How much can i expect handloading to change the accuracy with a given bullet? And what are the performance of the average factory rifle with a variety

[pbroski]

I shoot dozens of factory rifles and barrels a year. If a rifle or barrel walks as it heats up, there something mechanically wrong. Winchesters, Remingtons, savages, Ruger’s, etc- sure their barrels suck often enough that it is a problem. Properly stress relieved barrels? No. Sako, Tikka, Blaser, Sauer, etc do not walk or move as the heat up.

How well do Kimbers usually do when the barrel heats up?

 

[Formidilosus]

How well do Kimbers usually do when the barrel heats up?

Much like winchesters, Remington’s, etc. They are variable. Sometimes Kimber is using barrels that are properly stress relieved, sometimes not.

Let’s be clear- a barrel that walks or shifts point of impact when it gets hot is a barrel or rifle that needs to be fixed. It is not “normal” or correct.

 

[Archer86]

Yeah, no. Randomly hitting a tennis ball or nickel one time each isn’t “consistency” or “always”.

Unless you can consistently do it for 10 Mondays and wendsday in a row then its proven. Or maybe one needs to do it for a year straight just to be sure

 

[Formidilosus]

Unless you can consistently do it for 10 Mondays and wendsday in a row then its proven. Or maybe one needs to do it for a year straight just to be sure

Are you actually believing that someone hitting a tennis ball at 300 yards one time, in any way says they are going to hit it every time with high probability?

 

[roadrunner]

Yeah, no. Randomly hitting a tennis ball or nickel one time each isn’t “consistency” or “always”.

Yeah, yes. That's what a one shot MOA is. Same gun, two different days, two different distances, both with a sub-MOA outcome. Hardly random.

Are you actually believing that someone hitting a tennis ball at 300 yards one time, in any way says they are going to hit it every time with high probability?

Yep. Just as believable as someone doing it with a 5 shot group at 100 yds. A barrel that walks from cold to hot isn't normal, remember?

The probability, or likelihood, is the same of making a sub-MOA shot once as it is with a five shot group. Doing the later just means you like to shoot or you're OCD with something already proven...

 

[Formidilosus]

The probability, or likelihood, is the same of making a sub-MOA shot once as it is with a five shot group.

What?

 

[roadrunner]

What?

If you miss your mark on shot number 1 less than 2 inches at 200 yds, what does that mean. If you miss your mark with 5 shots, all less than 2 inches at 200 yds, what does that mean...

 

[willfrye027]

pretty entertaining to watch the fudds argue with Form

 

[Helislacker]

pretty entertaining to watch the fudds argue with Form

You can lead a horse to water…….

 

[CobraChicken]

I think some talented fellas can just create some monster rounds. However, I've shot factory for years and never thought I missed an animal because of the rounds.

My 350$ weatherby shoots lights out, no hand loads. Puts meat on the table every year.

If yoy are target shooting way different story

 

[ssimo]

Now we’re talking. 95% probability is at 30
shots, and that is exactly what I do. Three shots (2 even) can tell you a load sucks, it can not tell you it doesn’t. 10 shot groups give a baseline indication of repeatability for most systems and starts to cross into enough satay points that decisions can be made with some degree of confidence. 3 shots is random noise that is more likely to lead you to an incorrect conclusion, than it is to lead you to a correct one. Take @cnelk target. Those three “groups” leads one to believe there is a difference between those loads- almost certainly there isn’t. Take all three, overlay them onto one target and you would see they start to form the true group- the cone. Take those same loads, reshoot them exactly the same, and again almost certainly they will change as to which is “better”.



The point of shooting “groups” is to see the difference between loads, see what size target that combination can reliably hit, and to see the true center of the cone. 3 shots does not do any of that. It is a feel good measure to lie to yourself about.

All this doesn't sound practical at all. Talking about hunting, we have to get an idea of how can we rely on the mechanical accuracy of a rifle in order to know the limitations of the equipment. That's it. No needs for a randomized controlled trial.

 

[grfox92]

All this doesn't sound practical at all. Talking about hunting, we have to get an idea of how can we rely on the mechanical accuracy of a rifle in order to know the limitations of the equipment. That's it. No needs for a randomized controlled trial.

If a 10 shot group is larger then a 3 shot group, how can you have an understanding of your rifles accuracy if you only shoot 3 shot groups?

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[MallardSX2]

3 shot groups are good enough for some people and not good enough for others. lol

Personally, I don't have the resources or $ to shoot 10 shot groups for testing loads.

I shoot 3 shot groups and then choose the best 3 shot group. Call it a day at that, save money, and go kill animals with it.

 

[MallardSX2]

^^^ If I can hit/hold a pie plate group at 500 yards, I'm good.

I limit myself to shooting 400 yards at animals anyhow.

 

[Duh]

Well, on Monday, if you can hit a tennis ball at 300 yds with your first shot, cold barrel, you'll know.

On Wednesday, if you can hit a nickel at 100 yds first shot cold, you'll know.

Did you miss on Tuesday? Just curious haha

 

[Archer86]

If a 10 shot group is larger then a 3 shot group, how can you have an understanding of your rifles accuracy if you only shoot 3 shot groups?

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If your 10 shot group is larger then the 3 shot group how can you prove its the rifle and not the operator

 

[amassi]

If your 10 shot group is larger then the 3 shot group how can you prove its the rifle and not the operator

Because it’s repeatable
Shoot enough 10 shot groups and you’ll have an actual understanding of the rifles potential
Hand same rifle to another shooter(of equal competence) and it will produce the same 10 round group size.


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[Archer86]

Because it’s repeatable
Shoot enough 10 shot groups and you’ll have an actual understanding of the rifles potential
Hand same rifle to another shooter(of equal competence) and it will produce the same 10 round group size.


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Only in a controlled environment.

 

[roadrunner]

Did you miss on Tuesday? Just curious haha

No, dentist appointment

 

[roadrunner]

pretty entertaining to watch the fudds argue with Form

About as entertaining as Form not catching on to simple concepts