Insulated pants outer layer vs mid layer

[silverbullet555]

I thought I had my decision made to go with a down mid layer puffy pant for added warmth when I need it.

I was at first lite yesterday and we talked a bit about puffy pants and the option of theirs to just zip over. Reality is I would likely only wear while glassing so zip over would be easier.

Obviously the FL and Kuiu are different, but in general. Any insight into outer insulated puffy pants vs insulated down/synthetic puffy mid layer.

Mostly, these will be sitting in the pack until I get cold. I like the lightness and packability of the down, but the convenience of zipping over instead of putting under.

Thoughts. Light down zip on outer layer pants?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[cornfedkiller]

Curious about this as well.

My question would be if you are only wearing them while stationary and glassing, why are the first lite the only ones you can wear on the outside? Why couldn't you wear down (Kuiu) ones on the outside?

 

[fngTony]

Curious about this as well.

My question would be if you are only wearing them while stationary and glassing, why are the first lite the only ones you can wear on the outside? Why couldn't you wear down (Kuiu) ones on the outside?

My thoughts as well, maybe we’re missing something in the question?

Silverbullet555 are you looking for more of an insulated hard shell type pant or bib?

 

[silverbullet555]

Curious about this as well.

My question would be if you are only wearing them while stationary and glassing, why are the first lite the only ones you can wear on the outside? Why couldn't you wear down (Kuiu) ones on the outside?

I'm not saying you can't wear them on the outside. In fact the fact they have no fly is even less of an issue if worn on the outside.

I do know the kuiu feel pretty thin on the fabric side. I didn't feel the fabric and the uncompahgre pantsx but I'm guessing it's a little tougher.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[silverbullet555]

My thoughts as well, maybe we’re missing something in the question?

Silverbullet555 are you looking for more of an insulated hard shell type pant or bib?

I'm looking for lightweight and packable to be worn generally when stationary and glassing. I was first focused on a puffy mid layer. Perhaps there are better options by expanding horizons to puffy being worn over instead of under.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[fngTony]

I'm looking for lightweight and packable to be worn generally when stationary and glassing. I was first focused on a puffy mid layer. Perhaps there are better options by expanding horizons to puffy being worn over instead of under.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

I’ve used the super down (pre ultra),kenai, kelvin and now UA down pants. The kelvin (older model) was the most durable but 22oz and took up a lot of space. The current kelvin is lighter and pretty sure it’s the same face fabric but I don’t know how warm. The sd is obviously the easiest to carry around and for a dryer climate like here in Colorado I’m not very concerned with getting them soaked. The kenai are a true midlayer and I wouldn’t put them in the same class as a true puffy pant (maybe for early fall). I probably would have kept the sd but I bought them used and too big. So now I have some from UA that have more fill than the super down, closer to the pro. Those with rain pants if needed for weather or abrasion. I’ll still fall back to my cheap snow pants for when it’s definitely cold and snow, not rain with a chance of snow. The snow pants are two in one for winter conditions and any time I can minimize my layers it’s much more comfortable.

I also use the peloton 200 zip off mostly for taking my summer pant into the fall but they also work for a base under any other combination.

For reference I don’t hold heat well so amount of warmth needed may very. The UA are about 4oz of 800fill down weighing 17oz with stuff sack. Packs to a hair bigger than a nalgene. As a weight weenie it’s a good compromise for me. Sorry for being long winded, hopefully this helps.

Edit: Thanks for the peloton shirts, easy & honest transaction.

 

[mcseal2]

I have used the Kuiu Kenai for the past few years. It is definitely a mid layer for me. It's pretty breathable and the only puffy pant I've used that I don't have to always take off to walk in for any distance. If I'm moving less than a half mile to a different vantage for example and not gaining a bunch of elevation I'd leave them on. They are not super warm but definitely help take the edge off, especially when used under a wind proof outer layer.

I wanted something more for longer colder sits and bought the Kuiu Superdown Pro pants this year. I used them for whitetail hunting during the December rifle season. For me they are definitely a pant you put on when you stop and take off when you move. They are much warmer and more wind resistant then the Kenai. Reviews showed they might be a bit more durable than the FL puffy pants which is why I chose them. I'm happy with them so far. They are a bit bulky in the pack but when I want more than the Kenai I'm ok with that.

 

[silverbullet555]

I have used the Kuiu Kenai for the past few years. It is definitely a mid layer for me. It's pretty breathable and the only puffy pant I've used that I don't have to always take off to walk in for any distance. If I'm moving less than a half mile to a different vantage for example and not gaining a bunch of elevation I'd leave them on. They are not super warm but definitely help take the edge off, especially when used under a wind proof outer layer.

I wanted something more for longer colder sits and bought the Kuiu Superdown Pro pants this year. I used them for whitetail hunting during the December rifle season. For me they are definitely a pant you put on when you stop and take off when you move. They are much warmer and more wind resistant then the Kenai. Reviews showed they might be a bit more durable than the FL puffy pants which is why I chose them. I'm happy with them so far. They are a bit bulky in the pack but when I want more than the Kenai I'm ok with that.

Do you wear them over your pants or as a mid layer?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[silverbullet555]

I’ve used the super down (pre ultra),kenai, kelvin and now UA down pants. The kelvin (older model) was the most durable but 22oz and took up a lot of space. The current kelvin is lighter and pretty sure it’s the same face fabric but I don’t know how warm. The sd is obviously the easiest to carry around and for a dryer climate like here in Colorado I’m not very concerned with getting them soaked. The kenai are a true midlayer and I wouldn’t put them in the same class as a true puffy pant (maybe for early fall). I probably would have kept the sd but I bought them used and too big. So now I have some from UA that have more fill than the super down, closer to the pro. Those with rain pants if needed for weather or abrasion. I’ll still fall back to my cheap snow pants for when it’s definitely cold and snow, not rain with a chance of snow. The snow pants are two in one for winter conditions and any time I can minimize my layers it’s much more comfortable.

I also use the peloton 200 zip off mostly for taking my summer pant into the fall but they also work for a base under any other combination.

For reference I don’t hold heat well so amount of warmth needed may very. The UA are about 4oz of 800fill down weighing 17oz with stuff sack. Packs to a hair bigger than a nalgene. As a weight weenie it’s a good compromise for me. Sorry for being long winded, hopefully this helps.

Edit: Thanks for the peloton shirts, easy & honest transaction.

Thanks for the insight.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Kotaman]

KUIU SD is tough to wear on the outside because they are FRAGILE. I've ruined two pairs wearing them while glassing on the outside. However, I still find them to be the best option for me.

 

[silverbullet555]

I think I am really looking for two separate things.

A kenai like pant that can be worn under pants for the day and a separate outer layer for glassing.

Perhaps the super down pro which is a bit more reinforced or something similar.

I do think the super down ultra isn't what I am looking for

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Muttly]

FL Unpronounceable puffy seems like it should check the boxes.. Was thinking about grabbing a pair myself, but apparently middle of winter is not a good time to keep insulated pants in stock...

 

[eoperator]

the uncompahgre pants work good for me. they are breathable so if you sweat a bit in them you will dry nicely, but for very cold temps or strong winds a shell to block the wind is needed

 

[akrdkill]

if weights not a big concern the military primaloft pants are great, a bit bulky but I think you could compress them down with a couple cinch straps....& there cheap, eBay

 

[silverbullet555]

the uncompahgre pants work good for me. they are breathable so if you sweat a bit in them you will dry nicely, but for very cold temps or strong winds a shell to block the wind is needed

I have the military pants and will get the modified to work until I find a mid layer active pant I like and perhaps an outer layer down pant.

Weight vs performance is important. Light weight is important, but only if it works for my needs. I know there are many options out there including some custom mid layer pants that can do me well. I have time to find them.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[ljalberta]

Have you looked into the options Nunatek can make for you? They could probably build you exactly what you're looking for.

 

[rbljack]

I bought the puffy pants as well last fall for my elk hunt. Rifle hunt in WY mid October. Well....it snowed on opening day pretty heavy followed by cold temps. I think it got down to the teen s overnight. I did not bring my FL long john bottoms (Allegany SP??) because I didn't want to sweat when hiking around. I put the puffy pants on 2 or 3 times during the hunt while glassing. and one night, I actually had them on in the bag because my pants were wet from snow up to the knees and I got cold at night. I had gaiters with me too, but the snow was knee deep in a few places. Long story short....I think they are worth the weight, and I liked them better than my long johns overall for a colder season rifle hunt.

 

[silverbullet555]

Have you looked into the options Nunatek can make for you? They could probably build you exactly what you're looking for.

Yep. They are high on the list, especially for a mid layer active puffy. I emailed them a while back and never heard back. I need to follow up.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[cornfedkiller]

I bought the puffy pants as well last fall for my elk hunt. Rifle hunt in WY mid October. Well....it snowed on opening day pretty heavy followed by cold temps. I think it got down to the teen s overnight. I did not bring my FL long john bottoms (Allegany SP??) because I didn't want to sweat when hiking around. I put the puffy pants on 2 or 3 times during the hunt while glassing. and one night, I actually had them on in the bag because my pants were wet from snow up to the knees and I got cold at night. I had gaiters with me too, but the snow was knee deep in a few places. Long story short....I think they are worth the weight, and I liked them better than my long johns overall for a colder season rifle hunt.

Which puffy pants do you have?

 

[JWP58]

I've worn arcteryx atom lt pants (full side zips) while moving around out at the range (running drills). Not as strenuous as hiking, but I've stayed warm down to 14 degrees. In moderate temps, you wont want to wear them while moving. I see no reason to wear puffy pants under your actual pants (maybe terrain like heavy brush, but that would probably require special brush resistant pants).

Puffy pants aren't a necessity, but they are light and really nice to have.