Idaho Bonus point system

[High Climber]

Idaho has the best draw system in the west. 100% opposed to a point scheme at least for Residents

 

[Pacific_Fork]

Anyone from Idaho advocating for a point system of any kind needs their head checked. You like how other states do it?….feel free to one of those states and enjoy said “system”.

Jesus, people are dumb.

If you need an explanation as to why point systems suck…feel free to read any of a dozen posts explaining the MANY reasons to avoid it…both from Idaho residents and non-residents that have states already proving it sucks.

If you don’t follow, then you’re being deliberately obtuse or you were likely dropped on you head as a child.

AMEN!!!

Especially when freaking transplants advocate for changes to the system.

 

[buckshot516]

We should emphatically fight a points system in Idaho 100%. Idaho is set up as close to perfect as we can ask for. It would be a severely sad day to see a points system rob every one of their equal chance at drawing year after year. Several things I would counter to points made by OP. First the alleged predictability of drawing hunt’s every few years in a points system. All it takes is word to get out on one special animal. It doesn’t matter if he’s still on the hoof, or in the back of someone’s truck. Once word gets out that a big buck or bull stepped foot on a certain low point unit it’s game over. This is of course if there is actual “low-mid” point units. Look at Idaho’s deer odds and very few have an over a 20% chance. Most are far under that. This is a classic if it isn’t broke don’t fix it situation. I know several people that aren’t lucky and don’t draw often, or for that matter never have, and they aren’t asking for a points system.
The one concession I can make is looking at it from a nonresident’s perspective I would imagine it would be nice to get some value out of the non refundable license they have to purchase to apply. Even then I’d wager a lot of nonresidents would still prefer it the way it is. Honestly, I wish all the states would go random with 1 choice that counts
Someone else mentioned hold out after successfully drawing should be longer than 1 year. I don’t think we should go crazy with it, or include youth in that, but it would certainly make a difference.


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[WRO]

We should emphatically fight a points system in Idaho 100%. Idaho is set up as close to perfect as we can ask for. It would be a severely sad day to see a points system rob every one of their equal chance at drawing year after year. Several things I would counter to points made by OP. First the alleged predictability of drawing hunt’s every few years in a points system. All it takes is word to get out on one special animal. It doesn’t matter if he’s still on the hoof, or in the back of someone’s truck. Once word gets out that a big buck or bull stepped foot on a certain low point unit it’s game over. This is of course if there is actual “low-mid” point units. Look at Idaho’s deer odds and very few have an over a 20% chance. Most are far under that. This is a classic if it isn’t broke don’t fix it situation. I know several people that aren’t lucky and don’t draw often, or for that matter never have, and they aren’t asking for a points system.
The one concession I can make is looking at it from a nonresident’s perspective I would imagine it would be nice to get some value out of the non refundable license they have to purchase to apply. Even then I’d wager a lot of nonresidents would still prefer it the way it is. Honestly, I wish all the states would go random with 1 choice that counts
Someone else mentioned hold out after successfully drawing should be longer than 1 year. I don’t think we should go crazy with it, or include youth in that, but it would certainly make a difference.

I don’t know about your assertation that there being a big critter really changes things..

I hunt a unit another state that had 5 bucks over 200 killed out of it a few years back, it was 4 points prior, its still 4 points now.

 

[IdahoBeav]

AMEN!!!

Especially when freaking transplants advocate for changes to the system.

It’s usually the longtime residents and people that have lived here their entire lives that advocate for a points system. They haven’t drawn in 20+ years, and they know a guy that draws every year, or something like that. Somehow, a points system will immediately fix their problems.

I get a kick out of the transplants that blame everything on other transplants. It was ok for them to move here but no one else.

 

[WRO]

It’s usually the longtime residents and people that have lived here their entire lives that advocate for a points system. They haven’t drawn in 20+ years, and they know a guy that draws every year, or something like that. Somehow, a points system will immediately fix their problems.

I get a kick out of the transplants that blame everything on other transplants. It was ok for them to move here but no one else.

I was just throwing it out there, I think Idaho has the best OIL tag draw set up, I sure as heck would like to have some inclination of when I am going to draw for planning purposes. I think earlier draw/results would be great for big game draws, because it sucks to have your fall pretty well planned up, then draw a great tag and not have the time to put towards it that it justifies, which I had happen 2 years ago.

In 5 years I’ve learned that anything new is bad, unless it involves limiting evil non residents/outfitters that are killing everyone’s critters. We need to be able to kill every deer every year otc, but at the same time there’s definitely less good deer on the landscape and its only non residents faults. Most people seem to care, but not enough to give up anything.

It’s not too far off most states.

 

[idelkslayer]

I was just throwing it out there, I think Idaho has the best OIL tag draw set up, I sure as heck would like to have some inclination of when I am going to draw for planning purposes. I think earlier draw/results would be great for big game draws, because it sucks to have your fall pretty well planned up, then draw a great tag and not have the time to put towards it that it justifies, which I had happen 2 years ago.

In 5 years I’ve learned that anything new is bad, unless it involves limiting evil non residents/outfitters that are killing everyone’s critters. We need to be able to kill every deer every year otc, but at the same time there’s definitely less good deer on the landscape and its only non residents faults. Most people seem to care, but not enough to give up anything.

It’s not too far off most states.

I agree on how Idaho does the OIL drawing. Make people choose what they really want. I've been applying in the OIL drawings for 13 years straight. Sometimes it is tough to sit out of the D/E/A drawing but I know what I want more. I put my kids in for D/E/A and have gotten to experience a few hunts through them.

I would entertain the idea of doing the same thing for deer/elk/antelope. Make people pick one. But I wonder how it might affect the OIL drawing odds. Right now part of what makes the OIL draw work is that it is balanced out by the incentive of being able to apply for all 3 of the DEA hunts as opposed to just one OIL hunt. I wonder if restricting to one species for all draws would push more people into the OIL drawing. Or the opposite could happen and the drawing odds for D/E/A go up enough to incentivize people to stay with those species. I don't think we could ever know for certain unless we try it.

 

[IdahoBeav]

I was just throwing it out there, I think Idaho has the best OIL tag draw set up, I sure as heck would like to have some inclination of when I am going to draw for planning purposes. I think earlier draw/results would be great for big game draws, because it sucks to have your fall pretty well planned up, then draw a great tag and not have the time to put towards it that it justifies, which I had happen 2 years ago.

In 5 years I’ve learned that anything new is bad, unless it involves limiting evil non residents/outfitters that are killing everyone’s critters. We need to be able to kill every deer every year otc, but at the same time there’s definitely less good deer on the landscape and its only non residents faults. Most people seem to care, but not enough to give up anything.

It’s not too far off most states.

I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the majority of people that are in favor of a points system, and there aren't many on RS, but they're pretty thick on FB hunting groups.

The nonresident hate is mostly rooted in jealousy. NR success rates are much higher.

I don't want a point system, but it's not a bad question to ask and discuss. Much of what keeps Idaho from going to points is the OTC deer and elk opportunities, and now the nonresident tags appear to be headed for a draw, so we'll see where it goes. . .

 

[WRO]

I seriously wonder if those of you who think point systems are good, if you also think communism and socialism are good and claim that “it hasn’t been done correctly yet” and that’s why the other 90 percent of us don’t understand?

If that’s the case, I hear China has great hunting opportunity …

Wouldn’t communism be everyone gets the same opportunity no matter the amount/time put in?

 

[WRO]

Anyone from Idaho advocating for a point system of any kind needs their head checked. You like how other states do it?….feel free to one of those states and enjoy said “system”.

Jesus, people are dumb.

If you need an explanation as to why point systems suck…feel free to read any of a dozen posts explaining the MANY reasons to avoid it…both from Idaho residents and non-residents that have states already proving it sucks.

If you don’t follow, then you’re being deliberately obtuse or you were likely dropped on you head as a child.

Or, hear me out, are smart enough to actually figure it out and learn how to play the game.

 

[S.Clancy]

Wouldn’t communism be everyone gets the same opportunity no matter the amount/time put in?

Communism is everyone gets the same outcome, theoretically.....

 

[WRO]

Communism is everyone gets the same outcome, theoretically.....

And the same opportunity..

 

[S.Clancy]

Pts systems get bastardized by people who have been in it 10 yrs and still "haven't drawn their tag", so they start squarring points, then they try legislation to cube them, etc. Unless its pure preference, there is always random odds. Just keep everything random.

 

[WRO]

Pts systems get bastardized by people who have been in it 10 yrs and still "haven't drawn their tag", so they start squarring points, then they try legislation to cube them, etc. Unless its pure preference, there is always random odds. Just keep everything random.

I like the 75/25 systems, even a 50/50 system points vs random work well.

People will always complain about tag allocation systems, because the demand far outweighs the availability. For residents they stabilize out on low to mid tier tags relatively quickly (Subject to population fluctuations) Top tier tags will always be hard to draw.

Non residents get scraps no matter the state (except Colorado)

As the population grows and our winter range turns into houses, there will be more and more reduction in opportunities. From being here for 5 years, it feels like it’s 25 years behind some of our neighboring states. Hopefully they get ahead of it and preserve our herds, instead of trying to kill the last one for a tag fee.

 

[S.Clancy]

I like the 75/25 systems, even a 50/50 system points vs random work well.

People will always complain about tag allocation systems, because the demand far outweighs the availability. For residents they stabilize out on low to mid tier tags relatively quickly (Subject to population fluctuations) Top tier tags will always be hard to draw.

Non residents get scraps no matter the state (except Colorado)

As the population grows and our winter range turns into houses, there will be more and more reduction in opportunities. From being here for 5 years, it feels like it’s 25 years behind some of our neighboring states. Hopefully they get ahead of it and preserve our herds, instead of trying to kill the last one for a tag fee.

Pts systems work great for 2 types of people; people who get in on the ground floor and people who are ok going to the "lesser" units.

I get to hunt plenty of states knowing how to use pts systems, but I would still rather not have them.

 

[BRTreedogs]

I have 17 points for deer in Oregon and feel they are about as close to worthless as anything can be.

 

[IdahoBeav]

I have 17 points for deer in Oregon and feel they are about as close to worthless as anything can be.

I won't ever have more than 4-6 going forward. There are some decent hunts to be had in that range.

 

[S.Clancy]

I won't ever have more than 4-6 going forward. There are some decent hunts to be had in that range.

Lies...

 

[bdg848]

Long time applicants still have an advantage in terms of probability of drawing a tag over time in a random system. The more you apply the more likely you are to draw. The probability of being successful one time over the course of multiple trials is given by this formula:

1-(1-P)^n

Where n is the number of trials and P is odds of drawing. So for example if there is a hunt that typically has 20% odds of drawing a tag and you applied for 5 years. The probability that you would draw the tag at least once is = 1- (1-0.2)^5; That calculates out to 67%. If you apply for 10 years it comes out to 89%.

So while your odds of drawing in any single year are the same as everyone else, your probability of drawing over time slowly approaches but will never reach 100%. Think about it terms of dice rolls. The odds of rolling a 6 on any given attempt are always 1/6 or ~16.7%. However, if you roll the dice multiple times you will eventually roll a six. Yes each dice roll is independent of each other just like each year of applying for a tag is independent of previous years but if you apply 10 times you are more likely to draw than someone who only applies once.

Let's take your scenario of unit 54. Last year it had 9% drawing odds. The probability that the hunter would draw the tag at least once over the course of 15 years is 75.5%. In a pure preference point system it could take him 11 years to draw. In a 50/50 split preference/random system it could take 22 years. In a pure bonus point system it could take just as long or longer than a random system. I fail to see the advantage in all but a pure preference system and that would require a severe handicap on all future generations of applicants.

I'm on the internet too much. When I see formulas accompanied with a detailed explanation, I am never sure if I am going to get a new bit of interesting knowledge or if I am going to read three paragraphs of jargon and then get Rick Rolled at the end......This was the former, so thank you haha

 

[NRA4LIFE]

All you have to do is look at the bonus point system in place in WA and it would be a resounding NO.