IDFG survey 2024

[mt100gr.]

LR hunting i dont think is the issue, as 90% don't really do it - I think the noise is coming from anti-hunting interests, as it did in AZ and other states saying "it is unfair to be able to shoot a critter at 800 yards" which we know is not true. our voices are needed at these meetings which I plan to attend from here on out.

As far as thermals, I agree that for predator hunting it should be legal however for big game, absolutely not.

I just talked to one of the biologists Monday of this week. His name begins with a C...talked to him about numbers of tags and the CWD "threat" that they are managing.
It seems IDFG is spending a signficant portion of their budget on CWD - a disease which by precedent we cannot stop and does not cross the blood brain barrier into humans.

I don't think you can dismiss "Long Range" hunting that easily in a discussion about technology out-pacing regulation/enforcement. But it depends on your definition. More efficient "medium range " hunting is very easily accessible and there are a lot of people shooting game a lot further than just a few years ago. Just look at Rokslide posts re: rifle selection/scope selection/ballistic questions. Many, many more in the "good to 5, 6, 700 yards with good conditions" type of posts. Those yardages aren't that difficult with today's tech. Though, I certainly don't believe most hunters are capable of the consistency, their gear likely is. True LR hunting, I would agree with you - very few do it with the dedication necessary.

 

[mt100gr.]

I dont use them so I am not really sure exactly what the law is but if I remember correctly, you cant use them from August 1 to December 31.

Not sure on enforcement but my guess would be that you cant have them on you during that time period. Enforcing many laws is hard, doesnt mean they shouldnt be put in place.

Copy that. And I agree re: putting the laws in place.

My concern is the balance of specific regulations...I'd hate to see dedicated predator hunters lose opportunity by certain tech limitations that are simply blanket band aids.

Lots of hunters bitch about our predator problems in the west, but hardly anyone puts in the time to help manage them via hunting.

I don't have an answer, or even a proposed solution/compromise. It's just an interesting dynamic to me.

I am 100% against thermal use for big game hunting and I am 100% for the use of thermal optics for predator hunting. I'd even support some looser laws for the latter.

 

[CorbLand]

Copy that. And I agree re: putting the laws in place.

My concern is the balance of specific regulations...I'd hate to see dedicated predator hunters lose opportunity by certain tech limitations that are simply blanket band aids.

Lots of hunters bitch about our predator problems in the west, but hardly anyone puts in the time to help manage them via hunting.

I don't have an answer, or even a proposed solution/compromise. It's just an interesting dynamic to me.

I am 100% against thermal use for big game hunting and I am 100% for the use of thermal optics for predator hunting. I'd even support some looser laws for the latter.

I dont disagree with you.

I dont really ever say this very often but if a survey ever came out asking if I "strongly agreed" with bringing back the use of 1080...I would complain that the highest form of support I could express is just "strongly agree."

 

[WeiserBucks]

I dont really ever say this very often but if a survey ever came out asking if "strongly agreed" with bringing back the use of 1080...I would complain that the highest form of support I could express is just "strongly agree."

Bring the 1080 on! Along with Texas style aerial gunning legal for the public.

 

[LR5Ranger]

I don't know every regulation, but it's legal to spotlight predators on private.

Also legal on public, you have to go down to the regional office, talk with an enforcement officer and get an artificial light permit.

 

[idelkslayer]

Thermal optics should absolutely be banned during any open season for big game. Just having one in your possession during an open season should constitute a violation. I think it is quickly becoming a serious problem throughout the state. This year I started seeing more than a few photos of deer and elk killed by guys who are openly using thermal optics to find and kill game.

If we allow carve outs for predators (which predators? Coyote?Bear? Lion? Wolf?) those opportunities overlap with big game seasons. How do you enforce it when IDFG encounters a hunter who claims he is just using it to look for coyotes or wolves? Even if he doesn't have a tag for big game doesn't mean that he isn't spotting for a friend who does. Maybe a date range as suggested above that covers most big game seasons? Or disallow if there are any big game seasons open in the unit?

Long range is a bit tougher to regulate and enforce. I can't imagine what those rules would look like. I know certain individuals that owe a significant amount of their success to LR capability but I don't know if that is happening at a large scale yet. However, that may mean that now is the time to head it off before it does become a widespread problem. But what do you regulate? Scope power? Range of rangefinders? No range finders?

I think we have a good set of muzzleloader rules, full bore projectile, exposed ignition, and open sights being the main things keeping that in check.

I can be easily convinced to ban or limit the use of cell trail cameras. Maybe allow them from May through August? I would suggest a law that states that any cellular trail cameras left in the field after Aug 30 are considered abandoned and forfeited and can be taken into legal possession by anyone who finds it. Otherwise a ban would be largely ignored. A stipulation that cellular trail cameras that are on private property within a certain distance of buildings for security reasons would be allowed.

 

[WeiserBucks]

If we allow carve outs for predators (which predators? Coyote?Bear? Lion? Wolf?) those opportunities overlap with big game seasons. How do you enforce it when IDFG encounters a hunter who claims he is just using it to look for coyotes or wolves? Even if he doesn't have a tag for big game doesn't mean that he isn't spotting for a friend who does. Maybe a date range as suggested above that covers most big game seasons? Or disallow if there are any big game seasons open in the unit?

I think the most straightforward, simple approach is a date range. Lions, Wolves and Bears are considered big game so a blanket ban during any big game season would be less realistic. Example: No thermal in possession Aug 15th-Dec 1st and/or during any deer/elk/bear season might be realistic. I could care less if they allow em for lions.

 

[mt100gr.]

Thermal optics should absolutely be banned during any open season for big game. Just having one in your possession during an open season should constitute a violation. I think it is quickly becoming a serious problem throughout the state. This year I started seeing more than a few photos of deer and elk killed by guys who are openly using thermal optics to find and kill game.

If we allow carve outs for predators (which predators? Coyote?Bear? Lion? Wolf?) those opportunities overlap with big game seasons. How do you enforce it when IDFG encounters a hunter who claims he is just using it to look for coyotes or wolves? Even if he doesn't have a tag for big game doesn't mean that he isn't spotting for a friend who does. Maybe a date range as suggested above that covers most big game seasons? Or disallow if there are any big game seasons open in the unit?

Long range is a bit tougher to regulate and enforce. I can't imagine what those rules would look like. I know certain individuals that owe a significant amount of their success to LR capability but I don't know if that is happening at a large scale yet. However, that may mean that now is the time to head it off before it does become a widespread problem. But what do you regulate? Scope power? Range of rangefinders? No range finders?

I think we have a good set of muzzleloader rules, full bore projectile, exposed ignition, and open sights being the main things keeping that in check.

I can be easily convinced to ban or limit the use of cell trail cameras. Maybe allow them from May through August? I would suggest a law that states that any cellular trail cameras left in the field after Aug 30 are considered abandoned and forfeited and can be taken into legal possession by anyone who finds it. Otherwise a ban would be largely ignored. A stipulation that cellular trail cameras that are on private property within a certain distance of buildings for security reasons would be allowed.

I would think the LR regulations could look just like the thermal regulations (ban) "if you're caught in the field with any type of range finder AND ballistic solver technology or the output (drop chart) from such, you're in violation."

 

[WeiserBucks]

I would think the LR regulations could look just like the thermal regulations (ban) "if you're caught in the field with any type of range finder AND ballistic solver technology or the output (drop chart) from such, you're in violation."

I don't know how much of an impact LR actually has on game numbers, but I'm not in favor of your proposal myself. I could type a book about my opinion but it probably wouldn't be clear to anybody except me.

 

[mt100gr.]

I don't know how much of an impact LR actually has on game numbers, but I'm not in favor of your proposal myself. I could type a book about my opinion but it probably wouldn't be clear to anybody except me.

I'm not in favor of it, either!! And I don't necessarily believe that "LR" per-se, has a significant impact. Just that more animals are being killed further from the muzzle every year as a result of the available technology.

 

[mt100gr.]

And to be clear, I'm not in favor of an all-out ban on thermal optics during big game seasons either.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I hear you man. I don't want the .gov steering my life any more than they already do but there's always going to be people who want to take away something from someone else.

 

[Gobbler36]

Thermal optics should absolutely be banned during any open season for big game. Just having one in your possession during an open season should constitute a violation. I think it is quickly becoming a serious problem throughout the state. This year I started seeing more than a few photos of deer and elk killed by guys who are openly using thermal optics to find and kill game.

If we allow carve outs for predators (which predators? Coyote?Bear? Lion? Wolf?) those opportunities overlap with big game seasons. How do you enforce it when IDFG encounters a hunter who claims he is just using it to look for coyotes or wolves? Even if he doesn't have a tag for big game doesn't mean that he isn't spotting for a friend who does. Maybe a date range as suggested above that covers most big game seasons? Or disallow if there are any big game seasons open in the unit?

Long range is a bit tougher to regulate and enforce. I can't imagine what those rules would look like. I know certain individuals that owe a significant amount of their success to LR capability but I don't know if that is happening at a large scale yet. However, that may mean that now is the time to head it off before it does become a widespread problem. But what do you regulate? Scope power? Range of rangefinders? No range finders?

I think we have a good set of muzzleloader rules, full bore projectile, exposed ignition, and open sights being the main things keeping that in check.

I can be easily convinced to ban or limit the use of cell trail cameras. Maybe allow them from May through August? I would suggest a law that states that any cellular trail cameras left in the field after Aug 30 are considered abandoned and forfeited and can be taken into legal possession by anyone who finds it. Otherwise a ban would be largely ignored. A stipulation that cellular trail cameras that are on private property within a certain distance of buildings for security reasons would be allowed.

Agreed
It should be a 1 year ban if caught with one during any big game season.
Most people don’t soley hunt predators during big game seasons anyways so that excuse is hogwash.
2nd offense should be a lifetime ban of a hunting license

The people I know are doing it are going in the middle of the night, and then 2 hrs or so before legal shooting light
Plus if it’s cold and overcast enought they do it in the daytime

 

[WeiserBucks]

Most people don’t soley hunt predators during big game seasons anyways so that excuse is hogwash.

You're absolutely correct, except calling it hogwash won't hold up in court. In my opinion there needs to be a clear cut line to cross, not something blurry guys can use as workaround.

 

[Gobbler36]

I'm not in favor of it, either!! And I don't necessarily believe that "LR" per-se, has a significant impact. Just that more animals are being killed further from the muzzle every year as a result of the available technology.

It’s a huge advantage to be able to shoot 1200yds vs having to get to 200-300yds from animals in rugged country. I would wager that a lot more people fill tags just because of that capability

 

[mt100gr.]

It’s a huge advantage to be able to shoot 1200yds vs having to get to 200-300yds from animals in rugged country. I would wager that a lot more people fill tags just because of that capability

Correct

 

[WeiserBucks]

It’s a huge advantage to be able to shoot 1200yds vs having to get to 200-300yds from animals in rugged country. I would wager that a lot more people fill tags just because of that capability

Not argue your point but there's an incredibly small number of people capable of killing at 1200. I'd bet a paycheck that the Fudds kill and wound 100x more game at 300 than the snipers do at 1200. Shutting off the snipers isn't going to magically change how the Fudds move forward and they represent the vast majority of hunters. Fudds voices drastically outnumber any others in the hunting space and they think the snipers are taking away "their" game.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I guess what I'm trying to say is there's two sides to every coin, blanking out one side doesn't change the other.

 

[downsouth175]

In regards to the thermals, the technology now is to the point where they are extremely efficient night or DAY and at distances that would surprise people. The cost is prohibitive to most, but there is still going to be the handful of people willing to pay for that advantage. In some of the extremely competitive western states with high dollar tags, even with current thermal bans, I think they are still getting utilized a lot. At that point wildlife doesn't have a chance to hide. It's extremely hard to enforce, the deterrent if caught needs to be massive IMO.

 

[Customweld]

In regards to the thermals, the technology now is to the point where they are extremely efficient night or DAY and at distances that would surprise people. The cost is prohibitive to most, but there is still going to be the handful of people willing to pay for that advantage. In some of the extremely competitive western states with high dollar tags, even with current thermal bans, I think they are still getting utilized a lot. At that point wildlife doesn't have a chance to hide. It's extremely hard to enforce, the deterrent if caught needs to be massive IMO.

The thermal stuff is all new to me, I haven't paid much attention to it. How far are they able to utilize it?