Idaho Lighted Nock and Expandable Broadheads.

[Mtnboy]

OK so lets assume the process is done in the "correct manner"....what is the beef the IDFG have with lighted nocks and expandable broadheads?

I am at a loss why lighted broadheads would be a bad thing, I really want to know why they have been outlawed prior.

Idaho has a zero tolerance policy for electronics on Archery equipment.

Expandable broadheads have never been legal here, probably partly due to the chance of them not opening and causing wound loss.

I really want to know why folks think either thing is necessary? Do you really think that lighted nocks or expandable broadheads are going to be the difference in helping you fill the freezer?

If you can't get it done under the current rules & regulations then you need to take a look in the mirror instead of looking for more technology to help.

Enough is enough when it comes to technology and "easy buttons", we are doing just fine without either option.

 

[ODB]

Idaho has a zero tolerance policy for electronics on Archery equipment.

Expandable broadheads have never been legal here, probably partly due to the chance of them not opening and causing wound loss.

I really want to know why folks think either thing is necessary? Do you really think that lighted nocks or expandable broadheads are going to be the difference in helping you fill the freezer?

If you can't get it done under the current rules & regulations then you need to take a look in the mirror instead of looking for more technology to help.

Enough is enough when it comes to technology and "easy buttons", we are doing just fine without either option.

Agree here. As I mentioned before, the barbed broadhead restriction is also in play.

The way I look at it is: isn’t the fact archers get to hunt sweet portions of the seasons enough of an advantage and also more of an incentive to adhere to stricter rules?

There was a thread here a few years ago about broadhead types and success rates. Might be anectdotal, but the gist was fixed blade heads had more pass-throughs, and pass-throughs had higher recovery rates.

There is also the idea that mechanicals fly like field points so no tuning is necessary. I used to hear that all the time selling archery stuff.

 

[DAOutfitters208]

Idaho has a zero tolerance policy for electronics on Archery equipment.

Expandable broadheads have never been legal here, probably partly due to the chance of them not opening and causing wound loss.

I really want to know why folks think either thing is necessary? Do you really think that lighted nocks or expandable broadheads are going to be the difference in helping you fill the freezer?

If you can't get it done under the current rules & regulations then you need to take a look in the mirror instead of looking for more technology to help.

Enough is enough when it comes to technology and "easy buttons", we are doing just fine without either option.

I would like to be able to use lighted nocks to help find the arrow after a shot. I have two things going against me, partial colorblindness and hunting the jungle in North Idaho. I've never used them so I have no idea if they would help, but I would like to think it may help my eyes pick up on it quicker. I don't care enough though to circumvent the commission.

Here is a scary scenario... 20 years from now, Idaho is run by people similar to Washington and they use this decision as precedence to bypass the commission and oh I don't know, eliminate predator hunting, decrease opportunities for elk and deer drastically, ban lead ammo, etc. All for mechanical broadheads and lighted nocks?
No thank you!

 

[Customweld]

I would like to be able to use lighted nocks to help find the arrow after a shot. I have two things going against me, partial colorblindness and hunting the jungle in North Idaho. I've never used them so I have no idea if they would help, but I would like to think it may help my eyes pick up on it quicker. I don't care enough though to circumvent the commission.

Here is a scary scenario... 20 years from now, Idaho is run by people similar to Washington and they use this decision as precedence to bypass the commission and oh I don't know, eliminate predator hunting, decrease opportunities for elk and deer drastically, ban lead ammo, etc. All for mechanical broadheads and lighted nocks?
No thank you!

Our legislative demographic could change within that timeframe. That’s the thing these folks don’t see. That pendulum could swing the other direction with vengeance.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

Idaho has a zero tolerance policy for electronics on Archery equipment.

Expandable broadheads have never been legal here, probably partly due to the chance of them not opening and causing wound loss.

I really want to know why folks think either thing is necessary? Do you really think that lighted nocks or expandable broadheads are going to be the difference in helping you fill the freezer?

If you can't get it done under the current rules & regulations then you need to take a look in the mirror instead of looking for more technology to help.

Enough is enough when it comes to technology and "easy buttons", we are doing just fine without either option.

I do not think lighted nocks are necessary, but they can be helpful in seeing exactly where the shot went. I have hunted with them and without, and I prefer with just due to being able to see my shot stick right where i thought it went rather than thinking it went where I thought it went. Not necessary by any means, but helpful as I said. I think a lot of hunters would be shocked to see where their arrows actually go vs where they think they went. I mainly hunt WT deer though, so pass thrus are the norm and I don't have many sticking out to show where the shot went....would likely be different with an elk, but maybe not....tbt, I also hunt with a crossbow (flog me now)

As for the expandable BH issue, again, not anything necessary at all, just didn't know what the argument was for or against. I always like to discuss if something is better worse or indifferent and if better or indifferent, then whats the concern? I know there must be legitimate concerns (one was brought up about bad hunters taking longer shots due to BH being more aerodynamic).

I am not trying to be argumentative, just genuinely curious...

 

[dieselchessy]

Your demographic has already changed, that's why this non-issue is on the table. Washington has already legalized lighted nocks and expandable broadheads in the name of "better recovery of animals". We too had a no barbed points and no electronics on bows laws. They have gone to the wayside.

If you increase efficacy then harvest will go up and with that seasons and opportunities will go down. Just the way it is.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

Our legislative demographic could change within that timeframe. That’s the thing these folks don’t see. That pendulum could swing the other direction with vengeance.

Yeah says the guy from now somewhat purple texas....influx from californians is killing the politics of texas and I fear 20 years from now (probably a lot less) and texas will be going through similar things as california, where a couple blue counties ruin the state for the rest.

 

[ODB]

Yeah says the guy from now somewhat purple texas....influx from californians is killing the politics of texas and I fear 20 years from now (probably a lot less) and texas will be going through similar things as california, where a couple blue counties ruin the state for the rest.

Funny how that old saw “a few bad apples spoil the bunch” applies to more than apples, aye?

 

[Customweld]

From Brian Brooks on FB.
Hey all- quick update. This morning the IDFG Commission voted to oppose HB 507, and to initiate the rule making process for lighted nocks and expandable broadheads. With this, Rep. Mitchell may pull his bill, which he said he'd consider if the Commission initiated.
That means the public process for these two issues will take place through the commission's yearlong process, the way it should be.
Best of both worlds- we avoided legislation (if Mitchell holds up his end of the bargain) and for the first time the Commission will allow the scoping process to begin. Now you'll have the opportunity to voice your opinion AND we will find out where sportsmen stand on the issue. The way it should be done.
It's amazing what can be done when you take the explosive rhetoric out of a discussion and do a little coordinating with some folks

 

[Texasbuckeye]

Thats good news. Having no skin in the game I am just glad the process was sorted out. I hate it when politics gets sideways and people decide they need to circumvent the process

 

[wind gypsy]

The fear of lighted nocks is dumb. More likely to help wildlife/hunting than hurt but in the end probably negligible impact if allowed or not. A logical debate could actually be made about mechanicals but still dont see a big reason to oppose them. Either is not something worth investing time fighting over.

On the other hand, i wholeheartedly oppose politicians getting involved in this nonsense. Fer ***** sake, find something better to do.

 

[Customweld]

The fear of lighted nocks is dumb. More likely to help wildlife/hunting than hurt but in the end probably negligible impact if allowed or not. A logical debate could actually be made about mechanicals but still dont see a big reason to oppose them. Either is not something worth investing time fighting over.

On the other hand, i wholeheartedly oppose politicians getting involved in this nonsense. Fer ***** sake, find something better to do.

I think I can agree with that. This whole thing to me is about a legislator circumventing the commission. With that being said, I think if lighted nocks and mb’s make it through, archery hunters are going to have to be prepared to lose opportunity with shortened seasons.
I doubt very seriously that they are going to have that big of an impact on their own. But when you add everything together such as faster bows, more time in the field, it’s all going to add up.

 

[Mtnboy]

I think I can agree with that. This whole thing to me is about a legislator circumventing the commission. With that being said, I think if lighted nocks and mb’s make it through, archery hunters are going to have to be prepared to lose opportunity with shortened seasons.
I doubt very seriously that they are going to have that big of an impact on their own. But when you add everything together such as faster bows, more time in the field, it’s all going to add up.

This is where I'm at.

At some point we have to decide enough is enough, if we keep allowing more and more tools for hunters to be more efficient we are going to start losing opportunity.

I actually don't even think that expandables are better than some of the fixed blade options on the market these days, I just think we need to leave the rules as they are.

 

[sneaky]

Guess we'll see how the Governor's appointees on the commission vote on this. Or if the bill's sponsor isn't a typical lying turd. Stay tuned.

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[Texasbuckeye]

The thing about lighted nocks is they dont give an advantage for the shot, they only light up during the shot. So your argument about lighted nocks giving less access ultimately due to higher harvests and shorter seasons is silly.

Maybe you could make that argument over range finding bow sights or something, but lighted nocks…come on man.

 

[ODB]

The thing about lighted nocks os they dont give an advantage for the shot, they only light up during the shot. So your argument about lighted nocks giving less access ultimateoy due to higher harvests and shorter seasons over nocks is silly.

Maybe you cpupd make that argument over range finding bow sights or something, but lighted nocks…come on man.

That would be down the line. that's the whole issue. Once electronics are allowed - well, it's just an incremental move until you have your range-finding sights. I mean hey - if we want more humane kills, a rangefinding sight helps eliminate errors that eliminate wounding - let's just allow anything on a bow that does that - hell, why not even the draw holds that have existed. Shit, why not allow SSC poison - if it's good enough for the father of modern bowhunting, Fred Bear, the Bushmen, and the Amazon tribes - why can't we have it too? I mean come on - a crossbow is just a bow turned sidways? We already have the rangefinding sights on bows, so a rangefinding scope is the same thing - right? And it ALL helps minimize wounding doesn't it? I mean - it's for the kids - THE KIDS! If they don;t achieve success relatively early, they will quit, and then who will be the next generation of hunters?!?!? Think of our #publiclands in #publichands!

The slippery slope isn't a logical fallacy - it's merely a process.

 

[sneaky]

The thing about lighted nocks is they dont give an advantage for the shot, they only light up during the shot. So your argument about lighted nocks giving less access ultimately due to higher harvests and shorter seasons is silly.

Maybe you could make that argument over range finding bow sights or something, but lighted nocks…come on man.

Man, I'm so glad a Texan came in to tell us how lighted nocks work and how we should run our state.

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[Chad E]

Technology creep in weapons and the slippery slope is very real. In Washington we have a couple really good examples. It wasn't to many years ago that muzzleloader ignitions had to be exposed to the elements and 209 primers were not legal. Rule making was initiated to change the policy based on hunter feedback. Public comment(by hunters) supported lifting those restrictions mostly citing better recovery more ethical ect as reasons to support. Wdfw changed the rule and allowed sealed and modern ignition(so large rifle primers are in too). This change facilitates the use of better propelent(blackhorn 209). That was status quo for a couple years so you were still limited by the open sight requirement. Then last year they proposed 1x or reddot scopes on muzzloaders. Again public comment by hunters supported it and if not for a technicality it probably would have passed as well and likely will in the next package. If i was to bet I'd guess the not many years down the road the support for bigger power scopes because after all 1x are hard to get and all will grow(like utah). Over the course of a couple "small" changes the entire weapon is very different and I see no way to argue its not more effective.

The other example is archery. Washington used to have same prohibition on mechanicals and lighted nocks as idaho. Washinton sarted allowing them a few years back. Not a big deal but then last year came support for rangfinding bow sights and again if not for a technicality they'd probably be legal now.

Each increase in technology doesn't seem that bad on its face but you look back after a few of them spread out over a few years and you have Utah legal muzzloaders that guys are shooting to 600 plus yards and are essentially single shot long range capable rifles.

This improvment in weapons and tech is all coming as mule deer struggle. It just seems counterintuitive that we as hunters want every advantage yet want more deer, more tags, etc.

Also I totally agree limiting tech is a slippery slope it's hard to draw the line and I'm not saying I know where to put said line. Someone will invariably point out "well where do you draw the line you use a ( insert rangefinder, dialable turret, trail cam etc)don't you" in an attempt to muddy the water and throw the whole concept out.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

guys, i am not trying to tell idaho how to hunt or anything like that. I understand the concern for tech creep and “drawing the line” and all that, i do. And as i said i dont have skin in the game. I was just pointing out the lighted nock is not an aid to the shot, and to suggest that one thing is what will cause the issues you all are describing is a stretch. Does everyone bow hunt in Idaho with a recurve or longbow, or do they allow compounds with 75-80% let off and adjustable pin sights and drop down arrow rests?

The slippery slope was approached and slipped over a while back. Your arguments here are simply trying to hang on to your grip as ling as possible, but the tech creep Isn’t just electronic, lets call it what it is. Mechanical tech has crept in a long time ago.

 

[Mtnboy]

guys, i am not trying to tell idaho how to hunt or anything like that. I understand the concern for tech creep and “drawing the line” and all that, i do. And as i said i dont have skin in the game. I was just pointing out the lighted nock is not an aid to the shot, and to suggest that one thing is what will cause the issues you all are describing is a stretch. Does everyone bow hunt in Idaho with a recurve or longbow, or do they allow compounds with 75-80% let off and adjustable pin sights and drop down arrow rests?

The slippery slope was approached and slipped over a while back. Your arguments here are simply trying to hang on to your grip as ling as possible, but the tech creep Isn’t just electronic, lets call it what it is. Mechanical tech has crept in a long time ago.

Yep, but there is no need to let it creep any further.