Hunting Experiences with Loose Powder

[CObywayofUSAF]

I'm curious to hear if anyone has hunting experiences that dictate which powder they use? Specifically T7 Vs. BH209

A little background- I am hunting muzzleloader for the 2nd time in CO. I have hunted many years in the midwest with the pellets, but the use of loose powder is fairly new to me. I currently use T7 and haven't really had any problems, but now that BH209 is available again I find myself wanting to make the switch because of how much cleaner it is. I still have a beginner set up which is a cheap CVA Optima with Thor bullets. However, I've really taken to muzzleloader hunting since moving out west and I want to keep tweaking my set up for hunting here in Colorado.

What's really holding me back is last year my hunting partner (who uses BH) had a misfire on a really big bull. The primer went off, but no shot. We very meticulously reloaded our weapons everyday with new powder and took extra steps to keep them cased at night, clean, etc. It was dry, normal conditions in Sept high country. He also had the 209 breachplug in his. This experience was just crushing for him and it seems like its putting a mental roadblock on me using 209. We had shot together all summer and neither of us had ever had a misfire. I've hunted over 15 years muzzleloader and never had one either. I've always read about them happening but never experienced one.

With that said, what bad experiences have you had muzzleloader hunting? Did you stick with the equipment or switch it up? After that experience I hold reliability over everything else, but I'd imagine it happens to people who shoot T7 also, so I'd love to hear of some of the advice from some of the more experienced guys. Do you sacrifice some reliability to get that clean burning powder or is it typically user error?

 

[CoHiCntry]

I had it happen one time, moose hunting in CO. Snowed a ton the night before. Putting my gun in the truck & with the door open a few water drops dripped down from the truck roof. I wasn’t sure they hit my gun or not? Later that day, went to shoot at a moose & snap, nothing. Pulled the hammer back and snap again. Then ripped the cap off, replaced with a new one and snap again. By then I new it wasn’t gonna happen & the moose trotted off.

This was with a sidelock though. I hunted a bunch of years with an inline before going to traditional with both T7 & BH209 & never had a misfire. Haven’t had one since with the sidelock either. I should have checked for sure to make sure no water got into my gun so it was my fault.

 

[87TT]

I don’t think the powder was the problem. Other things can happen.

 

[CObywayofUSAF]

I don’t think the powder was the problem. Other things can happen.

No I totally get that. I'm just curious what the "other" thing could have been. It was loaded up 4 hours prior and in super standard conditions 60, dry, etc. Just trying to learn from it mainly and figure out if powder is related to reliability or what other things can be done to prevent misfires since I'm going again this year.

 

[5MilesBack]

What primer was your buddy using?

 

[CObywayofUSAF]

What primer was your buddy using?

Fed 209s

 

[OKHunter84]

I've been using BH209 for years without an issue in a lot of bad conditions. I don't reload everyday and it always goes bang still. If you have a CVA make sure you have the proper breech plug for shooting BH209 and I've always used Fiocchi primers cause they burned hotter.

The only issue I've ever had with loose powder was reloading for a second shot. I shot a buck and could still see him moving around. I was kinda shaken and accidentally spilled some powder outside of the barrel and didn't know for sure how much powder I had loaded. I just shook my gun upside down and reloaded. I always make sure I have four or five tubes on me at all times now. I was able to get a second shot in the buck and he's on the wall but definitely felt like a tender foot dumbass after that.

I shoot my sidelock with pyrodex quite a bit and it is a royal PIA to clean compared to BH209.

 

[CObywayofUSAF]

I've been using BH209 for years without an issue in a lot of bad conditions. I don't reload everyday and it always goes bang still. If you have a CVA make sure you have the proper breech plug for shooting BH209 and I've always used Fiocchi primers cause they burned hotter.

The only issue I've ever had with loose powder was reloading for a second shot. I shot a buck and could still see him moving around. I was kinda shaken and accidentally spilled some powder outside of the barrel and didn't know for sure how much powder I had loaded. I just shook my gun upside down and reloaded. I always make sure I have four or five tubes on me at all times now. I was able to get a second shot in the buck and he's on the wall but definitely felt like a tender foot dumbass after that.

I shoot my sidelock with pyrodex quite a bit and it is a royal PIA to clean compared to BH209.

We both had the 209 breech plugs. The shop we bought from recommended them for any loose powder. I only used T7 because of price since back in early 22 it was insanely expensive, which is still a factor if I switch because it isn't much cheaper now.

 

[CoHiCntry]

I think the bottom line is… if you wanna switch to BH209 then go for it. The bad experience your buddy had is an isolated event & as mentioned above probably had nothing to do with the powder.

 

[5MilesBack]

The only issue I've ever had with loose powder was reloading for a second shot. I shot a buck and could still see him moving around. I was kinda shaken and accidentally spilled some powder outside of the barrel and didn't know for sure how much powder I had loaded. I just shook my gun upside down and reloaded.

In 2017 when my middle daughter was 16 on her first elk hunt she had shot her bull. I was about 100 or so yards back and had been bugling and tearing a tree up before she shot. I came running down the hill bugling towards her. When I got there I said "did you hit him", and she said "ya, he dropped right there and then got up and ran down into that bottom". She was trying to reload and then got all flustered and said "I spilled the powder all over the place and now the bullet is stuck so I have no idea how much powder went down". I said "just ram it down". Then she snuck down and got parallel with him. He was down but trying to get up, flailing around about 40 yards away. She shot the second time and he was down for good. It's definitely not as easy as cycling a bolt on a rifle.

My youngest daughter and I were at the range a couple weeks ago and I was putting CCI 209's in the inline because I have a bunch of them and they've always worked fine with BH. But that first shot just went "pop" instead of "bang". So switched over to the CCI 209M's and never had an issue after that. But I also forgot to pop a primer off before loading it. That can make a difference too.

Ya, with BH at $160/lb I don't want to waste any of it at the range. So I've had my daughter shooting round balls with T7 just to get the trigger time in. I bought a 5lb'er before Covid for $40/lb. I can't imagine that raw material costs and manufacturing costs have gone up 300% since then.

 

[OKHunter84]

I guess I'm behind the times. I've had a couple pounds and haven't bought any in a while. I confirm zero with a few shots at the range and then hunt with a shot or two usually. I don't shoot it for fun. I've had the same scope on my CVA Accura MR for ten years and it's never needed adjusted after the initial setup.

My open sights setup is a sidelock so I don't have to worry with BH209.

I have a ton of the white hots that I tried to sell on here but nobody was interested.

 

[CObywayofUSAF]

I guess I'm behind the times. I've had a couple pounds and haven't bought any in a while. I confirm zero with a few shots at the range and then hunt with a shot or two usually. I don't shoot it for fun. I've had the same scope on my CVA Accura MR for ten years and it's never needed adjusted after the initial setup.

My open sights setup is a sidelock so I don't have to worry with BH209.

I have a ton of the white hots that I tried to sell on here but nobody was interested.

Yeah the price has gotten absolutely ridiculous, one of the reasons I may just stick with T7. The cleaning sucks but man I'm the same way and that's a lot cheaper. I shot more last summer because it was a new set up for me.

 

[OKHunter84]

Man what the hell happened? I just looked out of curiosity and the cheapest I could find was $50 for a half pound jug on the black horn website. Then you have a $15 shipping fee. You can buy a 5 # and it's $330! Wtf

 

[MallardSX2]

I blamed 209 BH for a misfire temporarily as I reloaded to put a second shot into a deer in Nebraska one year and the gun went click. I looked down and I had accidentally put the spent primer back into the damn gun.

Rookie mistake. Lol

 

[CoHiCntry]

Yeah the price has gotten absolutely ridiculous, one of the reasons I may just stick with T7. The cleaning sucks but man I'm the same way and that's a lot cheaper. I shot more last summer because it was a new set up for me.

That’s the beauty of real black powder & PRB

 

[CObywayofUSAF]

Man what the hell happened? I just looked out of curiosity and the cheapest I could find was $50 for a half pound jug on the black horn website. Then you have a $15 shipping fee. You can buy a 5 # and it's $330! Wtf

Yeah it's bad, about $90 out the door here in CO

 

[ElDiablito]

I’ve fired thousands of loads of BH209 with no misfires (if I meet two criteria). BH209 needs a mag 209 and back pressure for 100% reliability, IMO. The only time I’ve ever been able to induce a misfire was at the range trying to get BH209 to ignite without a bullet (just a wad on top of it). This convinced me that, as has been said by others through the years, for reliable ignition, BH209 needs some back pressure. So I always hunt with Fed209As and a tight fitting bullet that has been seated with about 40-60 lbs of pressure on the powder. Can you get BH209 to ignite with a low-power 209 and little back pressure? Yes, but eventually you’ll have a misfire.

That said, if you read the FAQs on the Blackhorn site, the most common reason for a misfire is a dirty flame channel. Many guys don’t realize that you have to drill the carbon out of the bp flame channel. If you don’t, you lose a lot of the 209 flame (and you get excessive pressure on the 209 because you’ve lost some of the back pressure expansion benefit of the flame channel).

So what happened in your buddies case? Who knows, but I would t be afraid to use BH209 (with the above guidelines).

If you want extra insurance against misfire, you can use a 5 gr black powder igniter charge under the main Bh209 charge. This is recommended by Hodgdon with 777 and by the late Doc White (White muzzleloaders).

 

[CObywayofUSAF]

I’ve fired thousands of loads of BH209 with no misfires (if I meet two criteria). BH209 needs a mag 209 and back pressure for 100% reliability, IMO. The only time I’ve ever been able to induce a misfire was at the range trying to get BH209 to ignite without a bullet (just a wad on top of it). This convinced me that, as has been said by others through the years, for reliable ignition, BH209 needs some back pressure. So I always hunt with Fed209As and a tight fitting bullet that has been seated with about 40-60 lbs of pressure on the powder. Can you get BH209 to ignite with a low-power 209 and little back pressure? Yes, but eventually you’ll have a misfire.

That said, if you read the FAQs on the Blackhorn site, the most common reason for a misfire is a dirty flame channel. Many guys don’t realize that you have to drill the carbon out of the bp flame channel. If you don’t, you lose a lot of the 209 flame (and you get excessive pressure on the 209 because you’ve lost some of the back pressure expansion benefit of the flame channel).

So what happened in your buddies case? Who knows, but I would t be afraid to use BH209 (with the above guidelines).

If you want extra insurance against misfire, you can use a 5 gr black powder igniter charge under the main Bh209 charge. This is recommended by Hodgdon with 777 and by the late Doc White (White muzzleloaders).

Thanks for the advice

Can you explain a little more what you mean by back pressure? As in the pressure the powder and bullet are packed with?

Sorry if that's a dumb question, but yes I think I'm going to make the switch. I'll probably use the Fed 209s if I can find them. The price does suck but I don't shoot enough for it to be that huge of a deal.

 

[frbg2019]

For what it’s worth: Last year I switched to BH209 for CO elk hunting. Triple 7 was fine, never misfired, but harder to keep clean and a touch slower.

On the range, I initially did have 2 misfires, however, I assumed they were user error and after some research, I make sure to foul the barrel with a primer or two before loading. My bore is on the loose side and the thought is there isn’t enough pressure for ignition. I also seat the bullet more firmly. I haven’t had a misfire since I started doing those things.

Unfortunately, I didn’t have a chance to take a shot in the field, but I’m confident it will fire.

 

[frbg2019]

Thanks for the advice

Can you explain a little more what you mean by back pressure? As in the pressure the powder and bullet are packed with?

Sorry if that's a dumb question, but yes I think I'm going to make the switch. I'll probably use the Fed 209s if I can find them. The price does suck but I don't shoot enough for it to be that huge of a deal.

I think by back pressure we mean the pressure created by the firing of the primer. In modern muzzleloader the powder ignites by heat, but much of that heat is created by pressure. Basically an increase in pressure also results in a sufficient increase in temperature to ignite the powder (pv=nrt where p is pressure and t is temperature; so as p goes up, so will t).