INDIANA...

[AvgOtdrsmnLf]

I’m happy with the way IN regs/seasons are now. I think it was a great move when they went from allowing 2 bucks to 1 yrs back.
I’m honestly surprised there are that many non resident hunters coming to IN.

I agree, going to 1 buck was a good start.

What weapons do you usually hunt with and what age class bucks are you normally harvesting or seeing? (If even really you care about that. I know some people just enjoy harvesting deer, which is totally fine!)

For me, across my 10ish properties running cams and stand time, big 3 1/2 is the top end with the majority being harvested by neighbors or myself. Very very seldom do I know of, get pictures, or see bucks at 4 1/2 or older. My opinion was that changing those seasons some would make us a little less effective as hunters, and help allow some more bucks to make it through the season and establish a more balanced age structure, making us love to hunt Indiana even more.


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[Honyock]

I agree, going to 1 buck was a good start.

What weapons do you usually hunt with and what age class bucks are you normally harvesting or seeing? (If even really you care about that. I know some people just enjoy harvesting deer, which is totally fine!)

For me, across my 10ish properties running cams and stand time, big 3 1/2 is the top end with the majority being harvested by neighbors or myself. Very very seldom do I know of, get pictures, or see bucks at 4 1/2 or older. My opinion was that changing those seasons some would make us a little less effective as hunters, and help allow some more bucks to make it through the season and establish a more balanced age structure, making us love to hunt Indiana even more.


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What do you think is the reason why you are not seeing deer over 3.5? I don't hunt in Indiana and not questioning your statement, just curious as to why you're not seeing older deer. We obviously don't have as cold of winters in Oklahoma that you do in Indiana, but on my place, we don't shoot anything 3.5 or younger.

 

[Kyguy]

I've hunted Indiana once, so far. With the decreasing numbers of hunters in general and the absolute difficulty in actually finding places (as an individual) to hunt ANYWHERE without paying an outfitter of some sort, I'm not really in favor of many increased regulations for general deer hunting in any state. Not a fan of draws or point systems. I had been in the yearly draw for elk in KY for over 20 years without being drawn before I stopped paying the $10 fee for it. It's such an issue in KY that now there's a special legacy draw for people who've been in it forever and never been drawn... yet I personally know 4 people who've been drawn multiple times over the last 15 years. Tell me that system doesn't work correctly without telling me it doesn't work correctly.

I'm also not really of fan of a bunch of mini equipment specific seasons within the hunting season. Archery is blanket season, all of it is fine, there's no reason to differentiate between them. Crossbow and compound bow, one is neither more accurate nor offers more range to a shooter competent with their use. Traditional is of course more of a challenge, but it shouldn't get any special treatment, it's their choice to hunt that way. If that's the case, then people who hunt with handguns should have their own special start to the season as compared to rifles, right? Nope. I'd make the seasons as this and keep it simple (no matter the state): Archery, modern firearms (which would include smokeless muzzleloaders), and a black powder season instead of "muzzleloader", which if you want to use 777 in your smokeless, that's fine, but no smokeless. I'd also be ok with black powder cartridge weapons during black power season.

People have to realize that the majority of deer hunters ARE NOT trophy hunters and they're never going to be. For every ONE person who'll shoot nothing but a booner, there are 20 others that are just out for some venison and enjoying the outdoors. Most states want to manage the herd, not necessarily the quality of the bucks, and I'm ok with that. That's why many states have firearms season during the rut. Truly, with so many states talking about the doe to buck ratios being off, if they're going to change a rule, make a rule that you can't shoot a buck until you've taken a doe. Those ratios would get straightened out more quickly. I have some friends who go years between bucks because they "can't shoot one unless it's bigger than the last one I got", but then they also bitch about so many does on their land eating the food plots and bait stations because they won't shoot the does.

 

[AvgOtdrsmnLf]

What do you think is the reason why you are not seeing deer over 3.5? I don't hunt in Indiana and not questioning your statement, just curious as to why you're not seeing older deer. We obviously don't have as cold of winters in Oklahoma that you do in Indiana, but on my place, we don't shoot anything 3.5 or younger.

Well, at least in my area, I think hunters are too effective. Most parcels are 80 acres or under, and almost every piece is hunted. Crops come down in October and the deer become really exposed. Crossbows have exploded in popularity making historically only “gun hunters” now take to the woods during archery with an effective range of 60 yards and beyond. Then rifle opens mid November during the rut and the deer are hammered. After thanksgiving bucks of any size are almost nonexistent on my cameras. I will usually know of a couple decent 2 1/2 year olds but having a 3 1/2 or older still alive in December is really rare for me.


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[Maverick1]

Yep, as season is winding down it is just my thoughts about how to help create some better experiences in the Hoosier state. My intention was to see if other people feel the same or different, and just engage in conversation with some like minded people.

My experiences are just anecdotal and I understand that. I hunt northern Indiana ag land with lots of segregated parcels consisting of smaller sized wood blocks.

But, to answer your question, if every person loved it then idk what the next step would be, but at least I would have started other people thinking about ways we could improve, and that would be a step in the right direction. But, maybe everyone hates my thoughts and just loves hammering 2 1/2 yr olds with the most efficient weapon that the state will allow, in which case I will just go crawl back into my hole. I just figured this would be a good place to start figuring that out.


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[AvgOtdrsmnLf]

I've hunted Indiana once, so far. With the decreasing numbers of hunters in general and the absolute difficulty in actually finding places (as an individual) to hunt ANYWHERE without paying an outfitter of some sort, I'm not really in favor of many increased regulations for general deer hunting in any state. Not a fan of draws or point systems. I had been in the yearly draw for elk in KY for over 20 years without being drawn before I stopped paying the $10 fee for it. It's such an issue in KY that now there's a special legacy draw for people who've been in it forever and never been drawn... yet I personally know 4 people who've been drawn multiple times over the last 15 years. Tell me that system doesn't work correctly without telling me it doesn't work correctly.

I'm also not really of fan of a bunch of mini equipment specific seasons within the hunting season. Archery is blanket season, all of it is fine, there's no reason to differentiate between them. Crossbow and compound bow, one is neither more accurate nor offers more range to a shooter competent with their use. Traditional is of course more of a challenge, but it shouldn't get any special treatment, it's their choice to hunt that way. If that's the case, then people who hunt with handguns should have their own special start to the season as compared to rifles, right? Nope. I'd make the seasons as this and keep it simple (no matter the state): Archery, modern firearms (which would include smokeless muzzleloaders), and a black powder season instead of "muzzleloader", which if you want to use 777 in your smokeless, that's fine, but no smokeless. I'd also be ok with black powder cartridge weapons during black power season.

People have to realize that the majority of deer hunters ARE NOT trophy hunters and they're never going to be. For every ONE person who'll shoot nothing but a booner, there are 20 others that are just out for some venison and enjoying the outdoors. Most states want to manage the herd, not necessarily the quality of the bucks, and I'm ok with that. That's why many states have firearms season during the rut. Truly, with so many states talking about the doe to buck ratios being off, if they're going to change a rule, make a rule that you can't shoot a buck until you've taken a doe. Those ratios would get straightened out more quickly. I have some friends who go years between bucks because they "can't shoot one unless it's bigger than the last one I got", but then they also bitch about so many does on their land eating the food plots and bait stations because they won't shoot the does.

Well using KY elk draw as a comparison is probably not the best example, but I can understand the dislike of points and draws.

It sounds like you are more in favor of Opportunity than Quality, which I totally respect and appreciate your perspective!

I guess my main reason for wanting different seasons is because of how effective we as hunters have become. I disagree some on the comparison of crossbows and compounds. A crossbow is more effective with a lot less preparation required. I hunt some reduction zone, which is earn a buck, and a few years ago I had a nice buck consistently on camera but didn’t have a doe harvested yet after several hunts so I decided to stop messing around. I shot my dad’s Raven 3 times, headed to a standing bean field, and heart shot a doe at 67 yards. That would be an incredible shot with a compound after a lifetime of practice. Another huge advantage is that a crossbow does not require any motion (drawing the bow) before shooting. Likewise, a compound is a huge advantage over traditional. I understand it is a persons choice to use traditional, but how cool if it was its own season!


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[Honyock]

Here's the truth on crossbows. They are easier to shoot and therefore inherently more accurate for the average hunter to shoot compared to longbows. Personally, I would never pull the trigger on my crossbow at a deer more that 45 yards away and I've been whacking deer with a crossbow for the past 10 years (whacked two does on Friday). Too much can go wrong while the bolt is in the air and I have a responsibility to harvest that animal in the quickest and most efficient way that I can. IMHO, shots should be limited to the same distance that you would shoot a compound bow.

Since they are inherently more accurate, there are also less wounded/never recovered deer with crossbows than compound bows. Unfortunately, not all longbow hunters spend the time to become proficient with their bows. They're the "close enough" crowd ("I hit a paper plate at 20 yards") that would be better off with a crossbow in their hands instead of gut shooting a deer they never find. The numbers show that since 2011 (the year before crossbows were legalized in Indianna) the actual harvest numbers in Indiana have went down from 129,018 in 2011-12 to 121,282 in 2023-24 so I don't think crossbows are the issue.

I personally think that giving hunters more opportunities to hunt contributes to less young deer getting shot. Instead of "I've only got a week to kill my buck" and shoots the first forky he sees so he can say "I got my buck", maybe he's more selective because he knows that he's got the time to find a better buck. Oklahoma legalized crossbow much to the chagrin of longbow hunters, expanded the hunting season and bag limit (6 deer, only two can be antlered) and now per the National Deer Association report, 71% of bucks killed in Oklahoma are 3.5+ (#4 state for highest percentage of 3.5+ bucks harvested). Hunters figured out that does eat better than bucks and I don't have to shoot the first buck I see.

 

[AvgOtdrsmnLf]

[QUOTE="Honyock, post: 3958994, member:

Since they are inherently more accurate, there are also less wounded/never recovered deer with crossbows than compound bows. Unfortunately, not all longbow hunters spend the time to become proficient with their bows. They're the "close enough" crowd ("I hit a paper plate at 20 yards") that would be better off with a crossbow in their hands instead of gut shooting a deer they never find. The numbers show that since 2011 (the year before crossbows were legalized in Indianna) the actual harvest numbers in Indiana have went down from 129,018 in 2011-12 to 121,282 in 2023-24 so I don't think crossbows are the issue.

I personally think that giving hunters more opportunities to hunt contributes to less young deer getting shot. Instead of "I've only got a week to kill my buck" and shoots the first forky he sees so he can say "I got my buck", maybe he's more selective because he knows that he's got the time to find a better buck.[/QUOTE]

I somewhat agree about crossbows wounding less deer, because yes when used ethically you’re right, but that’s not always the case. Crossbows vary so much between models. Guys with their $200 killer instinct think they can match the performance of a $2,000 raven. When I shot my doe with a raven, it was on a tripod, rock steady, and that bolt arrived before she knew anything was up, but as I’ve matured I can probably agree I wouldn’t take the shot, although the equipment proved capable. However, within the last 5 years I have had 2 bucks that I know of be injured by neighbors using crossbows. But I know wounding deer is a part of hunting and nobody ever tries to do it on purpose and those cases are the exceptions. Ultimately it comes back to the hunter staying within the specific weapons capabilities while trying to minimize mistakes.

Those harvest numbers are interesting and I think they could be interpreted a couple different ways. Some things that come to my mind…
1. When did IN move to only online checkin? I think (know several) people do not check their deer in and process them their self. The old system of having to go to a check station and obtain your metal tag probably helped keep people more honest. Plus I miss getting to see all the deer shot in the area .
2. Harvest could be reducing because our deer numbers are reducing because of how effective we have become with our weapons combined with some death causing diseases such as ehd. Maybe people are concerned and are showing some restraint and not filling every tag they possibly can.
3. Crossbows have allowed “gun hunters” to now hunt for months rather than weeks. People who used to only hunt 1 property have now branched out to obtain more permission or leases since they have more time to hunt, and their harvests (say 1 buck and 2 does) are spread across multiple properties rather than shooting those 3 deer on just their one property, while somebody else would have been hunting the now leased or permission property and harvesting deer there. Extrapolate that across the state and I could see how it would lead to a reduction in harvest numbers.


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[Kyguy]

"It sounds like you are more in favor of Opportunity than Quality, which I totally respect and appreciate your perspective!"

Up until a couple of years ago, I probably would have been much closer to the Quality category. Here's what changed my mind a bit. I was hunting in an urban area, we had a couple of bucks on camera, one that would be pushing the upper 130's, maybe even in the 140" range. I was out in the blind one rainy afternoon, that looked down an old road lane to the left and over a hollow to the front and right. I caught something out of the corner of my eye and looked down the lane. The deer had stepped across the lane and had his head in a bush that I'd sprayed with Tink's. I actually had to lean way back in my seat to see his head, and all I could literally was part of the rack moving as he sniffed the bush. I had about 10 seconds to decide to shoot and had a clear shot at his shoulder, but when I was pulling the trigger, I was thinking the whole time that I hoped it was the bigger deer we'd seen. I was one of those scenarios that if I let him walk past the camera and he was the bigger deer, I'd be pissed, and if he was the smaller deer, and I'd shot him, I'd be pissed. When I walked up on him, he was obviously one of the smaller bucks, and I would have let him walk in hopes of one of the neighbor's kids getting a crack at him.

The processor was literally minutes away, so my friend and I tossed him in the truck and ran up the road. There were probably 12 or 15 other people there dropping off or picking up. When we pulled him out of the truck, everyone congratulated me on such a nice buck. Guys old enough to be my dad (I'm 48) were like wow, I've never seen one that nice in how ever many years of hunting. It was at that moment that it really hit me that there were so many people that loved to hunt but would possibly never see a buck like that in their lifetime. Let me put it in perspective, it was a 9pt and dressed 120lbs and when we scored the rack, it was 109". He was pretty but not a what a trophy hunter would consider a quality buck.

So, after that epiphany, I'm definitely closer to the opportunity side of the debate. Each person decides what their trophy is, and if I'm traveling to hunt, I'm not that worried about a monster anymore, I'm content with a buck that's a representative trophy of the area that I'm hunting, and if it's a 100" buck, that's cool, or if it's a 150" buck, that's cool too. My biggest is just under 150" and he's the second largest buck I've laid eyes on in 30 years of hunting...and for 25 years of that, I was only shooting does or a legitimate trophy buck. The largest I've ever seen was the next year, out of the same stand, and fluffed the shot at 220 yds in bad wind in a swaying tree, going right over his back. He would have been between 180"-200", because he made my 150" look tiny. I fully realize that there's a very good chance that I may never see another buck the size of either of those in my lifetime. I'm ok with that, because I am aware that I had an opportunity that many, if not most, hunters will never have. I'm content with whatever the hunting gods decide to bless me with at any given moment. Would I shoot every 100" deer that walks out? Probably not. But I'd rather let other hunters have the chance to shoot whatever makes them happy and not have to be concerned about judgment from other hunters.

 

[Sadie]

I think residents should pay $500.00 for a season license and no nonresident hunting. This would give dnr funds needed to operate and we would not have to hear resident hunters butch about nonresident hunters that are paying 10 times as much for a license.

 

[JoeB]

I like shortening the gun season, this would help more than anything . I do NOT like your proposal for archery. You would see a ton of people buying stick bows for a chance at a velvet deer and way more of them won't put the time in to practice enough to be proficient, leading to wounded animals. And the crossbow thing is limiting people who may have issues drawing a compound just so compound shooters get first choice, and more hunting time. Im an older hunter who loves bow season more than any season and have problems with my abused shoulders limiting the days I'm ok drawing a bow. With your plan, I might get a few good days to hunt with the compound but be sidelined for most of October waiting for November so I could use the crossbow on bad days. Why should you get more days to hunt than me?? That's just my opinion.

 

[AvgOtdrsmnLf]

I like shortening the gun season, this would help more than anything . I do NOT like your proposal for archery. You would see a ton of people buying stick bows for a chance at a velvet deer and way more of them won't put the time in to practice enough to be proficient, leading to wounded animals. And the crossbow thing is limiting people who may have issues drawing a compound just so compound shooters get first choice, and more hunting time. Im an older hunter who loves bow season more than any season and have problems with my abused shoulders limiting the days I'm ok drawing a bow. With your plan, I might get a few good days to hunt with the compound but be sidelined for most of October waiting for November so I could use the crossbow on bad days. Why should you get more days to hunt than me?? That's just my opinion.

I can see your point about people injuring deer with traditional equipment, but I also think the same could be said for all weapons. People get a savage axis in their hands and think they are Chris Kyle Slinging lead at 500 yards. Same with cheap crossbows and people trying to use them well beyond the equipment's capability. It always falls back on the responsibility of the hunter to be as ethical as possible, regardless of the weapon in their hand.

Also I think that with separating the different archery "types", we could bring back our old rule of allowing crossbows during Compound season with a doctors note or beyond an age mark (Maybe 60 would be a fair age).

 

[JoeB]

I can see your point about people injuring deer with traditional equipment, but I also think the same could be said for all weapons. People get a savage axis in their hands and think they are Chris Kyle Slinging lead at 500 yards. Same with cheap crossbows and people trying to use them well beyond the equipment's capability. It always falls back on the responsibility of the hunter to be as ethical as possible, regardless of the weapon in their hand.

Also I think that with separating the different archery "types", we could bring back our old rule of allowing crossbows during Compound season with a doctors note or beyond an age mark (Maybe 60 would be a fair age).

I see your points on all weapons being wounding weapons when not used properly. But separation of this type ultimately it will divide an already divided group further. It puts one group into a mindset of I’m superior I got what I wanted and first choice and others feeling inferior and the division will only grow between groups that should unit to help our passion to hunt grow and more able to stand up to the anti faction that wants us all to stop hunting.

 

[AvgOtdrsmnLf]

I see your points on all weapons being wounding weapons when not used properly. But separation of this type ultimately it will divide an already divided group further. It puts one group into a mindset of I’m superior I got what I wanted and first choice and others feeling inferior and the division will only grow between groups that should unit to help our passion to hunt grow and more able to stand up to the anti faction that wants us all to stop hunting.

Well either way, somebody is always getting what they want lol. My idea for the changing of the seasons isn't so much about what will be best for me, rather, create a unique season opportunity with traditional equipment and also make hunters less efficient so we can improve our age structure. Everybody wants to shoot older bigger deer, some may not being willing to hold out or pass younger deer (which is totally fine!), but they would be over the moon to shoot a 5 1/2 yr old 170" buck if it stepped out. We have the ability to create that scenario more frequently, but it will require the hunters of IN be more willing to decrease our effectiveness. Bettering the experience for all outdoorsman will unite us.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

If you want hunters to be picky then lower the bag limits for bucks and extend the season as long as possible. Make it as easy as possible for hunters to get out and ethically take what they want. A short season leads to hurried decisions since no one wants to eat tag soup.

If the state wants to control the deer population, then generous bag limits for does will do that.

Bow season makes sense from a public safety perspective when there is foliage on the trees. Once the foliage is off the trees, then firearms season should start. Generally speaking, if September and October were bow season and November and December were rifle season, you would probably achieve something closer to what you want.

Just be aware that not everyone shares your objective of only shooting mature deer. There are always going to be hunters who just want to shoot “a buck.”


“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[AvgOtdrsmnLf]

If you want hunters to be picky then lower the bag limits for bucks and extend the season as long as possible. Make it as easy as possible for hunters to get out and ethically take what they want. A short season leads to hurried decisions since no one wants to eat tag soup.

If the state wants to control the deer population, then generous bag limits for does will do that.

Bow season makes sense from a public safety perspective when there is foliage on the trees. Once the foliage is off the trees, then firearms season should start. Generally speaking, if September and October were bow season and November and December were rifle season, you would probably achieve something closer to what you want.

Just be aware that not everyone shares your objective of only shooting mature deer. There are always going to be hunters who just want to shoot “a buck.”


“Keep on keepin’ on…”

Hmm that's an interesting view on things. Again, i think it goes back to limiting the effectiveness as hunters more so than the psychology of people feeling rushed to harvest an animal. Whether gun season is 2 weeks or 2 months, there will be a point where the close of season is approaching and some people will feel the need to pull the trigger on whatever deer they can... making the highly effective gun season 2 months long through November (the rut) and December would be a sure fire way to further demolish the age structure.

Killing deer with a rifle is extremely easy and efficient, allowing it for 2 months would be fun for about 1 or 2 years, until we find ourselves chasing elusive 2 1/2 year old 100" deer that weigh 125 pounds us the upside of what you will encounter in the woods. I think we would see the experience of deer hunting in Indiana suffer for all involved.

People may not share an objective of ONLY shooting mature deer, but everyone daydreams and wants to shoot big antlered tank bodied deer. Nobody would complain about harvesting bigger older deer, "meat hunters" included.

 

[AvgOtdrsmnLf]

I’ve lived in IN my whole life and never deer hunted it. I cross the river into IL where we have land and way more access due to both my mom and dad being from there.

Your gun season length couple with now allowable center fires is more of a hindrance than the season timing IMO. Is it too early? Sure but you have almost a month straight of gun bunting when you include muzzleloader.

In IL we get 7 days with an additional 4 days for muzzleloader and some shoulder antlerless seasons…. And we can only use shotguns/ML and now straightwall

I agree with all of that! If I had my perfect choice, I would follow Iowa: remove center fire rifles, shorten firearms, and move the season to December. All would help lessen our effectiveness and create some good enough quality that you would finally want to start hunting your home state.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

If you can only legally take one buck in a four month long season, then you have every incentive to be picky. And if you get desperate at the end of the season and shoot a little buck, you still only killed one buck.

You also have to account for the fact that most hunters just aren’t that skilled. A lot of deer get wounded by hunters operating outside the bounds of their skill. That’s especially true of “harder” methods. Mortally wounded deer that aren’t recovered are still dead, but most hunters won’t count that as a punched tag. Make it easier to kill deer and you get more recovered dead deer. The bag limit being low makes up for the relative ease of the kill and the length of the season.


“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[AvgOtdrsmnLf]

If you can only legally take one buck in a four month long season, then you have every incentive to be picky. And if you get desperate at the end of the season and shoot a little buck, you still only killed one buck.

You also have to account for the fact that most hunters just aren’t that skilled. A lot of deer get wounded by hunters operating outside the bounds of their skill. That’s especially true of “harder” methods. Mortally wounded deer that aren’t recovered are still dead, but most hunters won’t count that as a punched tag. Make it easier to kill deer and you get more recovered dead deer. The bag limit being low makes up for the relative ease of the kill and the length of the season.


“Keep on keepin’ on…”

I don't think mortally wounded deer are the cause of our lack of age (is definitely something to take into consideration though), but rather the inability of 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 yr old bucks to survive the season. I understand everyone only gets to shoot one buck, but such an extended and efficient season will lead to a substantial reduction in the amount of those 2 and 3 year old deer being able to survive to the next season. The lack of difficulty and increased efficiency would lead to a lot more filled buck tags on "nice immature" deer and move us in the opposite direction of improving to a healthy age structure.

 

[Wildone]

Two seasons - stick and string or firearm. Hunters choice on flavor of the day. There is no need to complicate this.