Idaho Fish & Game In-person Tag Sales Strategy

[Z Barebow]

I think a better question is, did residents see a decrease in hunters after limiting tag sales? Was tag quota a success or not?

It needs to be understood, when caps were placed on ALL elk zones, (A few zones always had caps) the number of available NR elk tags stayed EXACTLY the same. (NR tags were adjusted downward in previously. ~5 years ago if memory serves. Which coincided with an NR tag price increase) The goal was to redistribute NR tags to under prescribed zones.

The real answer to your question. It depends. With knowledge above, some zones did see less NR pressure. (Because in theory previously every NR could be elk hunting in one zone) The goal was to spread NR pressure. Great for some zones. But the previously under prescribed zones are likely seeing more pressure as NR's bought tags in previously under prescribed zones.

As of today, ~0800 MST Lolo still has tags for NR elk hunters. (Apparently Lolo is still under prescribed!)

 

[87TT]

Bottom line is, most residents don't want a draw. If they do a draw for NR, then they might slip one in on us. If you don't like the system, don't play.
NR don't realize if they do a draw, you are only going to get a couple of choices and won't have a chance to get your 4th or 5th choice.
Either way the unhappy people won't change and as it is now, they sell out so no real incentive to change.

 

[steelheadmike]

As far as the effect of a NR draw on residents, I would think that it would free up tags for residents to purchase in August. If NR can only select 2 or 3 choices, they are prevented from panic buying a Selway B tag or Lolo tag. I don't think you'd see much demand for the units that are typically last to sell out and those tags would end up in the NR pool. Because of how residents can acquire elk tags (for uncapped zones, they are taken from the entire NR pool not the NR unit allocation), this would have more tags available for purchase instead of the few that are left in August under the current system.

For example, if you look at the post above, there are 438 NR tags allocated for Lolo with only 13 currently remaining. How many of those 425 tagholders would have put Lolo as their top 2 or 3 choices? I bet a lot less than 425. In a draw system, the unawarded would then go back into the NR total pool for residents to purchase.

If my logic holds true, a NR draw could work out well for residents as it would free up NR tags for purchase. The tags will eventually all get sold at the NR price, either by residents or NR in the subsequent tag sale events.

 

[87TT]

Until they decide to use a draw for residents. Or make us pick a unit for deer. I think they ought to keep the system they have for a few years and see if it doesn't shake out. Every time IDFG makes a hasty knee jerk reaction to complaints, they screw it up and make it worse. This is a fairly new system and it needs time to see if it can work. And then small changes.
If what you suggest might happen, that will not help NR but make it worse for them as their odds would be far worse. Now they have a better chance.

 

[PNW CAMPER]

First off I want to say as Non Resident and Disabled Vet I feel extremally privileged to be able to hunt in another state. Thanks for the opportunity Idaho.

Just as a note on my experiences, I am a NR who is lucky to be tech savy and close enough to drive to ID, I have purchased my NR tags on line and in person. Mixed results and a bit of frustration with each system. In the past, I have had to take time off from work to participate in getting my NR licenses, now that I am retired, I just have more time to wait in line. Everyone can cite their own special circumstances, for me its all about planning/prioritizing what is important to you and no sense complaining about what you cannot control.

OK, you asked, here is my input -
When "agents" (that is friends, family, outfitters, third party profiteers, etc) are allowed to purchase multiple tickets for multiple people on the same day as license sales either for resale or other commercial reasons, this practice effects the process in such a negative fashion. ie increasing the wait times, creating distrust in the system, taking tags that others were hoping to have fair opportunity to purchase. Persons making multiple purchases should not be able to get into line either by online or in person at the expensive of others. Perhaps there needs to be an "Agent" only license sales day. That would clear up some major back logs and help move the line along. I will say as I watched others, the online system was better this year, but still far too many comments about people getting kicked out of the online process and having to start over.

I am supportive of ending the practice of others (residents and Non- Residents) being allowed to purchase tickets for their "Customers", long lost hunting buddy, friends, family members, etc with no limit on number of tickets they can purchase. I do agree with a having a system where a dad and son/daughter should be able to hunt together or small group of friends, but I don't have a method to propose.

In my opinion Outfitters deserve no special privilege's. Their tags should not come out of the NR pot and they should not be able to get into line either by online or in person and purchase multiple tags on NR or Residents licenses sales days.

The online system was much improved this year. Thanks for that. However, it still needs work and some tweaks to make it better. I want to recognize all the F /G employees, they do a great job with what they have, putting up with a lot of frustrated and sometimes down right rude customers.

I also agree, that having some skin in the game will help weed out the ones who are not serious about hunting and just want to tie up a tag until they make up their mind, while someone else loses out now that tag is gone. Not sure how accomplish that but usually having some sort of financial stake is enough to ensure legit interest and good intentions.

 

[steelheadmike]

Until they decide to use a draw for residents. Or make us pick a unit for deer. I think they ought to keep the system they have for a few years and see if it doesn't shake out. Every time IDFG makes a hasty knee jerk reaction to complaints, they screw it up and make it worse. This is a fairly new system and it needs time to see if it can work. And then small changes.
If what you suggest might happen, that will not help NR but make it worse for them as their odds would be far worse. Now they have a better chance.

The current system is not new. They've had it for more than a few years and it's not shaking out. With the switch to allocated NR tags and the associated demand, it's time for a change.

I think the odds for high demand units would be low and higher for low demand units, like every other random draw scenario. Those with a better chance have found avenues to game the system and exploit loopholes.

 

[Chucklehead]

As far as the effect of a NR draw on residents, I would think that it would free up tags for residents to purchase in August. If NR can only select 2 or 3 choices, they are prevented from panic buying a Selway B tag or Lolo tag. I don't think you'd see much demand for the units that are typically last to sell out and those tags would end up in the NR pool. Because of how residents can acquire elk tags (for uncapped zones, they are taken from the entire NR pool not the NR unit allocation), this would have more tags available for purchase instead of the few that are left in August under the current system.

For example, if you look at the post above, there are 438 NR tags allocated for Lolo with only 13 currently remaining. How many of those 425 tagholders would have put Lolo as their top 2 or 3 choices? I bet a lot less than 425. In a draw system, the unawarded would then go back into the NR total pool for residents to purchase.

Pretty sure residents could buy a second tag this year in those units you mentioned and nobody wanted them. At least not for the NR price. Might have to fact check me there though.

There would probably be over 60k applications. If you assume 3x choices per app. Leaves you with 180,000 choices. You don't think 400 people would put it as a last choice and panic buy like they do now? They can always turn it back in or exchange it.
You might have a few slip through the cracks occasionally like Colorado, but they will get swallowed up the moment the 2rd round of buying goes on.
There is just way too much NR demand. Not much is going to get to residents as seconds. OTC or draw.

 

[steelheadmike]

Pretty sure residents could buy a second tag this year in those units you mentioned and nobody wanted them. At least not for the NR price. Might have to fact check me there though.

There would probably be over 60k applications. If you assume 3x choices per app. Leaves you with 180,000 choices. You don't think 400 people would put it as a last choice and panic buy like they do now? They can always turn it back in or exchange it.
You might have a few slip through the cracks occasionally like Colorado, but they will get swallowed up the moment the 2rd round of buying goes on.
There is just way too much NR demand. Not much is going to get to residents as seconds. OTC or draw.

Residents can use unsold NR tags in any uncapped zone. If there are 33 Lolo B NR tags available in August, I could pay the NR price and get Panhandle B tag. It does not matter where the NR tag is good for. It goes into the NR pool for the state (out of the 12K tags).

I have to think not too many people would put Lolo as one of their top 2 choices (ID uses a two choice system in the CH draw: I couldn't remember). Lolo is a good example because of how high the NR allocation is vs resident cap (A tag: 216 vs 404).

 

[IdahoBeav]

Residents can use unsold NR tags in any uncapped zone.

This is a huge benefit with deer tags for residents. NRs won't pick up a returned tag as a 2nd because it is for X unit and they hunt Y, or X unit is not a great hunt. However, if a resident picks it up as a 2nd, it is valid across the state. It is no longer unit specific.

 

[Wrench]

I wouldn't give you 80 bux for a lolo tag.

 

[WCB]

There are horror stories every year about the online waiting room booting people before purchase and some of you want to totally depend on that system to function? I've talked to fish and game employees and they know that they can't handle the site traffic. That site needs to be bulletproof for that to work.

This actually isn't true anymore at fish and game offices. Anyone who wants more than 5 tags gets sent to their own line now. If you have less than that, you go to the other terminals. They covered it in the last meeting. I think it was the right move.

How would you eliminate proxy buying at other 3rd party vendors like you described? No proxy buying at all?
Can't buy tags for your kids anymore?
Immediate family can proxy purchase?
Cap it at 2,3, or 5 tags per buyer?

Not saying there isn't some room for improvement, But changing just for the sake of change seems like we are setting ourselves up for some unintended consequences.

On the proxy buying you could set it up where basically the tag holders address has to match the payers address. Or have a simple question and check box. Are you buying this tag for someone else (X) yes ( ) No. If yes, what is your relation ( ) spouse ( )child/dependant under 18. ( ) other. If "other" sorry no purchase allowed.

Then put the purchasers name on the license. 50 year old Dave Dingleberry gets checked and the buyers name is 45 year old Peter Buttknuckle (ID #8675309). Better be able to prove you are married because he isn't your dependent minor.

This isn't directed directly at you...but if a grown adult can't buy their own license or can't make it to a certain place at a certain time to stand in line...screw them.

 

[7mm-08]

First off I want to say as Non Resident and Disabled Vet I feel extremally privileged to be able to hunt in another state. Thanks for the opportunity Idaho.

Just as a note on my experiences, I am a NR who is lucky to be tech savy and close enough to drive to ID, I have purchased my NR tags on line and in person. Mixed results and a bit of frustration with each system. In the past, I have had to take time off from work to participate in getting my NR licenses, now that I am retired, I just have more time to wait in line. Everyone can cite their own special circumstances, for me its all about planning/prioritizing what is important to you and no sense complaining about what you cannot control.

OK, you asked, here is my input -
When "agents" (that is friends, family, outfitters, third party profiteers, etc) are allowed to purchase multiple tickets for multiple people on the same day as license sales either for resale or other commercial reasons, this practice effects the process in such a negative fashion. ie increasing the wait times, creating distrust in the system, taking tags that others were hoping to have fair opportunity to purchase. Persons making multiple purchases should not be able to get into line either by online or in person at the expensive of others. Perhaps there needs to be an "Agent" only license sales day. That would clear up some major back logs and help move the line along. I will say as I watched others, the online system was better this year, but still far too many comments about people getting kicked out of the online process and having to start over.

I am supportive of ending the practice of others (residents and Non- Residents) being allowed to purchase tickets for their "Customers", long lost hunting buddy, friends, family members, etc with no limit on number of tickets they can purchase. I do agree with a having a system where a dad and son/daughter should be able to hunt together or small group of friends, but I don't have a method to propose.

In my opinion Outfitters deserve no special privilege's. Their tags should not come out of the NR pot and they should not be able to get into line either by online or in person and purchase multiple tags on NR or Residents licenses sales days.

The online system was much improved this year. Thanks for that. However, it still needs work and some tweaks to make it better. I want to recognize all the F /G employees, they do a great job with what they have, putting up with a lot of frustrated and sometimes down right rude customers.

I also agree, that having some skin in the game will help weed out the ones who are not serious about hunting and just want to tie up a tag until they make up their mind, while someone else loses out now that tag is gone. Not sure how accomplish that but usually having some sort of financial stake is enough to ensure legit interest and good intentions

First off I want to say as Non Resident and Disabled Vet I feel extremally privileged to be able to hunt in another state. Thanks for the opportunity Idaho.

Just as a note on my experiences, I am a NR who is lucky to be tech savy and close enough to drive to ID, I have purchased my NR tags on line and in person. Mixed results and a bit of frustration with each system. In the past, I have had to take time off from work to participate in getting my NR licenses, now that I am retired, I just have more time to wait in line. Everyone can cite their own special circumstances, for me its all about planning/prioritizing what is important to you and no sense complaining about what you cannot control.

OK, you asked, here is my input -
When "agents" (that is friends, family, outfitters, third party profiteers, etc) are allowed to purchase multiple tickets for multiple people on the same day as license sales either for resale or other commercial reasons, this practice effects the process in such a negative fashion. ie increasing the wait times, creating distrust in the system, taking tags that others were hoping to have fair opportunity to purchase. Persons making multiple purchases should not be able to get into line either by online or in person at the expensive of others. Perhaps there needs to be an "Agent" only license sales day. That would clear up some major back logs and help move the line along. I will say as I watched others, the online system was better this year, but still far too many comments about people getting kicked out of the online process and having to start over.

I am supportive of ending the practice of others (residents and Non- Residents) being allowed to purchase tickets for their "Customers", long lost hunting buddy, friends, family members, etc with no limit on number of tickets they can purchase. I do agree with a having a system where a dad and son/daughter should be able to hunt together or small group of friends, but I don't have a method to propose.

In my opinion Outfitters deserve no special privilege's. Their tags should not come out of the NR pot and they should not be able to get into line either by online or in person and purchase multiple tags on NR or Residents licenses sales days.

The online system was much improved this year. Thanks for that. However, it still needs work and some tweaks to make it better. I want to recognize all the F /G employees, they do a great job with what they have, putting up with a lot of frustrated and sometimes down right rude customers.

I also agree, that having some skin in the game will help weed out the ones who are not serious about hunting and just want to tie up a tag until they make up their mind, while someone else loses out now that tag is gone. Not sure how accomplish that but usually having some sort of financial stake is enough to ensure legit interest and good intentions.

Please, if you feel this way, communicate your sentiments to the Idaho Fish and Game Commission. I believe the time is right to effect this change (but only if others - like yourself - weigh in).

 

[FlareBlitz91]

I agree with the OP of this post, as someone who pocketed $1000 to grab tags for family friends, it’s an inherently broken system and i think that it should be changed. It’s crazy that i can be standing in line for someone and they can be on their phone in the digital line to gamble and see if they got a low number, everyone is angling every which way to get an advantage. I think people should only be able to buy for themselves and potentially youth hunters.

That being said, there is zero incentive to make it a draw. All the tags go (or close to) now, people have committed time to this so if they don’t get their choice they’ll buy a tag anyway even a zone they don’t know shit about.

And then the hilarious thing is that some of them will return that tag and IDFG will sell it again.

I think we should keep it as is but restrict some of the more egregious behavior in some way.

 

[Idaboy]

The current system is not new. They've had it for more than a few years and it's not shaking out. With the switch to allocated NR tags and the associated demand, it's time for a change.

I think the odds for high demand units would be low and higher for low demand units, like every other random draw scenario. Those with a better chance have found avenues to game the system and exploit loopholes.

Not quite sure where you are going with this, as it speaks to 2 different issues.

The allocated tag for NR has just been a few years and that started AFTER the rapid sell out problem. In 2019 and 2020 tags started rapidly selling out, 2020 being same day. The total amount NR tags has not changed for decades. It has spread out the NR during season.. I don't think the allocated NR tag system was meant to change demand, nor impact/change the ability to get a tag. So you are taking about 2 different problems ( demand for tag itself vs pressure in various OTC zones)

 

[Wrench]

I agree with the OP of this post, as someone who pocketed $1000 to grab tags for family friends, it’s an inherently broken system and i think that it should be changed. It’s crazy that i can be standing in line for someone and they can be on their phone in the digital line to gamble and see if they got a low number, everyone is angling every which way to get an advantage. I think people should only be able to buy for themselves and potentially youth hunters.

That being said, there is zero incentive to make it a draw. All the tags go (or close to) now, people have committed time to this so if they don’t get their choice they’ll buy a tag anyway even a zone they don’t know shit about.

And then the hilarious thing is that some of them will return that tag and IDFG will sell it again.

I think we should keep it as is but restrict some of the more egregious behavior in some way.

Youth hunters can still go buy a tag today....deer and elk.

 

[steelheadmike]

Not quite sure where you are going with this, as it speaks to 2 different issues.

The allocated tag for NR has just been a few years and that started AFTER the rapid sell out problem. In 2019 and 2020 tags started rapidly selling out, 2020 being same day. The total amount NR tags has not changed for decades. It has spread out the NR during season.. I don't think the allocated NR tag system was meant to change demand, nor impact/change the ability to get a tag. So you are taking about 2 different problems ( demand for tag itself vs pressure in various OTC zones)

The Dec 1 circus started in 2021. I was non-resident in 2019 and 2020. I purchased my elk tags on June 15 and April 4 of those years, respectively, not on Dec 1 of the previous years. It was for an uncapped zone and as long as long as one of the 12k tags for the state were available, I could buy one.

The new NR tag allocation created the feeling of scarcity and is driving the Dec 1 chaos. With the new system of tag allocation, there needs to be an update to the system.

This is from HuntinFool
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[Idaboy]

I understand your point..Yes it was 2021, it was Dec 2020 when they sold out quick, correct? Regardless of year, I guess I didn't feel like the zone caps caused the chaos, EVERYONE, is now trying to do western hunting.Look at MT or WY now compared to 2020-2021.... I guess they could loosen the zone caps...but I suspect given the trend, even for residents in ID they will have to move to capped zones. Not against just a random draw for Idaho, but honestly I don't think IDFG wants to, nor has the state funding, to improve the process. It's a sh#%show, they sell all their tags in 24-48 hrs, and anything else they would need to invest more money to make work.
To the OP, for the sake of fundamental fairness, they should tweak what they have.....I haven't been able get an online tag for my dad and I both, now for 3 yrs, and it kinda sucks to not be able to put some sort of trip together with him once every few yrs

 

[Touchdown88]

I'm in favor of a draw. 30k+ people will apply for the tags. Tac on $20 per application and the department makes another $600k. Have the draw close on 1 Dec and tags must be purchase by 31 Dec.

Any unpurchased tags will be run through another draw (maybe 10k applicants) that closes on 31 Jan. Give people 15 days to purchase then any remaining tags can go to the monthly circus of trying to purchase have first-come-first-serve.

 

[sasquatch]

I think the odds would be better across an open draw!

You won’t have people logging in with 5-10 different computers, you won’t have the in person proxy/friend buying 20 tags etc etc

But I am also ok with the current system if they’d fix it and actually make it fair. For one make people log in to THEN get in the waiting room. That would stop the multi computer thing. Then stop the mass tag purchases by one person etc etc


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Jason Snyder]

I’d be 100% fine with 1) buy your hunting license and 2) log in to your IDFG account in order to get into the queu.