I’m glad western hunting is complicated.

[SDHNTR]

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Don’t even bother showing him the mule deer numbers! He thinks they’re in great shape.

 

[Stickmark]

In Arizona, it is amazing how few mule deer can be in a vast area, by midwest-non Ozark standards. There are now limits to archery, in AZ, and once that quota is met, the unit shuts down the following Weds. Coues are relatively unaffected in southern units, but mule deer are rather protected by this measure.

 

[svivian]

Don’t even bother showing him the mule deer numbers! He thinks they’re in great shape.

I know I shouldn’t even bother but for others it shows some perspective

 

[Szwampdonkey]

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Elk populations are on the RISE not decline. You’re welcome.

 

[KurtR]

It’s never really has been hard past generations just like telling the next one how hard it was. My dad walked to school up hill both ways in asshole deep snow every day is comparable to this thread.

 

[cnelk]

Elk populations are on the RISE not decline. You’re welcome.

If you hunted elk 20 years ago in Colorado, you'd know what having a lot of elk was like.

 

[Dwnw/theAltitudesickness]

Don't think the regs/ rules discrepancy between states is great for someone new. State agencies, gohunt, etc provide some amount of information that is easily understood, while other parts is more complicated. Living in a new state and talking with those who really understand their home state regs is one of the fastest ways for me to have learned about a new state.

To me the confusion is evident by the number of hunting application services out there for people who are unsure.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

If you hunted elk 20 years ago in Colorado, you'd know what having a lot of elk was like.

Straight from CPW on Elk:

2018 Post Hunt population 286,680
2019 Post Hunt population 292,760
2020 Post Hunt population 293,590
2021 Post Hunt population 308,901

So, it appears to me that 1. Elk numbers are on the rise, 2. There are plenty of Elk to hunt still as they aren’t going extinct, and 3. There are still plenty of places to hunt them.

If you want pre man Elk numbers then i don’t know what to tell you but it seems guys think they are declining, and that’s false. I mean they had all the way back to 2015 on the site and said there were 275,880 back then so how many were there 20 years ago? You telling me there were a couple hundred thousand more than the last estimate of 308,901? Either way, the data show Elk populations are in the rise not decline. Update, i found 2005 Elk population estimate was 258,370 Elk. Maybe i’m missing something but that seems like there were way LESS Elk 20 years ago.

My original point before the chuckleheads chimed in was there are still plenty of animals to hunt and plenty of land to do it. Some could call that my opinion but i call it a fact.

 

[cnelk]

Straight from CPW on Elk:

2018 Post Hunt population 286,680
2019 Post Hunt population 292,760
2020 Post Hunt population 293,590
2021 Post Hunt population 308,901

So, it appears to me that 1. Elk numbers are on the rise, 2. There are plenty of Elk to hunt still as they aren’t going extinct, and 3. There are still plenty of places to hunt them.

If you want pre man Elk numbers then i don’t know what to tell you but it seems guys think they are declining, and that’s false. I mean they had all the way back to 2015 on the site and said there were 275,880 back then so how many were there 20 years ago? You telling me there were a couple hundred thousand more than the last estimate of 308,901? Either way, the data show Elk populations are in the rise not decline. Update, i found 2005 Elk population estimate was 258,370 Elk. Maybe i’m missing something but that seems like there were way LESS Elk 20 years ago.

My original point before the chuckleheads chimed in was there are still plenty of animals to hunt and plenty of land to do it. Some could call that my opinion but i call it a fact.

https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Hunting/BigGame/Colorado_Big_Game_Population_Status_and_Management_Summary2_2020.pdf

"Colorado’s statewide elk population was at its peak in 2001. Additional cow (female) licenses were used to reduce elk populations to Herd Management Plan (HMP) population objectives. Elk populations are now stable, but at a lower population size. CPW has compensated for declining calf ratios in the southern half of the state by significantly reducing the number of cow licenses issued."


"Elk Summary
1. Colorado’s elk population peaked at 305,000 in 2001. 2. The 2018 winter elk population estimate of 287,000 elk is just over the sum of Colorado’s individual Herd Management Plan (HMP) population objective ranges for elk statewide of 233,000-282,000 for all 42 elk herds combined (Figure 3). See Table 2 for individual population sizes relative to population objectives. 3. CPW has intentionally reduced elk populations to achieve population objectives set for each herd. Currently, 22 of 42 (52%) elk herds are still above their current population objective ranges (Table 2). Nonetheless, public perception of the desired number of elk in Colorado varies. CPW gives serious consideration to changing population objectives in herds as HMPs are updated and tries to balance public interests of landowners, local communities, and sportsmen with information from public land management agencies about habitat conditions. Long-term experience with balancing these interests has informed CPW on the upper and lower social thresholds for elk population size in many herds, which benefits us greatly in herd management planning efforts."

 

[Szwampdonkey]

https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Hunting/BigGame/Colorado_Big_Game_Population_Status_and_Management_Summary2_2020.pdf

"Colorado’s statewide elk population was at its peak in 2001. Additional cow (female) licenses were used to reduce elk populations to Herd Management Plan (HMP) population objectives. Elk populations are now stable, but at a lower population size. CPW has compensated for declining calf ratios in the southern half of the state by significantly reducing the number of cow licenses issued."


"Elk Summary
1. Colorado’s elk population peaked at 305,000 in 2001. 2. The 2018 winter elk population estimate of 287,000 elk is just over the sum of Colorado’s individual Herd Management Plan (HMP) population objective ranges for elk statewide of 233,000-282,000 for all 42 elk herds combined (Figure 3). See Table 2 for individual population sizes relative to population objectives. 3. CPW has intentionally reduced elk populations to achieve population objectives set for each herd. Currently, 22 of 42 (52%) elk herds are still above their current population objective ranges (Table 2). Nonetheless, public perception of the desired number of elk in Colorado varies. CPW gives serious consideration to changing population objectives in herds as HMPs are updated and tries to balance public interests of landowners, local communities, and sportsmen with information from public land management agencies about habitat conditions. Long-term experience with balancing these interests has informed CPW on the upper and lower social thresholds for elk population size in many herds, which benefits us greatly in herd management planning efforts."

So 305,000 in 2001 and at last check it’s 308,000 now. I don’t see a problem?

Elk - Statistics

Elk hunting statistics

cpw.state.co.us

 

[cnelk]

Never said there was a problem did I?

 

[Szwampdonkey]

Never said there was a problem did I?

So why did you comment? Cause i made a comment WAY back that there were plenty of animals to hunt as well as the land to hunt them which ticked off the chuckleheads that believe all the animals are gone.

Seems you were implying it’s much worse now by saying i should have hunted Elk 20 years ago if i wanted to see what having a lot of Elk was like?

But as anyone can see the data doesn’t show that to be the case. Which is why i still say there are plenty of animals to hunt as well as land to do it on unless someone can show me differently beyond their anecdotal perception of the population.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

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Some actual data for your enlightenment:

Elk - Statistics

Elk hunting statistics

cpw.state.co.us

 

[svivian]

Some actual data for your enlightenment:

Elk - Statistics

Elk hunting statistics

cpw.state.co.us

Yes lets look at only one state...... ENLIGHTENING!! too bad it was already included with the data I provided for the entire United States..... But you do you boo and keep arguing with everyone and beating your chest. Its entertaining to watch

 

[Overdrive]

Straight from CPW on Elk:

2018 Post Hunt population 286,680
2019 Post Hunt population 292,760
2020 Post Hunt population 293,590
2021 Post Hunt population 308,901

So, it appears to me that 1. Elk numbers are on the rise, 2. There are plenty of Elk to hunt still as they aren’t going extinct, and 3. There are still plenty of places to hunt them.

If you want pre man Elk numbers then i don’t know what to tell you but it seems guys think they are declining, and that’s false. I mean they had all the way back to 2015 on the site and said there were 275,880 back then so how many were there 20 years ago? You telling me there were a couple hundred thousand more than the last estimate of 308,901? Either way, the data show Elk populations are in the rise not decline. Update, i found 2005 Elk population estimate was 258,370 Elk. Maybe i’m missing something but that seems like there were way LESS Elk 20 years ago.

My original point before the chuckleheads chimed in was there are still plenty of animals to hunt and plenty of land to do it. Some could call that my opinion but i call it a fact.

I surely don't believe their data, it's a SWAG method at best for collecting data. But it sure has served them well in getting the midwest boys to buy licenses. When the CPW just flies over in a helicopter, ESTIMATES the number they see then multiply that by a carrying capacity formula from a book, which tells them what the units should hold, well that's not even close. The key word is Estimate in all their numbers.

There's a large ranch not far from me that has a resident herd of around 500 elk on it year round, should those elk be counted since they're not huntable? They get counted for herd estimations and published for the public. And that's just one large ranch. What about RMNP? There's lot's of non huntable elk in RMNP that no one will ever hunt. So CPW can boost the elk herd numbers all they want, but those numbers will never reflect how many elk are actually huntable to the public.

Cnelk is correct about the amount of elk seen, say back in the early 2000's, I kept daily logs of what I'd see in a season of hunting and the drop really started hitting around 2013ish in the area's I hunted. It wasn't uncommon for me and my hunting partner to see 350-400 elk in archery season. Last time I hunted those areas I saw 6 elk in 3 weeks. It's a combination of less elk and way more hunting pressure.

If you believe the numbers they publish, well you better go hunt the White River herd cause there should be an elk around every tree up there. But I'll bet you'll be disappointed in the end.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

Yes lets look at only one state...... ENLIGHTENING!! too bad it was already included with the data I provided for the entire United States..... But you do you boo and keep arguing with everyone and beating your chest. Its entertaining to watch

Glad you were enlightened.

 

[Oregonhuntrboi]

I get it, it’s a balance.

I’ll say this, I enjoy helping the guys I can tell are really passionate. They are usually genuinely appreciative. But they would’ve probably figured it out on their own anyway given some time.

But, as was the case with this guy, a lot of the time it’s someone who just thinks it sounds cool, or is your friend who you think might be cool to have along for the week but turns out just isn’t that into it. Those guys are a PITA.

As someone said it’s really not that complicated, but it’s complicated enough to scare away the folks who aren’t serious about it. Or at least it used to be.

Part of the good in that is keeping some of the idiots off the mountain all together.

I agree! Genuinely asking here. How do I balance helping a co-worker out who puts no effort in for himself ? But is always just asking me for the answers?

 

[Szwampdonkey]

I surely don't believe their data, it's a SWAG method at best for collecting data. But it sure has served them well in getting the midwest boys to buy licenses. When the CPW just flies over in a helicopter, ESTIMATES the number they see then multiply that by a carrying capacity formula from a book, which tells them what the units should hold, well that's not even close. The key word is Estimate in all their numbers.

There's a large ranch not far from me that has a resident herd of around 500 elk on it year round, should those elk be counted since they're not huntable? They get counted for herd estimations and published for the public. And that's just one large ranch. What about RMNP? There's lot's of non huntable elk in RMNP that no one will ever hunt. So CPW can boost the elk herd numbers all they want, but those numbers will never reflect how many elk are actually huntable to the public.

Cnelk is correct about the amount of elk seen, say back in the early 2000's, I kept daily logs of what I'd see in a season of hunting and the drop really started hitting around 2013ish in the area's I hunted. It wasn't uncommon for me and my hunting partner to see 350-400 elk in archery season. Last time I hunted those areas I saw 6 elk in 3 weeks. It's a combination of less elk and way more hunting pressure.

If you believe the numbers they publish, well you better go hunt the White River herd cause there should be an elk around every tree up there. But I'll bet you'll be disappointed in the end.

Game manager numbers are estimates no doubt. But they are much closer to actual than your anecdotal observations.

If you actually think Elk are endangered and over hunted because their estimates are wrong why are you buying tags then?

 

[j_volt]

I agree! Genuinely asking here. How do I balance helping a co-worker out who puts no effort in for himself ? But is always just asking me for the answers?

Ignore him... people have to care for themselves first. After I started dealing dirt naps out west, everyone and their brother wanted to go and asked me about it. However, most people can't focus all the way to explaining the difference between the regular and special draws in Wyoming.

This stuff isn't hard if you actually care.

A non-western-dirt-nap-dealing buddy of mine recently reached out to me about New Mexico. He was quickly discouraged because all of those great elk tags only have 6% draw odds. I didn't have the heart to tell him...

 

[SDHNTR]

I agree! Genuinely asking here. How do I balance helping a co-worker out who puts no effort in for himself ? But is always just asking me for the answers?

Hand him a copy of the proclamation and tell him all your answers are in here.