Hunting Ethics

[Rob5589]

Hey guys so I had something pretty unreal happen to me last weekend while bow hunting elk. I shot a herd bull in the morning around 8am. Arrow went in only about 8 inches and looked like it may have clipped the back end of his shoulder blade when he flinched when the bow went off. Unlucky and I should have drifted off his shoulder more. I saw he was pouring blood but seemed to not act sickly but made his way down the hill over a little rise back to where his cows were. After seeing how much blood was coming out of him and where the arrow was/penetration I figured I must have only got one lung. So I decide I would sit on him for 5-6 hours hoping he would either bleed out, or settle back down so I could sneak in and get another arrow in him. After sitting there for about 45 minutes I see two spikes and a raghorn coming up the bottom towards me. I don't think much of it and after about 15 minutes they disappear behind the hill where my bull and his cows are. Right as they disappear two guys come running down the hillside next to me. I whistle and stop then and go over to talk to them. I explain my situation. They tell me that they really need to kill a bull and that they are going down after that raghorn and will try not to bump my bull. To back up we are in a trophy unit about 5 miles away from the vehicles. I can't believe it. I think well since they are going down there I might as well try and sneak in and see if my bull is dead or if I can get another arrow in him before they blow the whole thing wide open. As I make my way down there and start tracking can see he is coughing up blood which pretty well confirms the one lung shot. Suddenly I here crashing and look up to see the spikes and raghorn round the corner and take off up the hill past me. 2 minutes later just below the rise where I can't see that hillside erupts. Can't see any elk but assume it's my bull and his cows. Sure enough 30 seconds later the guys come over the hill inform me it was infact my bull they saw trailing his cows as he disappeared over the hill side towards private. They tell me they have shot that raghorn and his mechanical didn't deploy right and only got about 2 inches of penetration. They leave and wish me luck. My question is, is it unrealistic to assume that people would have common respect for their fellow hunter and back out and leave elk if it meant another person could get/have a chance at their own? Or is it just part of the game and it's every man for himself now? Just want to know if my anger and frustration is misguided? Thanks guys and sorry for the long post!

Always two sides to every story. Sounds like the dudes were trying to kill that raghorn, which came along where you were waiting for the outcome of your bull. Should they stop hunting that raghorn because of your situation? May be the last elk they have a chance at. Kind of a big ask, IMO.

 

[Dos Perros]

I bet I could pick out the only children posting in this thread.

 

[Reburn]

Always two sides to every story. Sounds like the dudes were trying to kill that raghorn, which came along where you were waiting for the outcome of your bull. Should they stop hunting that raghorn because of your situation? May be the last elk they have a chance at. Kind of a big ask, IMO.

IMO he was there hunting.
Take the wounded bull out of the equation. Would it have been ok for them to bomb into an area chasing a bull that went over to where some other guy was hunting.
IMO no that would have been a dick move as he was there hunting first.

Reverse the situation. If you were waiting for the wind to shift to approach a big bull and some other dudes rolled over the hill chasing a big bull that went right to your big bull so they busted both out would you be angry?

 

[Xprmntl]

You don't spook them and they go about 100-150 yards, you spook them and they go 1000-2000 yards or more. That kind of exponentially.

okay, so an exponent of ~1.5

 

[adowney15]

Always two sides to every story. Sounds like the dudes were trying to kill that raghorn, which came along where you were waiting for the outcome of your bull. Should they stop hunting that raghorn because of your situation? May be the last elk they have a chance at. Kind of a big ask, IMO.

So you think asking someone not to **** up you hunt and loose another chance or all together your bull is a big ask?? Ok I'll throw this knowledge out there which may or may not change you mind. They were locals and the season goes for over a month during rifle. Highly doubt thats the last bull he will chase in a trophy unit with over another month to hunt.

 

[Rob5589]

IMO he was there hunting.
Take the wounded bull out of the equation. Would it have been ok for them to bomb into an area chasing a bull that went over to where some other guy was hunting.
IMO no that would have been a dick move as he was there hunting first.

Reverse the situation. If you were waiting for the wind to shift to approach a big bull and some other dudes rolled over the hill chasing a big bull that went right to your big bull so they busted both out would you be angry?

I agree with what you're saying in the first part. The second part is just part of public land hunting.

So you think asking someone not to **** up you hunt and loose another chance or all together your bull is a big ask?? Ok I'll throw this knowledge out there which may or may not change you mind. They were locals and the season goes for over a month during rifle. Highly doubt that's the last bull he will chase in a trophy unit with over another month to hunt.

Like I said, we have your side of the situation. You're asking people to critique/judge what you claim happened. That's what I did. Not trying to be a Richard but, now you throw in a little more "color" to the incident.

Sucks you lost the bull. Sounds like a crappy situation all around.

 

[Reburn]

I agree with what you're saying in the first part. The second part is just part of public land hunting.

Fair enough. I mostly only hunt private anymore. Maybe I'm just sheltered.

 

[Kevin Dill]

Public land has a much greater tendency toward free-for-all hunting and hunters. People are often frankly competitive there, and many lack any kind of behavioral limits aside from legal vs illegal.

 

[sndmn11]

I would probably be pretty dumbfounded to meet someone in the woods who says they shot a bull an hour ago and have made no attempt to track it.

My ethics tell me that it is wounded and needs to be shot again if it is still alive after 30min, and that is a stretch.

 

[Marble]

I would probably be pretty dumbfounded to meet someone in the woods who says they shot a bull an hour ago and have made no attempt to track it.

My ethics tell me that it is wounded and needs to be shot again if it is still alive after 30min, and that is a stretch.

30 minutes if it runs out of sight and you don't know if it fell over at minimum. Then, depending on a lot of factors it's wise to wait. The point is to let the animal relax bed down and bleed out without covering ground. If you push an animal that still a lot left in the tank, most likely you'll loose it.

I think the OP did the right thing in waiting.

The only time I've lost wounded animals is when they were either not mortally wounded, or we miscalculated the severity of the wounds.

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[S.Clancy]

I would probably be pretty dumbfounded to meet someone in the woods who says they shot a bull an hour ago and have made no attempt to track it.

My ethics tell me that it is wounded and needs to be shot again if it is still alive after 30min, and that is a stretch.

Eh, I wait an hour for elk if I don't see them tip over. But that's me

 

[Traveler]

There’s another thread up about someone finding fake “area closed” forest service signs. Its unrealistic to expect people to just ok we’ll completely change our plans.

 

[sndmn11]

The only time I've lost wounded animals is when they were either not mortally wounded, or we miscalculated the severity of the wounds.

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My perspective is that I want to learn as much about the shot and the animal as quickly as possible. I also can't find an animal if I am not looking for it.

In my eyes, if I am needing an animal to die from loss of blood over an hour, I could be doing a better job as a hunter who respects the animal I am pursuing. Priority one is the animal whether I am the first hunter, a helper, or another hunter who comes across the scene. Considering that life ceases in a few minutes, the shot animal is either dead, suffering, or is a-ok and a suffering death sounds terrible. Nobody knows until they figure it out.

If I came across this scenario, I sure would be questioning the recovery efforts of hunter one, just in the same way some folks are questioning the recovery efforts of the dudes who showed up and gave hunter one the courtesy of pursuing the small bull instead of the big bull.

 

[adowney15]

My perspective is that I want to learn as much about the shot and the animal as quickly as possible. I also can't find an animal if I am not looking for it.

In my eyes, if I am needing an animal to die from loss of blood over an hour, I could be doing a better job as a hunter who respects the animal I am pursuing. Priority one is the animal whether I am the first hunter, a helper, or another hunter who comes across the scene. Considering that life ceases in a few minutes, the shot animal is either dead, suffering, or is a-ok and a suffering death sounds terrible. Nobody knows until they figure it out.

If I came across this scenario, I sure would be questioning the recovery efforts of hunter one, just in the same way some folks are questioning the recovery efforts of the dudes who showed up and gave hunter one the courtesy of pursuing the small bull instead of the big bull.

Man I'm not sure how many elk you have killed nor do I care but I have even shot elk with a rifle and unfortunately "life does not end in a matter of minutes" they are tough and can take some serious time to die. It's unfortunate and trust me I wish they would just die, but they don't. As far as tracking and pursuing right after a shot being the ethical thing to do I would completely disagree. In this situation I knew pretty much exactly what happened. Waiting for an animal to die or to settle down so that you don't bump in and lose him for good seems totally ethical to me. You also fail to realize that hunter two not only blew out my elk resulting in the lose of that animal but then wounded another. Doesn't seem ethical in anyway shape or form to me.

 

[sndmn11]

In this situation I knew pretty much exactly what happened.

Sure seems like that statement couldn't be further from the truth. The elk you were waiting on to die, was rutting up his harem while you were none the wiser as to his location or condition.

Remember, you also wounded and lost an elk, just like you claim hunter two did. The handful of elk kills I have been apart of ended up either not being demi-elk, or they were shot in the lungs. All have been recovered within a pitching wedge. What did you learn about his wound from tracking him?

 

[adowney15]

Sure seems like that statement couldn't be further from the truth. The elk you were waiting on to die, was rutting up his harem while you were none the wiser as to his location or condition.

Remember, you also wounded and lost an elk, just like you claim hunter two did. The handful of elk kills I have been apart of ended up either not being demi-elk, or they were shot in the lungs. All have been recovered within a pitching wedge. What did you learn about his wound from tracking him?

I'm sorry but I had a pretty good idea where he was and how on earth do you know he was rutting up his harem or not? He definitely was not as after tracking him I could tell he had slowed down and stood in one spot for a while dripping/coughing blood. You're right I did lose an elk but I would argue I may not have lost him either by him bleeding out and dying or sneaking in to get another shot but those options were taken away. What I learned from tracking him was what I already knew. One lung shot. Coughing up blood. Enough life after being bumped after an hour to run onto private. Which is why I wanted to wait for him to die, or bed for another shot opportunity.

 

[MattB]

I would probably be pretty dumbfounded to meet someone in the woods who says they shot a bull an hour ago and have made no attempt to track it.

My ethics tell me that it is wounded and needs to be shot again if it is still alive after 30min, and that is a stretch.

Not sure how many elk you have archery killed, but IMO you are way off base suggesting the OP should have started tracking the bull that quickly.

 

[sndmn11]

I'm sorry but I had a pretty good idea where he was and how on earth do you know he was rutting up his harem or not? He definitely was not as after tracking him I could tell he had slowed down and stood in one spot for a while dripping/coughing blood. You're right I did lose an elk but I would argue I may not have lost him either by him bleeding out and dying or sneaking in to get another shot but those options were taken away. What I learned from tracking him was what I already knew. One lung shot. Coughing up blood. Enough life after being bumped after an hour to run onto private. Which is why I wanted to wait for him to die, or bed for another shot opportunity.

Well, I read about it.

I saw he was pouring blood but seemed to not act sickly but made his way down the hill over a little rise back to where his cows were...

...

2 minutes later just below the rise where I can't see that hillside erupts. Can't see any elk but assume it's my bull and his cows. Sure enough 30 seconds later the guys come over the hill inform me it was infact my bull they saw trailing his cows as he disappeared over the hill side towards private.

Your apathy allowed two other hunters who had not previously seen "your" bull, lay eyes on "your" bull, when you had not accomplished the same feat in your own tracking.

Not sure how many elk you have archery killed, but IMO you are way off base suggesting the OP should have started tracking the bull that quickly.

They aren't super heroes, the live and die just like any other animal. If they aren't dead within trailing time, then they need some help from the hunter, and probably could have used a bit more respect from that hunter in making better decisions before the shot. Again, they have lungs, a heart, and a brain and can die just as readily as all other mammals.

 

[Laramie]

I understand what Sndmn is saying but I disagree with some. Like I posted earlier, perspective didn't always equal reality. If after finding blood and the trail, I question the hit, I wait an additional 30 minutes or longer. Learned this the hard way. Getting a second shot into a wounded elk can be extremely challenging and also leads to elk traveling very far in some instances. I have been a part of quite a few of those where the elk was eventually recovered. Single lung hits have been about 50%. Of those. One bull made it well over a mile after being jumped at the 1 hour mark. Thankfully it was open country so we knew where he bedded. We waited 8 hours to move in and recovered the bull. He was dead but didn't appear to have been dead very long.

 

[adowney15]

Well, I read about it.

...

Your apathy allowed two other hunters who had not previously seen "your" bull, lay eyes on "your" bull, when you had not accomplished the same feat in your own tracking.

They aren't super heroes, the live and die just like any other animal. If they aren't dead within trailing time, then they need some help from the hunter, and probably could have used a bit more respect from that hunter in making better decisions before the shot. Again, they have lungs, a heart, and a brain and can die just as readily as all other mammals.

Wow man you're way off base in just assuming I have no respect for animals or don't take time to process what shots I'm willing and not willing to take. You seem to know me better than myself and my blatant lack of respect for the animals I harvest. Just a little key board wizard. Moderator feel free to shut this thread down it has lost its original intent to make others put themselves in someone else's shoes and has become a bashing high horse party. No need for that here.