Hornady describes difference between ELD-X and ELD Match

[Aussie Dan]

Can't stand the hornady podcasts in general, this one just proved that they're barely more than a marketing company.

Seems like they know and quasi acknowledge that ELD-Ms work in many hunting scenarios but couldn't say so because it would likely render the ELD-X and other products irrelevant and affect sales of their "hunting" lines of projectiles and factory ammo.

 

[Whitefox82]

The reason they don’t acknowledge the M as a hunting bullet is because in REAL hunting scenarios there are too may variables for it to fail. Not everyone shoots 600+ yards, where impact velocity is moderate to low and you have the time for a broadside only shot.
Imagine you drew a once in a lifetime elk tag and on the last day of the hunt you final have your target bull in dense timber at 100 yards and it’s quartering hard. You either need to go through the ham or front shoulder at high impact velocity to reach vitals. Will you feel confident in your bullet?

 

[Hondo64d]

Hornady just had a podcast on Youtube that describes the difference between the ELD-X and ELD Match. Some of you might be interested to know their take. NOTE: it was more about what the differences are instead of saying what people should use.

Haven’t finished listening to it yet, but did they ever say whether any of them had actually try ELD-Ms on game? If not, how would they know they do or don’t work well?

John

 

[MuleyFever]

..

Haven’t finished listening to it yet, but did they ever say whether any of them had actually try ELD-Ms on game? If not, how would they know they do or don’t work well?

John

Did they say they know that the M works or doesn't work on game?

 

[LongWayAround]

The reason they don’t acknowledge the M as a hunting bullet is because in REAL hunting scenarios there are too may variables for it to fail. Not everyone shoots 600+ yards, where impact velocity is moderate to low and you have the time for a broadside only shot.
Imagine you drew a once in a lifetime elk tag and on the last day of the hunt you final have your target bull in dense timber at 100 yards and it’s quartering hard. You either need to go through the ham or front shoulder at high impact velocity to reach vitals. Will you feel confident in your bullet?

I'm not shooting through the ham to get to the vitals.

They go through shoulders.

They work fine inside of 600yd.

Normal "real" hunting.

 

[JF_Idaho]

It just doesn't seem that hard to follow along.

Yes they have tested terminal ballistics on the match bullets.

They do not test each Lot of production Ms. They do test each Lot of production Xs.

You MIGHT buy a Lot of Ms that grenade or don't expand for various reasons.

I shot 147eldms last season and I wouldn't hesitate to shoot them again.

 

[Chad E]

You either need to go through the ham

This line of thinking is what leads to poor shots and wounded critters. You don't NEED to do anything especially shoot through the ham. Wait for a better shot angle if it doesn't present one its OK that the elk wins sometimes. Ass blasting an elk and justifying by saying its a once in a lifetime tag is garbage.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

This line of thinking is what leads to poor shots and wounded critters. You don't NEED to do anything especially shoot through the ham. Wait for a better shot angle if it doesn't present one its OK that the elk wins sometimes. Ass blasting an elk and justifying by saying its a once in a lifetime tag is garbage.

Never in my life have I considered going through a ham for any critters, and I'm from Texas ffs. I don't care what gun or projectile I have I'm not doing it. Best I'll do is tucking behind the last rib. Somebody posted a ruler pic the other day from last rib inside the cage all the way up to the groove where the heart loves and I think it was 18"? 18" of soft ooey gooey organs, think I'll take my chances with the M's and TMK's.

 

[Raghorn54]

Four years ago, I stumbled into the ELDMs after my new Tikka wouldn’t shoot an ELDX group less than 3”. Sub-MOA with the M’s. This forum gave me the confidence to hunt with the ELDMs. Two bull elk, one antelope, caribou and whitetail buck later, I’m a believer. Elk bones crushed at 200 yards, liquefied lungs, and a propensity to grenade and hit the spine. Have a new rifle this year, and I’m sticking to the M’s. Luckily, the new Tikka likes them as much as the old.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

The reason they don’t acknowledge the M as a hunting bullet is because in REAL hunting scenarios there are too may variables for it to fail. Not everyone shoots 600+ yards, where impact velocity is moderate to low and you have the time for a broadside only shot.
Imagine you drew a once in a lifetime elk tag and on the last day of the hunt you final have your target bull in dense timber at 100 yards and it’s quartering hard. You either need to go through the ham or front shoulder at high impact velocity to reach vitals. Will you feel confident in your bullet?

This is a silly premise. I don’t plan my bullet shopping by the last five minutes of a hunt shooting through the ham.

I shot and killed a bull elk last year using 155 TMKs (another match bullet) and the shot was at 60 yards. Worked great.

 

[Whitefox82]

This is a silly premise. I don’t plan my bullet shopping by the last five minutes of a hunt shooting through the ham.

I shot and killed a bull elk last year using 155 TMKs (another match bullet) and the shot was at 60 yards. Worked great.

What I’m saying is…
Will it work great every time?
I plan my bullet choice based off of ALL hunting scenarios.
I’m not going to convince any of you to stop using “murder” bullets. They certainly work but, at the same time, the shooter needs to show extreme restraint in certain circumstances.
I won’t hesitate to take a quarter away shot with my 300 win shooting 200gr terminal ascent. I know I’m getting to the vitals.
I think the very fact that so many here get soooo offended by the mentioning of their sub 130 grain match bullets not being an ideal hunting choice(not even by the very manufacturer) for larger game proves the point that they too know this but for whatever reason like the “sniper murderer” feeling they get off them. Maybe shooting critters with match bullets is more dramatic when watching them die on social media? IDK…my hands are in the air, but don’t tell me it’s for the animal.
Also, I don’t like eating lead.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

Will it work great every time?

Will your choice to shoot through the back of the animal work great every time? Do you have experience shooting through the ham and into the vitals? If so, can you share pics? I try to avoid bullets in the guts as game is a primary food source for my family and I.

I plan my bullet choice based off of ALL hunting scenarios.

I plan for what’s likely to happen in the field with my hunting/stocking and physical abilities. I also train for many different shooting scenarios and the ranges applicable to my weapon system, At the same time, I plan for the limitations of my weapon system, my physical abilities, etc. There is no silver bullet that is good for ALL shooting scenarios and conditions.

I’m not going to convince any of you to stop using “murder” bullets. They certainly work but, at the same time, the shooter needs to show extreme restraint in certain circumstances.

As does any hunter facing poor shot options, regardless of their weapon system.…IMO

I won’t hesitate to take a quarter away shot with my 300 win shooting 200gr terminal ascent. I know I’m getting to the vitals.

I wouldn’t hesitate to take a quartering-to or away with ELDMs, TMKs, or Bergers. But that doesn’t mean I take every shot opportunity.

I think the very fact that so many here get soooo offended by the mentioning of their sub 130 grain match bullets not being an ideal hunting choice(not even by the very manufacturer) for larger game proves the point that they too know this but for whatever reason like the “sniper murderer” feeling they get off them. Maybe shooting critters with match bullets is more dramatic when watching them die on social media? IDK…my hands are in the air, but don’t tell me it’s for the animal.
Also, I don’t like eating lead.

I’m not offended. I’m calling out the fallacy that there’s a silver bullet for all scenarios and taking poor shots is a viable option.

I’m not sure what you’re getting at with the social media rub. I like not chasing animals. Careful shot placement with a decent bullet, match or otherwise, gives me the highest potential for that outcome.

 

[RickDalton]

So you mean to tell me the ELD-M(urder) bullet is a myth and we all should be shooting the ELDX? Who woulda thunk the hunting bullet is better for hunting… Fudd lore at its finest. Glad hornady put this to bed.

 

[UnckleBob]

Haven’t finished listening to it yet, but did they ever say whether any of them had actually try ELD-Ms on game? If not, how would they know they do or don’t work well?

John

Scientific testing requires a controlled medium (ballistic gel) vs random shots on random animals at random velocities.

..

Did they say they know that the M works or doesn't work on game?

They are experts in designing bullets to kill game and have clearly done testing on how different bullet designs perform.

Eldx> Eldm

• Eldm ok on small to medium sized game. Not tough enough for larger game because of erratic performance depending upon what it strikes inside the animal.
• SST and Interlock bullets pretty much ignored
• BTHP - extremely erratic performance on gel.
• If people do want to hunt with Match bullets, avoid the BTHP and ATIP.
• Polymer Tipped Match bullets (including a bullet from Sierra) better than either.

As one of them said, the Eldx is harder to manufacture than the Eldm. Yet, they cost about the same.

Why not get the better tool for the job?

 

[Whitefox82]

Will your choice to shoot through the back of the animal work great every time? Do you have experience shooting through the ham and into the vitals? If so, can you share pics? I try to avoid bullets in the guts as game is a primary food source for my family and I.

I plan for what’s likely to happen in the field with my hunting/stocking and physical abilities. I also train for many different shooting scenarios and the ranges applicable to my weapon system, At the same time, I plan for the limitations of my weapon system, my physical abilities, etc. There is no silver bullet that is good for ALL shooting scenarios and conditions.

As does any hunter facing poor shot options, regardless of their weapon system.…IMO

I wouldn’t hesitate to take a quartering-to or away with ELDMs, TMKs, or Bergers. But that doesn’t mean I take every shot opportunity.

I’m not offended. I’m calling out the fallacy that there’s a silver bullet for all scenarios and taking poor shots is a viable option.

I’m not sure what you’re getting at with the social media rub. I like not chasing animals. Careful shot placement with a decent bullet, match or otherwise, gives me the highest potential for that outcome.

I agree with you on most your points. I absolutely don’t take angled shots given the choice, but when hunting very seldom are shot angles perfect. And I probably shouldn’t say “ALL” scenarios but instead most imo.
TMKs, ELDMs, and other fragmenting bullets are proven to kill under the hands of experienced and self disciplined hunters.
Remember, posting on Rokslide does come with some responsibility. Other guys with less experience and/or shooting discipline than yourself use advise here. They need to know BOTH the pros and cons, and the parameters for which these bullets work best. That way, we are setting them up to make the right decision for themselves.

 

[Whitefox82]

Put it this way, you know how many people out there buy their hunting ammo based off the animal printed on the box??? A lot!
Now thats FUD thinking lol!

 

[omicron1792]

It seems this is somehow related to tipped match bullets and government contracts. @Formidilosus can you expand on this?

Like with how sierra is making the mkx line for hunting, and refuse to publicly support tmk for hunting, even though they admit privately they are devastating.

Is if they don’t want their LEO and military bullets to be known to be so devastating to tissue?

 

[Formidilosus]

It seems this is somehow related to tipped match bullets and government contracts. @Formidilosus can you expand on this?

In this case, I don’t really think so- but it could be. Hornady absolutely tests, and markets ELD-M’s as devastating and effective in tissue in their TAP lines- including through barriers far harder on bullets than anything in an elk; produces images and video to market that effect, and sells the ammo loaded with ELD-M’s for that use. This is public information.

So… You have a couple of choices to choose to believe.

1). Hornady is obfuscating because they believe it will hurt LE ammo sells.

2). They are lying outright because they have said for so long that they don’t work, and yet they do, and now don’t want to look bad.

3). They believe saying ELD-M’s are good in animals will hurt ELD-X sells.

4). They do not actually understand terminal ballistics and it’s correlation to tissue, and therefor do not understand what makes a bullet that kills well.

5). Purposely being ignorant for some other reason- “match”, ego, tradition, etc.

6). They do test ELD-M’s, but their QC and materials vary so much that all lot# of bullets don’t perform well, and only use certain lots that test well in gel in their TAP ammo.

Like with how sierra is making the mkx line for hunting, and refuse to publicly support tmk for hunting, even though they admit privately they are devastating.

Is if they don’t want their LEO and military bullets to be known to be so devastating to tissue?

Sierra is going to show and state that TMK’s are excellent in tissue.

 

[omicron1792]

In this case, I don’t really think so- but it could be. Hornady absolutely tests, and markets ELD-M’s as devastating and effective in tissue in their TAP lines- including through barriers far harder on bullets than anything in an elk; produces images and video to market that effect, and sells the ammo loaded with ELD-M’s for that use. This is public information.

So… You have a couple of choices to choose to believe.

1). Hornady is obfuscating because they believe it will hurt LE ammo sells.

2). They are lying outright because they have said for so long that they don’t work, and yet they do, and now don’t want to look bad.

3). They believe saying ELD-M’s are good in animals will hurt ELD-X sells.

4). They do not actually understand terminal ballistics and it’s correlation to tissue, and therefor do not understand what makes a bullet that kills well.

5). Purposely being ignorant for some other reason- “match”, ego, tradition, etc.

6). They do test ELD-M’s, but their QC and materials vary so much that all lot# of bullets don’t perform well, and only use certain lots that test well in gel in their TAP ammo.





Sierra is going to show and state that TMK’s are excellent in tissue.

Thanks. Which one do you believe? My guess is a combination of all of them.

Also what has made sierra change? The right people now in charge?

 

[Formidilosus]

Thanks. Which one do you believe? My guess is a combination of all of them.

Mine too.

Also what has made sierra change? The right people now in charge?

New leadership that made them actually test TMK’s in proper gel, and that cares more about demonstrable reality than tired beliefs.