howa 1500 and howa mini action torgue

[Foster_65]

i am having a heck of a time with these howa actions and getting them tight without inducing torque on the action. both are bedded into stockys VG stocks where i did NOT leave any clearance between the bottom fo the lug and bedding like you would with a Remington. ive tried about every which way, read all i can and no matter what i try, i can still feel it moving when i start to tighten action screws. i usually grip the barrel and forend with one hand lightly so i can feel the barrel or stock moving when i tighten screws. it just seems like there is something with the front action screw being in the lug. never had this problem with Remington type actions. so how is everyone doing this. i would assume weatherbys would be in the same boat but i am unfamiliar with them. does anyone have any methods. or know what the heck im missing?
thanks

 

[PineBrook413]

Curious if anyone has some input on this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pbroski]

How does it shoot?

Mine has a Stocky carbon fiber stock. I bedded it with pillars. There's no stress now. Pictured on the left is my latest 10 shot group. It's .223 and group is .843".

 

[Foster_65]

Well one is a 6 arc and groups are around 1.5-2 moa. Just seems like there is always flyers that knock it way off. Pillars may be the answer. Just frustrated because there is always movement when alternating torque especially when just starting to torque. I just can’t imagine this is helping with accuracy. Most importantly I do t think I’ll ever have constancy if I have to remove barreled action and put it back in.

 

[sndmn11]

Are you using the plastic bottom?

 

[Foster_65]

On the mini, yes. But the 1500 is steel and have same issue

 

[sndmn11]

On the mini, yes. But the 1500 is steel and have same issue

I do front 20-25, the back, then the front to 65. I think you should stick some paper underneath the action behind the lug and see if you can pull it out. It should be free floated there if it hasn't been bedded yet. Torque the back up to 65 as long as that part of the action is free floated.

I have cracked the plastic bottom on a LA vanguard before, so watch out for that or do 45.

 

[nate907]

I fought a Howa mini action in 6arc as well. I was getting the same 2moa or greater with fliers consistently. bedded with pillars, swapped scopes/rings and swapped the bottom plastic out to get greater torque values. I was ready to swap barrels out but i decided to try a different bullet. Not sure what you are shooting, but mine hates the entire Hornady 6mm line up no matter the powder choice. I use eld's in everything else i shoot, but not the Howa. Not saying all the other stuff didn't help, but Varget behind berger 105's was my answer.

 

[Foster_65]

I fought a Howa mini action in 6arc as well. I was getting the same 2moa or greater with fliers consistently. bedded with pillars, swapped scopes/rings and swapped the bottom plastic out to get greater torque values. I was ready to swap barrels out but i decided to try a different bullet. Not sure what you are shooting, but mine hates the entire Hornady 6mm line up no matter the powder choice. I use eld's in everything else i shoot, but not the Howa. Not saying all the other stuff didn't help, but Varget behind berger 105's was my answer.

Nate it sounds like your scenario is matching mine exactly. I did try some nosler 95 bts this morning and didn’t have a lot of luck. However I didn’t give a full effort. I have tried the 108 ELDM, 105 HPBT and the 95s. ive tried Leverevolution, varget and H4895. sometimes some combos show some promise then we i go to re check or shoot at distance it falls totally apart. just cant figure it out. ive been through 3 scopes as well. i just assumed it the inconstance has to do with the bedding or action torque. one problem i am having is getting enough powder in the case and not being terribly compressed. for instance 27.5 grains of varget is compressed pretty at 20 thou off lands. what is your COAL Base to Ogive? these long bullets are taking up alot of real estate. one other thing i noticed that seemed odd was when i im measuring OAL with the hornady guage, the bullet will stop but with slightly more pressure it till finally touch the lands. i cant see anything visually in the chamber with a bore scope so im wondering if there is carbon that is slightly casusing resistance of the bullet before it touches the lands? it does this with every bullet ive tried so far. i just picked up some 95 sierras to try and hopefully i can seat them farther out and maybe get more powder in. im also using starline brass and 205 primers. i anneal after every firing.

 

[Foster_65]

I do front 20-25, the back, then the front to 65. I think you should stick some paper underneath the action behind the lug and see if you can pull it out. It should be free floated there if it hasn't been bedded yet. Torque the back up to 65 as long as that part of the action is free floated.

I have cracked the plastic bottom on a LA vanguard before, so watch out for that or do 45.

sndmn11, im not sure im following what your saying about torque and bedding. so you torque the front to 20-25, then the back to 20-25 then go back and torque all the way up to 65? are you only torquing the front to 65 or the back as well? is this with the mini and plastic BM. im not sure the plastic will hold up to the 65, id be nervous at 45 from what i have read. im currently at 30lbs. is that not enough?

as far as the bedding are you saying only the recoil luq is bedded. the flat part (underside) of the action from the lug to the mag recess should be floating? i definatley bedded that area with no relief in that area.

 

[nate907]

Nate it sounds like your scenario is matching mine exactly. I did try some nosler 95 bts this morning and didn’t have a lot of luck. However I didn’t give a full effort. I have tried the 108 ELDM, 105 HPBT and the 95s. ive tried Leverevolution, varget and H4895. sometimes some combos show some promise then we i go to re check or shoot at distance it falls totally apart. just cant figure it out. ive been through 3 scopes as well. i just assumed it the inconstance has to do with the bedding or action torque. one problem i am having is getting enough powder in the case and not being terribly compressed. for instance 27.5 grains of varget is compressed pretty at 20 thou off lands. what is your COAL Base to Ogive? these long bullets are taking up alot of real estate. one other thing i noticed that seemed odd was when i im measuring OAL with the hornady guage, the bullet will stop but with slightly more pressure it till finally touch the lands. i cant see anything visually in the chamber with a bore scope so im wondering if there is carbon that is slightly casusing resistance of the bullet before it touches the lands? it does this with every bullet ive tried so far. i just picked up some 95 sierras to try and hopefully i can seat them farther out and maybe get more powder in. im also using starline brass and 205 primers. i anneal after every firing.

im running 28 grains of varget in starline brass with little to no compression. i do use a pretty tall drop funnel that i 3d printed however. i'll have to measure the BTO when i get home, but i usually run 30-40 thou off the lands. Are you seeing visible marks on the bullet when loading a SAMI coal or factory ammo after chambering the round? i had a similar issue with a ruger. turns out the camber was cut leaving some rifling in the leade.

Ruger American Predator 6.5 COAL too short?

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but I am relatively new to reloading and want to make sure I'm doing this correctly. Using the Hornady OAL gauge and comparator kit I measured to the lands 15 times and came out with an average CBTO (cartridge base to ogive) length of 2.0248. I backed it...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Foster_65]

im running 28 grains of varget in starline brass with little to no compression. i do use a pretty tall drop funnel that i 3d printed however. i'll have to measure the BTO when i get home, but i usually run 30-40 thou off the lands. Are you seeing visible marks on the bullet when loading a SAMI coal or factory ammo after chambering the round? i had a similar issue with a ruger. turns out the camber was cut leaving some rifling in the leade.

Ruger American Predator 6.5 COAL too short?

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but I am relatively new to reloading and want to make sure I'm doing this correctly. Using the Hornady OAL gauge and comparator kit I measured to the lands 15 times and came out with an average CBTO (cartridge base to ogive) length of 2.0248. I backed it...

www.snipershide.com

no i cant say there is visible marks. im using the hornady COAL guage with whatever bullet im planning to test. each one feels the resistance before it contacts lands. when using the gauge, you can see some (very slight) marks on the copper jacket. when looking with bore scope, the chamber and throat look really good. im just wondering if there is a bit of carbon build up that is in there. ill give it a good scrub tonight. im definately conpressed at 28. if i vibrate with a tooth brush you can just barely hear/feel a crunch. if i just throw a charge its a significant crunch and that is about 20 off lands. i measured some factory rounds and they were nearly 50 off. that was the 108 hornady ammo. this ammo actually shot pretty decent. the 10 shot group was about 1.5 moa, with 2 flyers. 8 of 10 were in an moa or slightly less. i could deal with that but those 2 were way out of nowhere. maybe i need to not worry about velocity and see if it likes being further from the lands. i havent seen a significant difference in seating depth and usually start 20 off and try to fine to a load from that. id say usually results arent conclusive enough to matter however i usually go in 10 thou adjustments maybe 20- 30 thou one way or the other. nothing extreme

 

[BBob]

both are bedded into stockys VG stock

The inlets for the Howa's on these stocks suck. They need to be bedded. I've messed with 3 of them and they all create bind.

Chambering has been hit or miss too. Out of 3 one had a very obvious off center throat. Not very optimal to get something like that to shoot well.

 

[Foster_65]

The inlets for the Howa's on these stocks suck. They need to be bedded. I've messed with 3 of them and they all create bind.

Chambering has been hit or miss too. Out of 3 one had a very obvious off center throat. Not very optimal to get something like that to shoot well.

the off center throat could be an issue, im not sure i could diagnose that with what i have. how did you discover this and did you send it back to howa? ive heard horror stories about that that.

 

[BBob]

Bore scope to see the throat. No, he chose to leave it as is. It's beater truck gun (Mini .223 in a Hunter Accublock not a VG).

 

[Foster_65]

So does everyone that beds howas relieve the flat bottom of the action ?

 

[nate907]

So does everyone that beds howas relieve the flat bottom of the action ?

i just did the tang, recoil lug and a bit of the barrel shank.

 

[pbroski]

So does everyone that beds howas relieve the flat bottom of the action ?

I bedded the whole action from the tang to about 1.5" in front of the recoil lug. No relieving anywhere except behind the tang. The rest of the barrel is freefloated.

When I bought the rifle I pillar bedded it, then tried Berger 75 VLD and Hornady 75 ELD-M with both H4895 and Varget. Tried varying powder charges and seating depths. It shot terrible with everything I tried. I was getting 2.5 to 3 inch 10 shot groups.

I then tried 69 TMK with H4895 and it shot much better. About 1.5 moa average for 10 rounds at various distances up to 825 yards.

Then I tried 73 ELD-M's with H4895 and was getting an average of about 1.25 MOA for 10 at 825 yards with a good seating depth. Now after aver 900 shots on the barrel with the same load, as well as with Staball Match, I regularly see well under 1 moa. So the rifle has improved over time.

What I'm getting at is that maybe you have not found the right load for your rifle yet. And a stress-free bedding job will definitely not hurt.

 

[Foster_65]

I bedded the whole action from the tang to about 1.5" in front of the recoil lug. No relieving anywhere except behind the tang. The rest of the barrel is freefloated.

When I bought the rifle I pillar bedded it, then tried Berger 75 VLD and Hornady 75 ELD-M with both H4895 and Varget. Tried varying powder charges and seating depths. It shot terrible with everything I tried. I was getting 2.5 to 3 inch 10 shot groups.

I then tried 69 TMK with H4895 and it shot much better. About 1.5 moa average for 10 rounds at various distances up to 825 yards.

Then I tried 73 ELD-M's with H4895 and was getting an average of about 1.25 MOA for 10 at 825 yards with a good seating depth. Now after aver 900 shots on the barrel with the same load, as well as with Staball Match, I regularly see well under 1 moa. So the rifle has improved over time.

What I'm getting at is that maybe you have not found the right load for your rifle yet. And an stress-free bedding job will definitely not hurt.

Thank you that helps.
Maybe I need to add pillars but not sure how to achieve stress free at this point. Maybe stress free is not the correct word, maybe torque free. I’ve bedded A ton of Remington style actions and never had any trouble. I now have 2 Howas that I’ve bedded (and rebedded) multiple times and no matter what I do, when I start torquing screws, I can feel that barrel teetering up by the end of the forend of the stock. I’ve read about @hereinaz method for howa action screws and have tried to replicate but I guess I seems no matter what I can feel the dreaded tweeter

 

[BBob]

Are you having issues with bedding Howa actions in general or are you having issues with bedding the VG stock? If specifically the VG stock the stepped Accublock can be an issue when bedding. I remove/relieve material so it isn’t touching the lug pre-bedding.