How much is too much?

[krossh]

I'm slowly upgrading my gear and in the process of researching things I've started to wonder how much weight is too much? I'm looking specifically for a new shelter and a new sleep system. My only real requirements for a shelter are that it must hold at least 4 guys preferably with room for packs ( I've pretty much got it narrowed down to a tipi either from seek, kifaru, or TiGoat). For a sleep system, I'm really hoping to find a 0 degree or warmer. As with most gear, you get what you pay for. I've seen the -25 degree backside subzero sleeping bag on camofire at a great price but it's nearly 5 pounds. I'm asking for advice, since I have about as much experience in Ultralite as I do in rocket science. If anyone has any experience/gear recommendations I would love to hear it.

 

[muleman]

Some background info on types of hunts, time of year, location, and access method (hike, quad, car, horse) will help you get more specific recommendations.

 

[justinspicher]

I started this same plan/path last year. I tested out gear I bought used from Rokslide and craigslist during the winter to see what I thought of it during weekend camping trips with the kids and my buddies. I use a variety of goods from shelters to sleeping bags and pads to stoves. Clothing was also gone through, lucky enough my buddies and I are all about the same size so we could buy different things and everyone got to test them out. I haven't gotten it figured out or perfected it by no means, but I've gotten my packing list narrowed down pretty good so far. There's a lot of research to be done on this subject, but there are way more options now than five years ago. What I have found out is that your location and fitness level really play a part in clothing and gear selection. Good luck in your search, you'll end up like te rest of us with more gear in you closet that doesn't get used than the gear you are actually using.

 

[krossh]

Well I hunt all over MT but since I live on the west slope of the rockies now, I'm getting more into the steep and deep country. and temps can range from the 80's to below zero real quick. I hike in mostly. no quads or pickups. I do have access to horses but rarely use them. I'm looking mostly to expand my capabilities and hunting range. Wanting to get up to Alaska to hunt caribou and moose. I don't dare get too far into some of the country around here (Bob Marshall) because the gear I have is heavy and 15 miles is a lot when you've got that kind of a load. Did this help?

 

[Manosteel]

Start with high quality boots and pack. Those are the two most important pieces of gear when you start getting into the high country. These two items can literally make a world of difference in whether the hunt was enjoyable or a something you would not want to ever do again. Read some recent threads blisters and pack fit.

One other important question is do you plan on going solo or in a group. If in a group then shelter options open up as weight can be shared. If you plan on going out with 3 or more guys and sharing a shelter, tipi is the way to go. The companies you mention are all good. Throw in a stove jack and pick up an ultra light stove and you will be good to go in all kinds of weather.

Sleeping bag, I would highly recommend going with a quilt, they are light and warm with an excellent ability to regulate heat. I went with a quilt this year and will never go back to a normally sleeping bag. I slept soooo well on my hunts this year I had a hard time wanting to get out of bed. First time ever, usually I am restless and moving all the time, waking up etc... but this year with a quilt I slept like a baby. Awesome! Read Littlebuf's reviews on the Revelation X 20 degree quilt. http://www.rokslide.com/forums/showthread.php?6186-revalation-x-20*-long-wide&highlight=quilt

That's what I used this year and I can't say enough good things about it. Buying my wife and kid’s quilts, no more sleeping bags for us.

Get a good sleeping pad, lots of good options under 20 oz. Look online for sales, this year I pick up a Hyalite Equip Classic AC pad (R-value 2) 15.9oz - from campsaver for $20 and I had no issues with it what so ever.


Get a havalon and NECK knife - under 5 oz for the pair and they will do everything you need from deboning elk to camp chores.

We need more specific questions to give better answers but if you search gear lists you will see similarities in what gets taken in and what doesn't. There is differences in what I call creature comfort stuff, as people develop their own needs/wants, but generally the basics are all the same.

Hope this helps.. but don't be afraid to ask questions, especially after you do some reading, the more you read the more questions you will have.

 

[larryschwartz]

Definitely answer muleman's questions as that will help us give good advice.

With respect to your original question of how much is too much weight, that is different for every person so what my preferred weight is does not matter to you or to Joe Blow. Only you can say how much weight are you comfortable carrying for an extended period of time and that will only come through trial and error before the hunt. It may be 50#, or as little as 45# or as much as 65#+. Once you know that you can then budget pounds and ounces for your key pieces of gear; your pack, sleep system, shelter system, cooking system, hunting gear, clothing, emergency kits and so on. Once you know these you can make a list like this to figure out how much each remaining system can use of your budget. For example:

Total Weight = 47#

Pack = 4#
Sleep System = TBD
Shelter System = TBD
Cooking system = 3#
Food (3 day trip) = 6#
Water = 5#
Hunting gear = 7#
Clothing = 5#
Miscellaneous kits = 7#
Total = 37#

That leaves you with a 10# budget for your sleep system and your shelter system; maybe 4# for sleeping and 6# for shelter, if your max weight was 47#. Once yo know your weight budget your decision making process will be easier and so will your search.

As for your shelter, if you are going to have a stove and its wood supply in it you will need to plan on three people and not four. Also, give a look at the GoLite Shangri-La 5 tipi.

For sleeping bags, definitely look for sales and coupons and other discounts, but don't get something just because it is on sale. I don't know many people who need a -25 degree F sleeping bag. Remember that most bag ratings are generous, so look for something that is 10 to 15 degrees colder than what you expect; i.e., if your coldest temps are expected to be around 30 degrees then look for a 15-20 degree bag. Also, look for the EN rating, which is a thermal rating that is very accurate. They use a mannequin that has sensors on it in the sleeping bag and put it through a series of tests/scenarios before they give it their rating. The EN Limit is what a normal adult male would be comfortable sleeping.

 

[krossh]

I'm solid on boots (a couple pairs of danners). I use a kifaru Highcamp 7k. My camo is all Kuiu now for mountain hunting. I have and use my Havalon and a good sleeping pad. This winter is strictly going to be upgrading my shelter and sleeping bag. A friend of mine has a revelation quilt and his comments are exactly the same (loves it). I'm really leaning toward that direction. For a shelter, I'm hardly ever solo, usually hunting with at least one or two and up to 6 of us on occasion. BUT, i want to have something fairly light so if I am solo, I don't feel weighted down. If I got a 6 or 8 man tipi and stove (even solo) I wouldn't mind just because I know I'll be extremely comfy when I set up camp. I think my first priortiy is a sleeping bag/quilt. I'm going to offload some gear in the forums and really look at those revelation quilts. Thanks for the help and info guys and please, if you have other ideas on how to lighten up the load please tell me!

 

[muleman]

Well I hunt all over MT but since I live on the west slope of the rockies now, I'm getting more into the steep and deep country. and temps can range from the 80's to below zero real quick. I hike in mostly. no quads or pickups. I do have access to horses but rarely use them. I'm looking mostly to expand my capabilities and hunting range. Wanting to get up to Alaska to hunt caribou and moose. I don't dare get too far into some of the country around here (Bob Marshall) because the gear I have is heavy and 15 miles is a lot when you've got that kind of a load. Did this help?

Yeah, that helps us understand what your after a little better.

For a sleeping bag, you know your body the best. I couldn't use a zero degree bag as my sole bag. It would be too warm from May-October. So you may want to look at two different temp rated bags. It all depending on when you will actually be in the field and if you sleep cold or warm. As mentioned, one option if you are set on a single sleeping insulator is a quilt. If you get too warm in a quilt it is easy to vent off the extra heat. Quilts aren't for everyone but worth considering if you are after a single do it all.

If you are looking for a relatively light shelter for 4 plus gear then you need to be looking at an 8+ man tipi. If you plan on running a stove you may want a 12 man tipi. The good news is if there are four of you you can split up common gear to help spread the load. I have a couple of buddies (and kids) who are extremely dedicated hunters. We try hard to hunt together, but anymore it rarely works out that we can all be together for a whole trip, if at all. The reason I tell you this is because I would not want a larger heavier shelter as my only shelter. Just like with the sleeping bag, one temp rating doesn't fit all situations. If it was me, I would consider a smaller 2-3 person shelter (fits 2 + gear, or 1 + gear + stove). Then if more people come they bring another smaller shelter. This provides you a lot more flexibility. If you find the need you can alway get the bigger shelter later.

 

[krossh]

You're hunting situation is similar to mine. There are 6 of us plus two kids that try and hunt with us when they can get away from school and sports but it rarely ever works out where we can all hunt together the entire trip. I'm really leaning towards an 8 man tipi + stove. unfortunately, the rest of my hunting partners don't necessarily share the monetary load. instead I bring the majority of the gear and they get to use it. I don't mind much, since the gear is mine, and I can use it all year round if i want. Or take it to Alaska when i finally get to go on my caribou/moose hunt. any idea what a revelation quilt 0 degree packs down to?

 

[Stid2677]

any idea what a revelation quilt 0 degree packs down to?

About the size of a Nalgene bottle for my 20 degree one.

 

[AK Troutbum]

Another vote here for quilts. I have an EE 10° down quilt that I use for colder weather trips and absolutely love it. As far as shelters go have you considered Seek Outside's LBO? I don't know how much money you're looking at spending, but if you can afford it, picking up two LBO's with the tarp inbetween would give you enough space for 6 people. If you were traveling solo or with a buddy you could just take one of the LBO's, and if you were traveling with three other people you could take just the two LBO's minus the tarp. If money was really no object, you could get this all in cuben fiber, it would be ultra lightweight, and you would have tons of space. Maybe just another option to think about.

 

[Floorguy]

Another vote here for quilts. I have an EE 10° down quilt that I use for colder weather trips and absolutely love it. As far as shelters go have you considered Seek Outside's LBO? I don't know how much money you're looking at spending, but if you can afford it, picking up two LBO's with the tarp inbetween would give you enough space for 6 people. If you were traveling solo or with a buddy you could just take one of the LBO's, and if you were traveling with three other people you could take just the two LBO's minus the tarp. If money was really no object, you could get this all in cuben fiber, it would be ultra lightweight, and you would have tons of space. Maybe just another option to think about.

Another vote for the EE quilt I have the rev x20 and love it. If I was looking at one option for solo trips I would follow the above advise getting an lbo 2 bases connecting tarp and 3 piece vestibule would cost less than a 6 man and give you the versatility to mix and match parts based on conditions and number of people going plus you could split the weight of the shelter between more people.

 

[Stid2677]

As to your original question,, How much is too much? I trained soldiers for over 20 years, an adult can carry 1/3 of their body weight over rough terrain for extended periods. So do the math and adjust your load as money will allow. Pack, sleeping bag and shelter should be the heavier items other than food, so they are the best place to cut some weight.

 

[krossh]

I've been a Soldier for 12 years and had heavy loads on my back numerous times. I know what I can get away with, but I'm hoping upgrading this gear will make things easier! lol, again thanks for the advice here. It seems most of you are running 10 or 20 degree quilts. Would you advise against getting a 0 degree? I do think it's a bit overkill but you never know.

 

[Ironman8]

Something that may help you lighten your sleep system is thinking of the clothes that you have in your bag as a part of your sleep system. Instead of leaving the puffy jacket in your pack while you sleep, you could wear it to bed and afford to carry a lighter bag/quilt. I do think the quilt is the way to go btw. Also I'm getting the LBO for exactly the situation you describe. Modularity. I can have a shelter for solo trips that weigh as low as 16 oz or for up to 4-6 people with a total weight of about 3 lbs and anything in between. Best part is, it's sectional and the weight can be split up between the group.

 

[AK Troutbum]

I've been a Soldier for 12 years and had heavy loads on my back numerous times. I know what I can get away with, but I'm hoping upgrading this gear will make things easier! lol, again thanks for the advice here. It seems most of you are running 10 or 20 degree quilts. Would you advise against getting a 0 degree? I do think it's a bit overkill but you never know.

The difference in weight between a 0° down quilt and a 10° or 20° down quilt is pretty minimal, that being said, I personally would opt for a little colder rated quilt. You can always aadjust it to cool off but if it's cold out and you don't have enough insulation there's not a whole lot you can do to keep warm. I think there's a whole lot to be said for having a good nights rest to energize your batteries and put you in the right state for a hard day of humping around in the mountains.

 

[bizyrok]

So the EE system is designed to only have the quilt on top of you? The quilt is attached to a pad which you lay on?

 

[Rucker61]

So the EE system is designed to only have the quilt on top of you? The quilt is attached to a pad which you lay on?

That's correct.

 

[krossh]

Man I'm thankful for all of the info. I never even considered the LBO but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes. Plus, I shot the link over to a hunting partner and if I can get him on board, we can more than double our sq. footage when we need it. plus the price point is much better than a tipi. I'm sold on the quilt and will hopefully be ordering one shortly. Once my buddy makes up his mind on getting the LBO then I will order one of them as well. Perfect setup, IMO. This literally could be a game changer for next elk season.

 

[AK Troutbum]

There's an LBO with 3 piece vestibule on backpackinglight.com for sale right now. I think he's asking $290 new, never used.