If You're Wanting to Come Hunt in Montana.....

[Deadfall]

Where do you see this? Do you hang out at big box stores during hunting season and look at license plates and check mom and pop shops and do a calculation? When did you see this or hear it? Did you read a report from U of M's BBER on economic trends? Or maybe, just maybe, are you using your bias to blather on an internet forum where being wrong doesn't cost you anything? What are your sources?

This isn't even an economics issue, other than communist economics when friends of politicians get special treatment and guaranteed business.



Where did this happen in Montana? What public land sold to whom? I honestly would like to know if that's happened in the last 15 years. "Keeps" means they are continuing to do it. Help a guy out.


I get bummed when a public land place I've hunted for a long time and had to myself suddenly has out of state plates and hunters on it, but I'm honestly happy for someone who drove out here and is having the time of their life chasing critters, can't blame anyone.

The selling of public land isn't advertised. Gotta be paying attention to see it. Its pretty common. Or atleast to common.

 

[Mt Al]

The selling of public land isn't advertised. Gotta be paying attention to see it. Its pretty common. Or atleast to common.

Uh huh, yup, sure. Sorry to have wasted both our times asking you questions. Enjoy your life.

 

[Deadfall]

Where do you see this? Do you hang out at big box stores during hunting season and look at license plates and check mom and pop shops and do a calculation? When did you see this or hear it? Did you read a report from U of M's BBER on economic trends? Or maybe, just maybe, are you using your bias to blather on an internet forum where being wrong doesn't cost you anything? What are your sources?

This isn't even an economics issue, other than communist economics when friends of politicians get special treatment and guaranteed business.



Where did this happen in Montana? What public land sold to whom? I honestly would like to know if that's happened in the last 15 years. "Keeps" means they are continuing to do it. Help a guy out.


I get bummed when a public land place I've hunted for a long time and had to myself suddenly has out of state plates and hunters on it, but I'm honestly happy for someone who drove out here and is having the time of their life chasing critters, can't blame anyone.

I used to be anti outfitter. In some ways I still am. I also have a different perspective now, since I went and worked for one to see for myself what's up. In those travels I've run across both spectrums. All in all though outfitters work very hard and don't have as much money in the bank as one would think or as it appears to the eye. For most its a way of life. Their money goes to the business, constantly caring for stock, equipment family. Some of the hardest working down to earth folks I've ran across.

Yes I've ran across the other end of that also.

Same exact thing can be said for diy guys. I've always been a diy guy. I'm constantly hunting out of state myself.

I've been out of state hunting and ran across "locals" thatve tried running me out of places my family has hunted since 70's. Also ran across guys that have become hunting buddies. I hunt there, they come here, we go do whatever.

So all my "blathering" is from personal experience.

I probably have more issue with "locals" here in montana then I do with NR. I see more locals that show their buts then NR.

I agree whole heartedly that 60 percent is too much. I also agree that proper licensed outfitters should have some guaranteed tags. What the fair number is, well idk that.

The ones I worked for are booked a couple years in advance. However, if hunters don't draw then it a scramble, moving clients around, moving money, plus all the book work they have to keep and change for the forest service and fish and game.

So when I hear the phrase outfitter welfare, it gets my hackels up. Be the same as if I were to talk about how useless and lazy your sister is....disclaimer im not doing that, purely example.

They dang sure know in advance how tough it is. Some make it some dont. At the end of the day, they are providing a service. Helping people get to go do things in places their dreams can't conjure. Have once in a lifetime experiences. Thats the stuff that makes all this other B.S. tolerable. They are serving others instead of themselves. The profit margins aren't what you think in most cases.

 

[Deadfall]

Uh huh, yup, sure. Sorry to have wasted both our times asking you questions. Enjoy your life.

Already answered this once, but will answer it again. The latest sell was outside of helena up york. Hogback/sunshine basin. I dont remember the exact buyers name or the dollar amount off tge top of my head. I do know the game wardens response was to hire a helicopter to fly past the private and drop off on the forest. For fees of course

 

[wind gypsy]

I keep seeing all this stuff about mom and pop stores loosing revenue if less NR hunters come in. From what I see and hear most are shopping big box anyway. Stop at cabelas or wherever on way. Buying food from Walmart or Sam's.

What little businesses are benefitting? Bars. Maybe stop and have a couple dinners somewhere. Woo.....hoo....

Someone asked on the other post if hunting another state if I'm ok having to go with someone else. Yap I am. Hunting in Wyoming I have too have a resident of some form with me to hunt wilderness. Guess if I dont like wyoming rules I dont have too hunt in Wyoming.
Same is true in this.

In the last few years I’ve spent over a grand in Rocky Mountain supply (a gas station/hunting/fishing/hardware store) and stayed many nights at hotels where the owner is the main employee. I run into many others like me in these places.

I won’t argue that guided hunters spend significantly more in total (with the outfitting fees) than the avg DIY guy but I definitely spend more than an avg outfitted client on stuff outside of the guide fees.

 

[Deadfall]

Already answered this once, but will answer it again. The latest sell was outside of helena up york. Hogback/sunshine basin. I dont remember the exact buyers name or the dollar amount off tge top of my head. I do know the game wardens response was to hire a helicopter to fly past the private and drop off on the forest. For fees of course

Telk ya what bud. Here's a starting point for you. Go to. DNRC.MY.GOV/ STATE LANDS FOR SALE. Thatll get ya started.

 

[Deadfall]

Uh huh, yup, sure. Sorry to have wasted both our times asking you questions. Enjoy your life.

Dnrc.mt.gov/public lands for sale. Thats one starting spot for you. Give me a bit and I will personally track down more sights for you. It might take me bit to get back with more info, as I am a fully functional adult with adult responsibilities.

 

[Mt Al]

Dnrc.mt.gov/public lands for sale. Thats one starting spot for you. Give me a bit and I will personally track down more sights for you. It might take me bit to get back with more info, as I am a fully functional adult with adult responsibilities.

I stand corrected and I sincerely apologize for my snarky attitude. Thanks for posting that link. I get selling the smaller parcels, but not the full sections that could be traded.

Again, thanks and sorry.

 

[carteranderson]

Disappointed. Was looking at going to Great Falls area 2022...

I'm from AZ, not thrilled to see what outfitting has done to NM....

 

[TylerTheTerrible]

Montana resident here - emailing the committee now..

Seems to me this could hurt BMA access and fair draw odds. If access is hurt, then I'd also expect reducing cow numbers will be harder in high elk density areas. Most are not and will not be paying outfitters for a cow hunt...

Game management and opportunity are more important than reducing non-res hunters in "my spots."

 

[100percent]

BigSky,

I think your read is spot on. If you compare lines 19-21 of page 6 of the proposed bill to the current law (available here), you can see where the underlined, proposed text will reserve 60% of Class B-10 (nonres big game combo) and Class B-11 (nonres deer combo) licenses for outfitted hunts.

Good find. Do you think any of the folks you listed will actually care about what nonresident hunters think rather than the in-state outfitters padding their campaign funds? If so, which of the list are most apt to be open-minded?

I'm really surprised the legislature can reverse a democratic referendum so easily. Is this common in MT

I am neither for or against but, every time I read that statement I think A DEMOCRATIC PROCESS ELECTED JIMMY CARTER, BARACK OBAMA AND JOE BIDEN”. Careful!!!

 

[Brendan]

Had a couple more threads posted on this, so bumping back to the top.

Hearing I think is Tuesday, so if you're going to write, do it today or tomorrow. If you're going to call, do it tomorrow.

 

[mcseal2]

Emails sent.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Well I shot off an email. I'm about as well read as a baby gorilla so hopefully it came across as intended.

 

[joker338]

The non resident tag quota has been fixed for quite some time. We are all non residents in 49 states. Maybe you don’t hunt out of state?


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No, because the reality of living in Montana is most of us don’t make enough money to hunt out of state. We also rely on filling our freezers with our local game, so the less competition the better.

And I’ve watched far more private owners lock up to hunting leases after they changed this law then there ever was before.


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[HighUintas]

I don't live in MT, but do live the place. That bill is insane!!! I can see Utah doing something like this except our govt doesn't care about guides and iutiftters.

Anyone know when it's supposed to go to vote?

 

[dreamingbig]

I don't live in MT, but do live the place. That bill is insane!!! I can see Utah doing something like this except our govt doesn't care about guides and iutiftters.

Anyone know when it's supposed to go to vote?

Tuesday, February 2nd


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[LookinforDirt]

....

Someone asked on the other post if hunting another state if I'm ok having to go with someone else. Yap I am. Hunting in Wyoming I have too have a resident of some form with me to hunt wilderness. Guess if I dont like wyoming rules I dont have too hunt in Wyoming.
Same is true in this.

People will run out of states to hunt fast using this approach. And for every state that boxes out non-residents, it will just make it worse for other states. Everyone boxed out now looks for alternatives among even less opportunity.

And, the same could be said to outfitters. If the business is to tough, find another line of work ( vs. having the rules bent to outfitter favor and using less than fair practices to ensure only outfitters have access to lands and hunting).

 

[dreamingbig]

No, because the reality of living in Montana is most of us don’t make enough money to hunt out of state. We also rely on filling our freezers with our local game, so the less competition the better.

And I’ve watched far more private owners lock up to hunting leases after they changed this law then there ever was before.


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To me it is priorities. If you wanted to hunt out of state you can make it happen. Side hustles fuel my passion.

My budget doesn’t allow for spending $5 to $10k on an outfitter therefore I am opposed to this preferential treatment.

If MT doesn’t want my money they have that choice. I will take it elsewhere but I def won’t spend it on an outfitter.


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[Weston]

I sent an email to all of the legislators, and hope that anyone who thinks they may ever even consider hunting Montana in their life do the same,

if this goes through it won’t ever be repealed and draw odds for guys like most of us will suffer significantly, look at New Mexico as an example.
The limitations like this states continue to impose to price the average guy out of hunting are disappointing it’s already hard enough to draw premium tags anywhere, especially as a non resident, in the past 5 years I’ve already given up on CA WA and OR and put the app fees there into raffles for sheep hunts in BC and if this goes through Montana is likely next on the chopping block for me.