How to use a mil/mil scope-reticle, turrets and proper usage

[rifletuner]

Download strelok pro app amd get access to a chrono.

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

Pretty sure you cant anymore. Strelok pro is my favourite and its still on my phone, but he's been banned from the the Google & Apple stores because he's Russian.

 

[Jake Leibke]

Pretty sure you cant anymore. Strelok pro is my favourite and its still on my phone, but he's been banned from the the Google & Apple stores because he's Russian.

I just upgraded phones and Strelok is no longer available… had it on the old one and can’t get it on the new. Was my go to app as well. Pretty bummed, lost all my rifle data I had stored there well. Now need to create new rifle profiles in another app. Playing with Hornady 4DOF and shooter. I don’t like the shooter app as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TX_Diver]

@Formidilosus What is the distance from center of bore to top of the tikka rail?

I know my ring height but am not sure how to measure the center of bore to the top of the action to get a true scope height.

Unless I'm misunderstanding and it's just the distance from the top of the action? That seems like it'd leave room for error as it'd vary across different rifles?

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus What is the distance from center of bore to top of the tikka rail?

I know my ring height but am not sure how to measure the center of bore to the top of the action to get a true scope height.

Unless I'm misunderstanding and it's just the distance from the top of the action? That seems like it'd leave room for error as it'd vary across different rifles?

Tikkas are easy, the ejection port bottom is center of bore. Just measure from center of scope to bottom of ejection port. Measure the red line.

 

[TX_Diver]

Tikkas are easy, the ejection port bottom is center of bore. Just measure from center of scope to bottom of ejection port. Measure the red line.

View attachment 572509

Didn’t know that… thanks!

 

[Mr Xv3]

Amazing info! @Formidilosus - this is the most succinct explanation of using mils I have seen.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

So mil or moa dosnt really mater if you’re using a dope chart?

 

[Formidilosus]

So mil or moa dosnt really mater if you’re using a dope chart?

Yes and no. The process for zeroing, trueing, etc is the same. However there are several massive advantages that mil offers that does not happen with MOA.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

Reason I ask is I have a new NXS 2.5x10x42 with the moar reticle that got the most recommendations due to the reticle being the best for hunting vs the mill version.I will be hunt only with some longer range practice and doubting the decision and wondering if the mill version should be revisited.

 

[DakotaBPNW]

Reason I ask is I have a new NXS 2.5x10x42 with the moar reticle that got the most recommendations due to the reticle being the best for hunting vs the mill version.I will be hunt only with some longer range practice and doubting the decision and wondering if the mill version should be revisited.

If you already own the scope I wouldn’t sweat it. Especially if your main use is hunting with the scope. MIL does offer it’s advantages but in your use case I think you’ll be very happy with that scope on MOA.

 

[Formidilosus]

Reason I ask is I have a new NXS 2.5x10x42 with the moar reticle that got the most recommendations due to the reticle being the best for hunting vs the mill version.I will be hunt only with some longer range practice and doubting the decision and wondering if the mill version should be revisited.

That depends. Were it me, yes- without question I would swap for a mil/mil scope. Two things that can be done in the field under stress, and under time that is either extremely difficult or not possible with MOA- “quick drop” and wind brackets. You will not see or hear many people that will say you can do “quick drop” with MOA at all, and while people will say that you can do wind brackets with MOA, in thousands of hunters and shooters, I have never seen one be able to do it in the field quickly on an animal. Doing both with Mil is easy peasy.

 

[Rooggvc]

“quick drop” and wind brackets…..Doing both with Mil is easy peasy.

@Formidilosus would you have an article or a Rokslide thread you could recommend for learning to use mil scopes for “quick drop and wind brackets“?

I have read both referenced on here multiple times and I would like to learn how to do both.

 

[cbeck36]

Yes and no. The process for zeroing, trueing, etc is the same. However there are several massive advantages that mil offers that does not happen with MOA.

I would really appreciate you elaborating on your last two posts on this thread.

 

[SouthPaw]

@Formidilosus would you have an article or a Rokslide thread you could recommend for learning to use mil scopes for “quick drop and wind brackets“?

I have read both referenced on here multiple times and I would like to learn how to do both.

MK5 HD vs NX8 . . Thoughts?

Correction factors: Rule of thumbs to get close first, and then how to get your actual correction factor for your gun specifically. Standard base (average gun)= 100- 0 200- .5 300- 1 400- 2 500- 3 600- 4 So what happens when you have a combo that shoots faster than 2800’ish fps or slower...

rokslide.com

Start at post 91.

 

[Formidilosus]

MK5 HD vs NX8 . . Thoughts?

Correction factors: Rule of thumbs to get close first, and then how to get your actual correction factor for your gun specifically. Standard base (average gun)= 100- 0 200- .5 300- 1 400- 2 500- 3 600- 4 So what happens when you have a combo that shoots faster than 2800’ish fps or slower...

rokslide.com

Start at post 91.

Thank you.

 

[Rooggvc]

Wind brackets

A wind bracket is a certain full value speed of wind in MPH that drifts the bullet .1 mil per 100 yards.

For example-

Wind holds for a 338 Lapua with 300gr Berger-

100- .1
200- .2
300- .3
400- .4
500- .5
600- .6
Etc.



Wind holds for a 223 with 77gr TMK-

100- .1
200- .2
300- .3
400- .4
500- .5
600- .6
Etc.


Those are the base number, and they do not change for any chambering. The difference is that the 223 drifts that much with a 4mph full value wind, the 338 drifts that much in an 8 mph full value wind. This allows one to have the exact same wind call/wind process with every chambering and rifle, the only difference is what wind speed causes the drift.


For normal chamberings with MV’s between 2,400’ish and 2,900’ish FPS, and BC’s between .3-.7 G1, the first number of your bullets G1 BC is the MPH that for that gun. You can round up or down.

For instance, a G1 BC of .612 with a MV of 2,750fps, has a wind bracket of 6 miles per hour. So a full value (straight right to left, or left to right wind) will drift this gun/bullet .1 mils per hundred yards.

Muzzle velocity and environment effects this a bit. For grappling_hook’s example he was faster than 2,900fps, and I guessed at the BC at .4 (it’s actually .409). I am also at 5,000ft density altitude- those two things combined, that is higher MV and higher DA, gives his example a 1mph advantage.


Brackets are not used for absolute precision because you’re not getting that with wind anyways, all the weather meter does is give you what it’s doing at the shooter, which you can learn to feel and judge without the meter… not that you shouldn’t use one. And brackets usually start wandering from the .1 mil per 100 yard path somewhere between 600-700. But, to ensure you have the correct MPH for your gun, take your app set it to 600 yards with your gun, set the wind direction to 90° then change the wind speed in MPH until at 600 yards it says you need .6 mil correction. That MPH is the bracket. That’s the basics.




The difference between brackets with mil and MOA isn’t just not needing the ballistic program, it’s the flow. The way the brain works, and the way it thinks about numbers. Yes, you can work a system for MOA, but it isn’t clean and it doesn’t come nearly as quickly as mils.

 

[Rooggvc]

Elevation. The idea that you’re going to be able to pull a kestrel or ballistic app out for every shot on animals is ludicrous… Unless you give up ton of opportunities. That’s not my goal. My goal is to be able kill every animal I see regardless of distance or time. And once you decide to shoot, every single thing that pulls you out of the scope, decreases the likelihood of killing that animal, or increases the likelihood of a rodeo or losing the animal with a wound.

Reducing as many variables as possible increases the hit rate. However, you have the time that the animal gives, and the time that it takes you personally to make the shot. What this is about is decreasing the amount of time you need to make a shot. The below (and the corrected versions) will you get you within .1 mil out to 600’ish yards with the vast majority of gun combos.


Memorize a base.

This is mils

100- 0
200- .5
300- 1
400- 2
500- 3
600- 4

That’s your base. Notice, every 100 yards is a mil. That means every 10 yards is .1mil. That’s critical.

Now, take the above and apply it. Target at 530 yards. Take the first number and take 2 off= “3”. Then the last two becomes the second number, “3”. The drop is 3.3 mils.

Round up or down as appropriate for the last two numbers.


416= 2.2 mils
373= 1.7 mils
564= 3.6 mils
310= 1.1 mils
598= 4.0 mils


The base works for standard rounds- 2,600-2,800fps MV with BC’s between .4-.6. That’s most gun/bullet combos. However, it doesn’t cover them all.

 

[Rooggvc]

Correction factors:


Rule of thumbs to get close first, and then how to get your actual correction factor for your gun specifically.


Standard base (average gun)=

100- 0
200- .5
300- 1
400- 2
500- 3
600- 4


So what happens when you have a combo that shoots faster than 2800’ish fps or slower than 2,500’ish with a low BC? General rule is “Bad Gun”, “Average Gun”, “Good Gun”.

Average is the standard above.

Bad= Add .5 mils past 300 to the base.

Good= Take .5 mils off the base past 300 from the base.

How I did @grappling_hook 270 combo is to use the corrections. The BC is .4, but the MV is above 2,900’ish. That means is a “good gun”. He gave 480 yards, base is “2.8 mils”, but it’s a “good gun”, so take .5 mils off. The correction is “elevation 2.3 mils”. How well does it work? The actual correction is 2.2 mils at 5K DA. That’s a .1 mil error= 1.7 inches. Having never shot the rifle, didn’t put it into a calculator, and with 5’ish seconds of getting the range/gun info, I would have killed any big game animal on earth.


If it’s a “Bad Gun”. That is low MV, and/or low BC, add .5 mils to the base. Do not let the numbers overwhelm you. This takes less than 30 minutes to have a solid handle on it with paper practice.

Think critically: Who has a higher chance of killing an animal given all else being equal- a person that needs to look at a drop chart for both wind and elevation adding that time to make the shot? Or a person that can do it in their head in less time than it takes to chamber a round?

 

[Rooggvc]

So I want to make sure I am thinking along the correct lines with this Quick Drop stuff.

I ran my ballistics app using a 108 ELDM @ 3000 fps. To get my estimated "quick drops" to match dead on with the calculator, or to be within .1 mil, I had to deduct higher values from the base as my distance increased.

For my from 300-400 Yard I deducted .5 mils. From 400-500 I deducted .7 mils. From 500-600 I deducted 1 mil.

Am I way off in my thinking or understanding of the concept? Would I be better off to average out my base deduction? How many mils off in calculation is acceptable to still hit my target? .1, .2, .3 or is that all distance dependent?

Hopefully I am making sense. It is midnight though so I may be way the hell off on grasping all this.

 

[Rooggvc]

Also with wind brackets. If I have a 4mph cartridge, do I half my corrections values for a 2mph wind, 1.5X it for a 6mph wind, and 2x it for a 8mph wind? Just wondering if it works that way?