Is a 6.5 PRC enough? Do I need a 7mm?

[Dan Carey]

Match bullets are made with straight walled jackets and pure lead. Hunting bullets are made with either a different jacket material or a tapered jacket with the addition of a lead hardener such as atimony.

 

[Lou270]

From what I think I have heard on the Hornady podcast, the eld-m was designed off the eld-x, but for higher accuracy. Hence the X that’s slightly lighter than its corresponding M, due to jacket thickness differences. Jacket is thinner on the M as it has less effect on accuracy that way.

Pretty sure Hornady doesn’t test production M’s in gel, so in theory they could vary in on animal performance. It probably doesn’t matter as the thinner jacket should upset more. For an M the failure could be too much upset and not enough penetration.

The jackets are straight taper on eldm vs tapered on eldx and eldx nose has deeper hollowpoint

Again see 43:40:

 

[Lou270]

Just out of curiosity, how much experience do you have shooting animals with match bullets? Or are you just "crowd sourcing" your information on their performance on animals?

The only pure “match bullet” I use is Hornady Black out of SFAR which I think is an AMAX. It has a reduced mv due to 16” barrel and not accurate enough to shoot far if wanted to. I have used Berger Hunting VLD a lot in 6.5,.27,7mm. I have not used eldm for the reasons I have described. The high BC is nice but the fact they are not designed to expand at low velocity nor hold together at high impact velocity limit their appeal to me when there are bullets that are designed to do so. If they were in the Hornady black ammo I use at the lowish MV would use them for pigs

Lou

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I recently shot my first Elk. The guide insisted I use a .30 cal instead of my 6.5 PRC. I obliged with my 30-06 Tikka. The big bull went 3 steps. Great day.

It started me thinking about cartridges. My 6.5 PRC is a Proof Elevation MTR 24" bbl. For me, It is the most accurate rifle I own. It loves the Berger 156 gr EOL that I purchased from Choice and achieves 3010 fps. It shoots UM loaded 147 ELD-m at 2975 fps. My Carbon Six 24" barreled 30-06 Tikka groups 165 gr Accubonds very well at 2940 fps and shoots Barnes 168 gr TTSX even faster at 3025 fps. My friend has a Tikka 24" 7mm Rem Mag that shoots factory 162 gr ELD-x at 2925 fps.

I realize I am comparing different bullets and factory ammo to semi-custom ammo but these are the cartridges I personally saw chronographed. After entering the info in a ballistics calculator, the 6.5 PRC, at 300 yards, has considerably more velocity then any of the others. It has more energy, less drop and less drift plus a higher sectional density. Because of the higher BC bullets the 6.5 PRC has an even bigger advantage at 400 and 500 yards.

Is the 6.5 PRC really the marginal cartridge for Elk simply because it is 6 gr less weight and .020 less diameter? Is the issue that most feel the 180 gr bullet in the 06 or the 7mm is a much better choice for bigger game?

The amount of animals we’ve seen that acted like that were struck by lightning from 143 ELDXs and 147 ELDMs makes it impossible to try and deny their viability as killing bullets on elk.

Does a 175 ELDX or 180 ELDM generally inflict a slightly more substantial wound if hit at the same impact speed? Usually yes.

Is it enough to matter and “sacrifice” shootability/shot spotting at realistic hunting yardages? Usually no.

I’d rock on with your 6.5PRC and if I was using a “guide” who reccomended a certain bullet diameter or cartridge I’d ignore them completely or find a new “guide”.

 

[Castle Rock]

Pretty sure Hornady doesn’t test production M’s in gel, so in theory they could vary in on animal performance. It probably doesn’t matter as the thinner jacket should upset more. For an M the failure could be too much upset and not enough penetration.

Wrong on both points.

 

[HandgunHTR]

Its apparent from reading these posts, the factory guys don't know anything about the bullets they make.

OMG! A bullet manufacturer that recommends using one bullet for one application and another for a different application? I couldn't think of a single reason why they would do that. /s

 

[Bluefish]

Wrong on both points.

So they test every production lot in gel? Why would they do that for a “target” bullet. I am sure they were tested during development, but why go to the expense for a use case that isn’t claimed by Hornady.

 

[Mtslackcountry]

Using balistic calculators and recoil #'s the 6.5 Prc is a great choice between the 2 calibers. However factory ammo and availabilty is a win for the 7mm rem mag. Also is lets consider the scenario where you have a jump shot at closer range (less than 100 yards) on a big muley or elk. I would rather a have more energy and a heavier bullet if I hit the animal with less than Ideal placement. Sure at 500 yards both calibers will perform the same if hit in the vitals. But what about a shoulder shot at 80 yards in the timber???

 

[Grizzle]

There is a ton of terminal ballistic testing of the eldm bullets in Hornadys law enforcement line. The information is not hard to get. The 147 eldm is a very consistent killing bullet from my experience and many others.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

But what about a shoulder shot at 80 yards in the timber???

Kneeling, unsupported shot at 120 yards, shooting through thick brush. Shot in the shoulder. Bull went 0 yards.

80 grain ELDX.




This is just one example of dozens and dozens and dozens of personal kills under 100 yard “thick timber” shots on deer and elk with “match” style bullets under 150 grains.

It’s one thing to theorize on the internet and another thing to go do it.

 

[Lou270]

Kneeling, unsupported shot at 120 yards, shooting through thick brush. Shot in the shoulder. Bull went 0 yards.

80 grain ELDX.

View attachment 906121


This is just one example of dozens and dozens and dozens of personal kills under 100 yard “thick timber” shots on deer and elk with “match” style bullets under 150 grains.

It’s one thing to theorize on the internet and another thing to go do it.

Eldx is not a match bullet. It is a hunting bullet. It is designed to expand at a lower impact velocity but it still has a thicker shank to ensure adequate penetration even if does not penetrate as deeply as other designs

Lou

 

[AkMtnRunner]

Match bullets with today’s high sectional density just aren’t the same creatures they were decades ago.

The 270 Win has long proved itself in Alaska with lighter bullets and spread across a wider area. If that could penetrate enough, surely the 6.5 PRC will.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Eldx is not a match bullet. It is a hunting bullet. It is designed to expand at a lower impact velocity but it still has a thicker shank to ensure adequate penetration even if does not penetrate as deeply as other designs

Lou

How many animals have you killed with ELDX, ELDM, and SSTs?

How many killing wounds have you observed with each in animals?

Again, it’s easy to theorize about it on the internet…

 

[Castle Rock]

Match bullets with today’s high sectional density just aren’t the same creatures they were decades ago.

The 270 Win has long proved itself in Alaska with lighter bullets and spread across a wider area. If that could penetrate enough, surely the 6.5 PRC will.

Match bullets of yesteryear were basically just 168 grain matchkings which were very inconsistent in their expansion characteristics due to a tightly closed nose and a core that went quite close to the tip.
Today’s match bullets feature better expansion by either using a tip to initiate expansion or in the case of Bergers a larger open space behind the tip, allowing the front of the bullet to collapse and expand.

 

[Lou270]

How many animals have you killed with ELDX, ELDM, and SSTs?

How many killing wounds have you observed with each in animals?

Again, it’s easy to theorize about it on the internet…

Lol. I always get a kick out you guys who think they shoot a lot more than everybody else. I own my own ranch and except for this year where got into fishing and not hunted much offseason, hunt pigs pretty much every weekend as there is not much else to do in the evenings. I test a lot of different combos including sst and eldx. And no I dont shoot eldms because I don’t trust them at the impact velocity of rounds I hunt with though would use them with slower rounds. The sst and eldx do what they are designed to do and I expect the eldm will as well which is why I don’t use them. Pigs are tough to find once they get in the thick stuff. The funny thing is guys who have little experience tend to think they know something special based on a few isolated examples but often make the most noise.

Lou

 

[Castle Rock]

Lol. I always get a kick out you guys who think they shoot a lot more than everybody else. I own my own ranch and except for this year where got into fishing and not hunted much offseason, hunt pigs pretty much every weekend as there is not much else to do in the evenings. I test a lot of different combos including sst and eldx. And no I dont shoot eldms because I don’t trust them at the impact velocity of rounds I hunt with though would use them with slower rounds. The sst and eldx do what they are designed to do and I expect the eldm will as well which is why I don’t use them. Pigs are tough to find once they get in the thick stuff. The funny thing is guys who have little experience tend to think they know something special based on a few isolated examples but often make the most noise.

Lou

So you haven’t use them but are an expert on them , but those of us who have shot dozens of game with them don’t know

 

[nm.otter]

From what I think I have heard on the Hornady podcast, the eld-m was designed off the eld-x, but for higher accuracy. Hence the X that’s slightly lighter than its corresponding M, due to jacket thickness differences. Jacket is thinner on the M as it has less effect on accuracy that way.

ISTR hearing that ELD-X came about once Hornady learned how many hunters had been killing stuff with ELD-Ms.

 

[Duh]

Eldx is not a match bullet. It is a hunting bullet. It is designed to expand at a lower impact velocity but it still has a thicker shank to ensure adequate penetration even if does not penetrate as deeply as other designs

Lou

Here’s a 108 eldm at close range. Not arguing for or against match bullets. That’s your decision to make. Just using it as an example.

Post in thread '6mm /.243 hunting success on Big Game'
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/6mm-243-hunting-success-on-big-game.284525/post-3808853

 

[rookieforever33]

Back to the OP question do you need to step up to 7prc from 6.5prc. You said the guide wanted a 30 cal minimum. The 6.5 and 7 are pretty close, and you stated you had a 30-06. Step up to a 338 or bigger. A heavy 338 cal has some ballistic advantages that can be said are worth the trade offs. Maybe even a 375 so you know easily which rifle to take or leave.

 

[Lou270]

So you haven’t use them but are an expert on them , but those of us who have shot dozens of game with them don’t know

No, but I am sure Hornady IS an expert on eldm so go by what they recommend. And if you have any reading retention I did not say they would not work just they are not designed to work at the extremes or within a defined performance window. If your shots fall in that range most bullets that expand work fine. This is an example of what experimenting with a lot of bullets will tell you.

Lou