INDIANA...

[TK161BOONER]

I would agree with the OP, a longer season will only be worse for growing bigger deer.
The shorter the rifle season gives
deer a better opportunity at living longer.

 

[Kyguy]

I just don't get the medical limit or age limit for crossbows. It's stupid. I don't understand why the archery crowd is so hung up on it. If the rifle hunting crowd started saying a similar thing, like everybody needs to start rifle hunting with open sight rifles and if you want to use a scope then you need a note from your eye doctor saying that you're not good enough to see without one., people would think it's the most ridiculous statement they've ever heard. It's the same basic principle. No, rifle crowd says use what you want and have fun.

Or limit it to 1x scopes like some of the western states do for their black powder. Since somewhere along the line, people suddenly need 25x to shoot an animal at 150 yd. How many rifle hunters would there be then? Or If we really want to separate the serious hunters, do like they do overseas and you have to take a shooting test in order to get a hunting license. And that shooting test isn't off of a bench. And I can tell you right now that 90% of so-called serious hunters wouldn't get a hunting license if they had to take a shooting test.

I get it, you're wanting to get bigger trophy deer. The problem is you're in the minority. Most hunters don't want and don't care about having the biggest trophy. If it happens it happens, but they're not going to pass up opportunity. Most hunters are able to get too little time in the field as it is and aren't ready to eat tag soup.

 

[Honyock]

I just don't get the medical limit or age limit for crossbows. It's stupid. I don't understand why the archery crowd is so hung up on it. If the rifle hunting crowd started saying a similar thing, like everybody needs to start rifle hunting with open sight rifles and if you want to use a scope then you need a note from your eye doctor saying that you're not good enough to see without one., people would think it's the most ridiculous statement they've ever heard. It's the same basic principle. No, rifle crowd says use what you want and have fun.

Or limit it to 1x scopes like some of the western states do for their black powder. Since somewhere along the line, people suddenly need 25x to shoot an animal at 150 yd. How many rifle hunters would there be then? Or If we really want to separate the serious hunters, do like they do overseas and you have to take a shooting test in order to get a hunting license. And that shooting test isn't off of a bench. And I can tell you right now that 90% of so-called serious hunters wouldn't get a hunting license if they had to take a shooting test.

I get it, you're wanting to get bigger trophy deer. The problem is you're in the minority. Most hunters don't want and don't care about having the biggest trophy. If it happens it happens, but they're not going to pass up opportunity. Most hunters are able to get too little time in the field as it is and aren't ready to eat tag soup.

I agree. For the archery crowd that groans about crossbows, why stop there. Why not limit it to traditional long bows and not compound bows. Same argument. You can shoot a compound bow more easily (80% let off, sights, etc) and further than a traditional longbow. I've never understood why guys get so worked up about what someone else is doing. If you want to use a spear or a 50 BMG and its legal go for it. What Joe does or kills five miles from my land doesn't affect me at all. I don't "compete" against other hunters when I hunt.

 

[AvgOtdrsmnLf]

Two seasons - stick and string or firearm. Hunters choice on flavor of the day. There is no need to complicate this.

I mean, the need to complicate it would be to improve the deer herd age structure and experience in the woods.

Is looking at a season date list and following it really that complicated? Have you ever tried to hunt out west, sifting through that information and draw systems is complicated. Knowing what weapon you’re allowed to take afield on a given day is not.


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[Q_Sertorius]

I mean, the need to complicate it would be to improve the deer herd age structure and experience in the woods.

Is looking at a season date list and following it really that complicated? Have you ever tried to hunt out west, sifting through that information and draw systems is complicated. Knowing what weapon you’re allowed to take afield on a given day is not.


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Complicating it won’t achieve the goal you want.


“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[AvgOtdrsmnLf]

I just don't get the medical limit or age limit for crossbows. It's stupid. I don't understand why the archery crowd is so hung up on it. If the rifle hunting crowd started saying a similar thing, like everybody needs to start rifle hunting with open sight rifles and if you want to use a scope then you need a note from your eye doctor saying that you're not good enough to see without one., people would think it's the most ridiculous statement they've ever heard. It's the same basic principle. No, rifle crowd says use what you want and have fun.

Or limit it to 1x scopes like some of the western states do for their black powder. Since somewhere along the line, people suddenly need 25x to shoot an animal at 150 yd. How many rifle hunters would there be then? Or If we really want to separate the serious hunters, do like they do overseas and you have to take a shooting test in order to get a hunting license. And that shooting test isn't off of a bench. And I can tell you right now that 90% of so-called serious hunters wouldn't get a hunting license if they had to take a shooting test.

I get it, you're wanting to get bigger trophy deer. The problem is you're in the minority. Most hunters don't want and don't care about having the biggest trophy. If it happens it happens, but they're not going to pass up opportunity. Most hunters are able to get too little time in the field as it is and aren't ready to eat tag soup.

There is a clear indisputable difference between crossbows and vertical bows, a major one being the motion required to draw the bow as well as maintaining the draw position. I don’t care if people shoot deer with crossbows (I have done it), but to consider having separate seasons with the exception of medical dependency for a crossbow is not a radical concept as much as you want to portray it as one. Again, the idea is to reduce the effectiveness of hunters, myself included.



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[AvgOtdrsmnLf]

Complicating it won’t achieve the goal you want.


“Keep on keepin’ on…”

Reducing our effectiveness won’t allow deer to reach an older age?


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[AvgOtdrsmnLf]

I agree. For the archery crowd that groans about crossbows, why stop there. Why not limit it to traditional long bows and not compound bows. Same argument. You can shoot a compound bow more easily (80% let off, sights, etc) and further than a traditional longbow. I've never understood why guys get so worked up about what someone else is doing. If you want to use a spear or a 50 BMG and its legal go for it. What Joe does or kills five miles from my land doesn't affect me at all. I don't "compete" against other hunters when I hunt.

I’m not asking anyone to pass any deer and I agree people can use whatever weapon is legal… hence the conversation of changing what/when weapons are legal….

I always encourage people to shoot whatever makes them happy and I will gladly celebrate and help drag that deer out! Insinuating I am judging people is a lot different than wanting to reduce our effectiveness as hunters to better our experience.

Also, did you even bother reading the original post? I think it would be a really cool and unique attraction to offer an only Traditional (no cams/wheels or sights), very similar to how a muzzleloader season is usually offered separate from a firearm season.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Reducing our effectiveness won’t allow deer to reach an older age?


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If you want bucks to reach an older age, you have to focus on bag limits, not means and methods.

The only way to limit the number of bucks harvested is to put in low bag limits for bucks. After that, it’s a matter of understanding the psychology of the average hunter.

If everyone has two weeks of rifle season and two buck tags, most hunters will try to shoot two bucks in those two weeks. And there will be no incentive to be selective because the hunting pressure and competition will be high. People would rather go home with two spikes than not get a buck.

Longer seasons and low bag limits encourages selective behavior.


“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[AvgOtdrsmnLf]

If you want bucks to reach an older age, you have to focus on bag limits, not means and methods.

The only way to limit the number of bucks harvested is to put in low bag limits for bucks. After that, it’s a matter of understanding the psychology of the average hunter.

If everyone has two weeks of rifle season and two buck tags, most hunters will try to shoot two bucks in those two weeks. And there will be no incentive to be selective because the hunting pressure and competition will be high. People would rather go home with two spikes than not get a buck.

Longer seasons and low bag limits encourages selective behavior.


“Keep on keepin’ on…”

We are already a 1 buck state... Longer seasons means more opportunity with highly effective weapons, leading to overly efficient hunters. As is with our current setup (crossbows all throughout archery and a 2 week firearm season in the middle of the rut) we are removing the top tier deer year after year. And those top tier are mostly 3 1/2 or younger deer. Throughout my 10 properties scattered across 2 counties and sharing harvest information with the surrounding neighbors, almost every 3 1/2 yr old i know of is harvested by thanksgiving, as well as most of the bigger antlered 2 1/2 year olds, because hunters are so effective that if they want it, someone in the area will almost certainly kill it, and lets be honest, with trail cams and cell cams, there is rarely a deer out there that people don't know about or want to kill.

Most importantly, I don't blame them! They know what is in the area and a nice 135 inch 3 1/2 year old is the best available, so they want to have a successful season and pursue him. I do this! Nobody wants to just not shoot a deer year after year waiting for a mythical beast to magically appear, because realistically, with the current setup, the only way that is happening is if you are in special little pockets near protected areas (like nature preserves or parks) allowing deer to reach an older age. But, by putting ourselves at a little more of a disadvantage and letting some of those top tier deer win the back and fourth to survive year after year, the realistic expectation of hunters will continue to increase to match what the deer herd is producing.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

It sounds like you want to lower buck bag limits below one per hunter. I doubt that would be very popular with too many other hunters in your state.


“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[AvgOtdrsmnLf]

It sounds like you want to lower buck bag limits below one per hunter. I doubt that would be very popular with too many other hunters in your state.


“Keep on keepin’ on…”

I mean, how is that the conclusion you came to from all of that? You are the only one talking about bag limits.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I mean, how is that the conclusion you came to from all of that? You are the only one talking about bag limits.

If you want more bucks to survive 3-5 years, limiting means won’t do that. In the Information Age, informed hunters will always find the best deer. And skilled hunters will always find a way to kill the best deer they can find. The only way to limit that is to limit who can hunt and how many each can take. If you are already at one buck per hunter, you have to go lower that to grow more bucks.

I can tag out on bucks every year during muzzleloader season. The only thing that stops me is that I want to keep hunting during rifle season.

 

[TheWhitetailNut]

1. Indiana is already a Premiere destination, has been for a decade. There is a lot more that makes Iowa, Iowa than gun season. Don't move the gun season, I would support a shortening.

2. I don't give a crap about whether the equipment is equal, everyone chooses what they hunt with. Want to shoot a long bow, cool.. You get Long bow limitations, not special treatment.

3. Nonsense

4. Nonsense related to 3 nonsense

5. Leave it alone. It's one of the cheapest places to hunt multiple animals even as a non resident.

 

[TheWhitetailNut]

Yeah I understand that. Maybe a point system wouldn’t be needed. My anticipation was that, with the season/weapon changes, our deer age structure would improve, making Indiana more of a destination. If we could continue to not have a draw system that would be ideal as long as overcrowding doesn’t get too bad.


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The deer age structure would improve if you stop shooting little bucks like the one in your profile pic, now stop trying to legislate everyone else's choice to compensate for your lack of discipline.

Every man ought fix himself before trying to re-order the world.

 

[AvgOtdrsmnLf]

The deer age structure would improve if you stop shooting little bucks like the one in your profile pic, now stop trying to legislate everyone else's choice to compensate for your lack of discipline.

Every man ought fix himself before trying to re-order the world.

Haha, you got fired up in a hurry. I know I don't have to defend anything I have shot to you and you obviously have no intention of an enjoyable conversation, but it is always amusing to be reminded that the woods is filled with all kinds.

Actually that deer in my pic is a 3 1/2 year old in a reduction zone along a highway that had a pigment mutation and was fully spotted, making him really distinct and easy to follow since he was a little fork horn. As I have already said multiple times in this thread, which I am sure you took zero time to read, that is a great and typical "big" deer for that area. Between traffic hitting bucks and neighboring hunters, in the mile stretch I can hunt, I have never had a pic or known of a deer to make it to 4 1/2 since I have been hunting it the last 8 years. Btw, that is the only buck I have shot off of there during those eight years because of his uniqueness, and knowing the neighbor was after him. I have passed multiple 3 1/2 year olds in that stretch, never relocating any of them the following year, eventually finding out they were shot or hit by a car (one really awesome non-typical 3 1/2 yr old that I passed multiple times knowing he would absolutely blow up into a once in my lifetime type buck was hit by a car late November and died in the yard of one of my landowner yards) with a few turning into ghosts. One 3 1/2 year old 8 point I passed with an identifiable busted end main beam, really similar size to the one in my pic, was shot 3.2 miles away by another hunter I know (with a crossbow coincidentally enough).

A little embarrassing of you to have zero knowledge of the area, or me, and start throwing stones, but I shouldn't be surprised from a guy more worried about pinching his pennies for people to come hunt a state with a rut gun season, than try to understand a guy who is just trying to have conversation about the best way to increase our age structure so that the deer in my profile pic isn't the biggest and oldest buck running around.

Also, your comment of to legislate everyone to compensate for my lack of discipline is an equal amount of ignorant and stupid. I would follow the same rules as everyone. You know nothing of my discipline or how many bucks and of what size or age I have harvested in my life... the buck in my pic just happens to be one of my favorites because of both, his special spots and the memory of the hunt including my dad. So i think I'm fixed up alright with good intentions, and I don't want to re-order the world, just the state of Indiana deer seasons

 

[AvgOtdrsmnLf]

If you want more bucks to survive 3-5 years, limiting means won’t do that. In the Information Age, informed hunters will always find the best deer. And skilled hunters will always find a way to kill the best deer they can find. The only way to limit that is to limit who can hunt and how many each can take. If you are already at one buck per hunter, you have to go lower that to grow more bucks.

I can tag out on bucks every year during muzzleloader season. The only thing that stops me is that I want to keep hunting during rifle season.

I agree with a lot of what you said here, my only thought is that with less effective weapons, people may know about the deer but it will be harder for them to harvest them. I agree the skilled hunters would still be able to get them, but lets be realistic, skilled hunters are few and far between, and most of them are looking for the best challenge they can find, because the challenge is what makes you skilled in the first place.

 

[wind gypsy]

I just don't get the medical limit or age limit for crossbows. It's stupid. I don't understand why the archery crowd is so hung up on it. If the rifle hunting crowd started saying a similar thing, like everybody needs to start rifle hunting with open sight rifles and if you want to use a scope then you need a note from your eye doctor saying that you're not good enough to see without one., people would think it's the most ridiculous statement they've ever heard. It's the same basic principle. No, rifle crowd says use what you want and have fun.

Thing is people have been using scoped firearms in many states since they were available to the avg hunter. Archery seasons were created as a “primitive weapon” season much later. You don’t understand why archery hunters would prefer less pressured deer, less competition for them, fewer deer getting killed during archery season? Really?

I get it, you're wanting to get bigger trophy deer. The problem is you're in the minority. Most hunters don't want and don't care about having the biggest trophy. If it happens it happens, but they're not going to pass up opportunity. Most hunters are able to get too little time in the field as it is and aren't ready to eat tag soup.

I don’t disagree and that’s sad. What hunting has become.. “make it easy as possible for me to kill something.”

 

[TheWhitetailNut]

Haha, you got fired up in a hurry. I know I don't have to defend anything I have shot to you and you obviously have no intention of an enjoyable conversation, but it is always amusing to be reminded that the woods is filled with all kinds.

Actually that deer in my pic is a 3 1/2 year old in a reduction zone along a highway that had a pigment mutation and was fully spotted, making him really distinct and easy to follow since he was a little fork horn. As I have already said multiple times in this thread, which I am sure you took zero time to read, that is a great and typical "big" deer for that area. Between traffic hitting bucks and neighboring hunters, in the mile stretch I can hunt, I have never had a pic or known of a deer to make it to 4 1/2 since I have been hunting it the last 8 years. Btw, that is the only buck I have shot off of there during those eight years because of his uniqueness, and knowing the neighbor was after him. I have passed multiple 3 1/2 year olds in that stretch, never relocating any of them the following year, eventually finding out they were shot or hit by a car (one really awesome non-typical 3 1/2 yr old that I passed multiple times knowing he would absolutely blow up into a once in my lifetime type buck was hit by a car late November and died in the yard of one of my landowner yards) with a few turning into ghosts. One 3 1/2 year old 8 point I passed with an identifiable busted end main beam, really similar size to the one in my pic, was shot 3.2 miles away by another hunter I know (with a crossbow coincidentally enough).

A little embarrassing of you to have zero knowledge of the area, or me, and start throwing stones, but I shouldn't be surprised from a guy more worried about pinching his pennies for people to come hunt a state with a rut gun season, than try to understand a guy who is just trying to have conversation about the best way to increase our age structure so that the deer in my profile pic isn't the biggest and oldest buck running around.

Also, your comment of to legislate everyone to compensate for my lack of discipline is an equal amount of ignorant and stupid. I would follow the same rules as everyone. You know nothing of my discipline or how many bucks and of what size or age I have harvested in my life... the buck in my pic just happens to be one of my favorites because of both, his special spots and the memory of the hunt including my dad. So i think I'm fixed up alright with good intentions, and I don't want to re-order the world, just the state of Indiana deer seasons

What about my destruction of your self absorbed emotion driven proposal led you to believe a guy who puts out over $40k a year in tags and drawings alone is trying to "pinch pennies"? Your proposal has zero merit, and you have not given a single bit of evidence to support how this can help other hunters achieve their goals. Not everyone cares about Big bucks or maybe the biggest bucks. I sure love to chase them but that doesn't mean everyone else has to change what they love to make it easier for me.

Again, you want the laws changed to increase the age of bucks but you're wacking 3 year old's and making petty excuses for having done so.. At least the Spoon and Crockpot club guys practice what they preach. If you get em' early, fawns have spots too.

In your last paragraph you said my assertion was stupid, then proved it correct with the last line. Just admit, you don't kill big deer because even with "10 properties" you aren't good enough.

 

[AvgOtdrsmnLf]

What about my destruction of your self absorbed emotion driven proposal led you to believe a guy who puts out over $40k a year in tags and drawings alone is trying to "pinch pennies"? Your proposal has zero merit, and you have not given a single bit of evidence to support how this can help other hunters achieve their goals. Not everyone cares about Big bucks or maybe the biggest bucks. I sure love to chase them but that doesn't mean everyone else has to change what they love to make it easier for me.

Again, you want the laws changed to increase the age of bucks but you're wacking 3 year old's and making petty excuses for having done so.. At least the Spoon and Crockpot club guys practice what they preach. If you get em' early, fawns have spots too.

In your last paragraph you said my assertion was stupid, then proved it correct with the last line. Just admit, you don't kill big deer because even with "10 properties" you aren't good enough.

Bud, you didn't destruct anything.

As I have already said, I know not everyone cares about "big bucks" and they don't have to. Changing how our seasons are structured is not deciding what anyone is allowed to shoot. I do however think that it would make us less efficient and help increase our age structure. Nobody will ever complain about seeing and shooting big bucks, because while not everyone is willing to pass deer or only targets a mature buck, they would be extremely happy to pull the trigger on a great old deer.

What excuse was petty? Again, your ignorant assumptions of something you don't know about are really displaying your underwhelming character. You are really hung up on this profile buck which is a little funny. For some reason your counter to discussing the upside of changing season structure is to belittle a harvest I made and enjoyed. "Wacking 3 year olds" , I shot one that I really liked. Listen, I could post pictures of my bigger deer and talk down about your profile buck, but this isn't a dick measuring contest. It's just a conversation about how to help improve our hunting.

I want to make it harder to shoot 3 1/2 year olds, I am not sure why you are struggling so much wrap your head around that. I would follow the same rules. How does that mean it suddenly is easier for me? I didn't say I have access to 10 properties to brag, it was to help you understand the situation. I can not pursue what is not there. Across those properties I did have one 4 or 5 year old that I knew of, hunted, and shot with my bow this year. So again, it isn't that I suck as a hunter, it's that the experience for everyone involved would benefit.