Insulated jackets that can rival a puffy?

[flyfisher117]

I want/need an insulated jacket for those cold days glassing. I have my eyes on a SG Gruman jacket. Before I purchased I wanted to reach out and see if there were any insulated jackets that could rival the Gruman without being puffy. This will be used in Idaho any time it's needed September through May.
My priorities

1) Packability, I run extremely hot hiking, I will be drenched in sweat short order. Then I will freeze my ass off sitting. What ever I chose will be in and out of my pack and maybe not even needed some days. The Gruman seems to be built for this.

2) Warmth I am after the best all around warmth I can get. The Gruman may be on the upper end of what I need.

3)Cost. The $350 for the Gruman is about all I am looking to spend.

4)Durability is sort of last on my list. Obviously I want quality but I do know I won't be busting brush in it. I hate to even mention durability. I just know every thread I have read turns into stories about someone's uncle sneezing too hard and blowing the feathers right out of their puffy jacket.

 

[Dos Perros]

If packability is #1, then the insulation of choice is down. I would say down also fits the bill for #2, best warmth to weight ratio available. Luckily the market provides lots of down options, and there are certainly better jackets than the Gruman sold for less.

For example, the Rab Electron Pro is a better jacket sold for less.

Rab Electron Pro Jacket - Men's - Clothing

Buy the Rab Electron Pro Jacket - Men's online or shop all Clothing from Backcountry.com.

www.backcountry.com

The Japanese Montbells are reported to be quite nice as well.

 

[flyfisher117]

If packability is #1, then the insulation of choice is down. I would say down also fits the bill for #2, best warmth to weight ratio available. Luckily the market provides lots of down options, and there are certainly better jackets than the Gruman sold for less.

For example, the Rab Electron Pro is a better jacket sold for less.

Rab Electron Pro Jacket - Men's - Clothing

Buy the Rab Electron Pro Jacket - Men's online or shop all Clothing from Backcountry.com.

www.backcountry.com

The Japanese Montbells are reported to be quite nice as well.

Thanks I've chased all the rabbit holes of non hunting specific jackets too. Without seeing them in person I've just decided to skip because I want to try them on before buying. Unless a killer sale pops up this weekend. So far they all fall in that $300-$400 range.

 

[TaperPin]

I grew up in a town of old school guys that didn’t trust any down insulating layers because wet down killed a few experienced local people back before my time. I didn’t even know anyone used puffies in the fall until my 30’s.

If you need breathability, nothing breaths better than fleece layers with a Goretex shell only if needed. Since we’ll before I was born, the mantra has always been to shed layers so you’re always slightly cold when gaining elevation to prevent sweat soaked layers. Heavy insulated shells make that harder than it needs to be and encourages folks to change layers less often, and many are nothing more than a puffy bonded to a shell.

Working outside in snow/sleet/freezing framing mountain vacation homes, ice fishing, elk hunting, peak bagging, etc., many of us don’t use or even own an insulated shell.

 

[flyfisher117]

I grew up in a town of old school guys that didn’t trust any down insulating layers because wet down killed a few experienced local people back before my time. I didn’t even know anyone used puffies in the fall until my 30’s.

If you need breathability, nothing breaths better than fleece layers with a Goretex shell only if needed. Since we’ll before I was born, the mantra has always been to shed layers so you’re always slightly cold when gaining elevation to prevent sweat soaked layers. Heavy insulated shells make that harder than it needs to be and encourages folks to change layers less often, and many are nothing more than a puffy bonded to a shell.

Working outside in snow/sleet/freezing framing mountain vacation homes, ice fishing, elk hunting, peak bagging, etc., many of us don’t use or even own an insulated shell.

I can wear nothing more than a t shirt and even in cool to cold Temps I will be sweating while hiking.

I have my base layers, mid layers, and Goretex shells figured out. They work great. Until I stop to sit down then I am sitting there shivering.

I'm after that layer of warmth that makes sitting on a wind swept Ridgeline tolerable.

 

[TaperPin]

I can wear nothing more than a t shirt and even in cool to cold Temps I will be sweating while hiking.

I have my base layers, mid layers, and Goretex shells figured out. They work great. Until I stop to sit down then I am sitting there shivering.

I'm after that layer of warmth that makes sitting on a wind swept Ridgeline tolerable.

If you’re sold on not adding thicker layers under the shell, there’s nothing I can add.

Good luck though - I’m the coldest in my circle and can relate to not liking to freeze.

 

[flyfisher117]

If you’re sold on not adding thicker layers under the shell, there’s nothing I can add.

Good luck though - I’m the coldest in my circle and can relate to not liking to freeze.

I do add thicker layers. It's just not enough or its too much and I end up with a pack that is over flowing with many different layers. I look like a walking yard sale of clothing trying to layer up and down. Just after an extremely packable and warm layer since it's the stationary sitting that i can not get the warmth I am after.

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

Nothing is going to be as packable/warm as down. Perhaps a jacket like the First Lite chamberlain, that is a mixture of synthetic and down, but it's not very packable.

 

[TaperPin]

Yes, thick fleece is ridiculously bulky - it makes my butt look fat.

In the coldest conditions I should have added, there’s no way I’d be warm without as much thought into lower body layers, which are a pain to add or take layers away from, but that’s just the way it is - side zippers on the shell helps regulate temps while moving. At work or on a snow machine I’ll wear insulated bibs, but in the field I treat Goretex rain pants as my outer layer, and might not even wear regular pants, just two layers of military weight polypro and two layers of thick fleece.

When glassing in the cold a big shot of calories also helps warm me up.

I’m also a big fan of the little thermarest squares that you sit on - getting the rear end off cold surfaces is worth it’s weight in gold.

 

[WanderingFarmer]

rival the Gruman without being puffy.

I'm a little perplexed by this - everything else you've written seems to suggest a down puffy jacket for cold glassing sessions. Seems like you probably have moisture management before sitting down to glass sorted out well enough. Are you looking for warmth without the bulk?

The Rab Electron Pro above is what I've got - I found it at backcountry.com for $275ish with shipping and tax last year during a sale and bought it with every intention of returning it when it didn't fit. Its euro sized, so check the size chart. I didn't return it - that coat is easily the best insulation layer I've ever owned. I got it in the khaki color and it blends incredibly well in a variety of terrain - concrete jungles to dark evergreens to dead grass.

The Grumman has a great reputation around here, and it seems well deserved. Since I couldn't put my hands on either, I gambled on the Rab and have been really happy with it.

This thread would have been helpful reading for me, had it been available when I made my choice: SG Grumman vs kifaru LPP vs Rab electron pro (or neutrino pro)?

 

[Nightstandx]

https://image.sportsmansguide.com/adimgs/l/7/711935i_ts.jpg

 

[Macintosh]

Whats the reason for wanting to avoid a puffy jacket?

Alluded to above, but a big part of staying warm is more than just a warm jacket. You lose heat through your head and hands about as much as your torso, so if trying to avoid a puffy jacket 1) put a warm neck gaiter and hat on. 2) wear mittens, not gloves 3) insulate yourself from anything that will conduct warmth away from your body—sit pad is a good call. 4) make certain you are dry—if you sweat, bring a dry baselayer top and change when you stop and are inactive. 5) warm liquids and eat. Or do the 1980’s ice climber schtick and do shots of olive oil before heading out for the day.

If you do all the above religiously you can extend your comfort without a puffy, but you still might need a puffy. Some people put out more heat than others, so if you just run cold, there is nothing better than a down puffy in terms of warmth while being packable and light. There are also many different weights of puffy jacket—so you might find that a thinner or thicker weight puffy works better for your combination of priorities. Better quality down (ie 850 or 900 fill versus 650 or 750 fill) will give you the same warmth with less puff…but it comes at a price.

 

[kpk]

Thanks I've chased all the rabbit holes of non hunting specific jackets too. Without seeing them in person I've just decided to skip because I want to try them on before buying. Unless a killer sale pops up this weekend. So far they all fall in that $300-$400 range.

Those Rab jackets are always ranked high in reviews and highly spoken of. Backcountry returns are easy enough that'd it be worth trying even for comparison if nothing else.

 

[flyfisher117]

I'm a little perplexed by this - everything else you've written seems to suggest a down puffy jacket for cold glassing sessions. Seems like you probably have moisture management before sitting down to glass sorted out well enough. Are you looking for warmth without the bulk?

Perplexed by what exactly?

Whats the reason for wanting to avoid a puffy jacket?

I'm not avoiding. I'm just questioning if there is any whizz bang new insulation layers I have not experienced before.


I don't follow trends in clothing. I don't really pay attention to clothing. I've been using the same layering system since I was a young teenager. A puffy coat is the only piece of clothing I have never owned. I had made my mind up that it would fit those key occasions I'm miserable in the field. Before i plopped down coin or a flat lander puffy coat I wanted to check if I was missing any other forms of insulated jackets that are packable.

 

[fngTony]

If packability is #1, then the insulation of choice is down. I would say down also fits the bill for #2, best warmth to weight ratio available. Luckily the market provides lots of down options, and there are certainly better jackets than the Gruman sold for less.

For example, the Rab Electron Pro is a better jacket sold for less.

Rab Electron Pro Jacket - Men's - Clothing

Buy the Rab Electron Pro Jacket - Men's online or shop all Clothing from Backcountry.com.

www.backcountry.com

The Japanese Montbells are reported to be quite nice as well.

Didn’t expect the first reply to take my answer .
Very nice jacket and well made. Size up though

 

[Beagle1]

The Rab will be slightly warmer than the Grumman but that’s to be expected since it has about 1 1/2 more ounces of down. The Rab also weighs about 6.7 more ounces than the Grumman.

 

[justinspicher]

Patagonia Men's Nano-Air® Insulated Hoody

Made to reduce layering changes, our Patagonia® Men's Nano-Air® Hoody dumps excess heat when you’re working hard and keeps you warm when you’re not.

www.patagonia.com

I have two of these, one is a blaze orange pullover and the other is a black full zip. Two of my favorite jackets.

I also have a couple of Enlightened Equipment puffy jackets, again, one is blaze orange and is a pullover and the other is a black full zip.

 

[WanderingFarmer]

Perplexed by what exactly?

I wasn’t sure I understood what you were looking for, but your explanation of wanting to make sure there was nothing better or newer makes total sense.

Good luck in your search!

 

[Dos Perros]

The Rab will be slightly warmer than the Grumman but that’s to be expected since it has about 1 1/2 more ounces of down. The Rab also weighs about 6.7 more ounces than the Grumman.

The Quantum Pertex Pro is allegedly more breathable as well. Manufacturer markets Quantum Pertex to ultralight gear, the Pro to expedition gear. I'd have to think the Pro is therefore more durable as well.

 

[flyfisher117]

Patagonia Men's Nano-Air® Insulated Hoody

Made to reduce layering changes, our Patagonia® Men's Nano-Air® Hoody dumps excess heat when you’re working hard and keeps you warm when you’re not.

www.patagonia.com

I have two of these, one is a blaze orange pullover and the other is a black full zip. Two of my favorite jackets.

I also have a couple of Enlightened Equipment puffy jackets, again, one is blaze orange and is a pullover and the other is a black full zip.

The nano air, that's the one I was reading about a few months ago. I couldn't find the thread and couldn't remember what it was called. How warm are they exactly? I hit up every hiking store in the area but none carried them, assuming the price made them a slow mover.

I wasn’t sure I understood what you were looking for, but your explanation of wanting to make sure there was nothing better or newer makes total sense.

Good luck in your search!

No worries. I guess I do actually own down, I forgot I bought a pair of the under armor down pants this last winter when they dropped to 80 bucks. I just haven't used them yet lol.