Hidden Alaska for Dall Sheep

[Torrent50]

I have seen a couple older threads about this, but rather than reviving them in thought I would start a new one.

I am about to pull the trigger on a Dall Sheep hunt and am thinking of using Hidden Alaska Outfitters for my guide. If anyone has hunted with them for Dall Sheep, successful or not, and would be willing to share their thoughts with me I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.
Bruce B.

 

[Bambistew]

I think they hunt unit 19C for sheep? That area was recently close to NR for 5 years. Hard to say if it will be open next year. Sheep hunting in AK will be challenging for a while.

 

[Yellowknife]

I've hunted out of one Hidden Alaska's sheep camps a couple times before. Traditionally a good spot, but as mentioned that unit is shut down to NR for the next 5 years. Even if it wasn't, the population is so depressed in 19C I'd never recommend it right now. Not sure if he has other options.

The owner has a reputation of being a classic Alaskan character, but I believe he retired from actually guiding the sheep clients quite a while ago and leaves it to the assistant guides, so be aware of that.

I was also un-impressed with his camp at the time (10 years ago). Tons of trash stashed in the trees, and the owner never visited, but would essentially drop an assistant guide off for season and then have another pilot switch clients out every 10 days. The poor assistant guide survived on nothing but Mountain House for far longer than a guy would think possible.

 

[Torrent50]

Thank you for the info. It never dawned on me to ask if he was in 19c. But the info on camp conditions is also very helpful. Definitely going to broaden my search now.

 

[SLDMTN]

Hidden guided sheep in 19C, I say that as past tense because they’re shut down for 5 years.

Buck Bowden is phasing out of the business and his son in law, Tony Marchini is taking over the business. Tony was born and raised in the Copper River Valley and has killed bigger sheep than 99% of people have ever seen, myself included. Not just in the hard park either.

At main sheep camp, clients sleep on cots inside of a weather port style shelter. The fire pit has a huge canvas tarp pitched over the top to keep you out of the rain. There’s a two burner stove, cooler and a food barrel. The guide can make anything they want to while in camp. As is tradition passed down from Buck, the first night is always steak and potatoes. When I guided out of that camp two years ago, we ate everything from steak to muskox burgers, sheep heart spaghetti and fresh moose backstrap. Warm sandwiches are typical for lunch. Breakfast is eggs of some sort with toast, pancakes or burritos. None of it is fancy but it felt pretty good to come back to.

In the field yes, it’s the typical affair of mountain house, salami/crackers, etc. Whatever you can cram in your pack cause they aren’t aerial spotting sheep. It was a legitimate hunt with no guarantee of a legal ram.

If the camp was a mess that’s disappointing to hear. Buck/Tony would tune a guy up over that as non burnable trash is to be flown out on the return flights. There’s a large population of bears in the area and they occasionally have issues with them even when camp is clean.

Tony will personally be in there this year for clients with bear/caribou tags.

 

[kaboku68]

Tony could pull a big sheep out of a rabbit hole. He is legit.

 

[Yellowknife]

If the camp was a mess that’s disappointing to hear. Buck/Tony would tune a guy up over that as non burnable trash is to be flown out on the return flights. There’s a large population of bears in the area and they occasionally have issues with them even when camp is clean.

Yeah, that's why I noted it was 10 years ago, as an awful lot can change in a decade. As far as I could tell Buck hadn't spent any real time in camp in quite a while at that point, and clearly his assistant guides had stashed a pile of plastic totes, broken camp gear, fuel cans and other junk back up in the trees. That years guide spent all his free time between clients burning it so it was substantially cleaner by end of season.

All that operation appeared to need at the time was some attention, and sounds like Tony is now providing that. A good spot when the sheep population is healthy. OP will have to look elsewhere this year though.

Yk

 

[DBMR]

Count your blessings that the AK BOG has voted to shut this area down for 5 years. You have saved yourself a lot of heartache and cash that you can use towards a quality outfit and area WITHIN ALASKA. Look into areas in the state of AK that have federal concessions........ie one outfitter permitted to operate on set land use boundaries that can only sell a set amount of permits. This particular outfitter you were referencing in your thread could sell an UNLIMTED number of sheep hunts and there could legally be an unlimited number of other outfitters doing the SAME thing from the same access air strip hunting the same surrounding mountains. Hard to believe but that is the truth in most of 19c as well. Something these "outfitters" conveniently fail to mention or are too ignorant in our guiding laws that they hold a license in!!

Too many outfitters is not the sole reason GMU 19C went to horrible harvestable ram numbers but it was a huge contributing factor.

AK gets a bad rap for our sheep hunts but that comes from the uneducated blurring the two distinct different guiding tiers we have here in AK..........State land vs Federal Land. Most of these uneducated have no clue......and I don't blame them because it really is hard to believe we operate like this in Alaska.

For example the majority of the NE Brooks range concessions are enjoying great hunter success even with the same past winters that have taken a toll on our sheep too (and BTW the NWT and the Yukon are experiencing these same killer winters as we are in AK). The big difference on these NE Brooks Range Federal concessions is we don't have an unlimited number of outfitters selling an unlimited number of sheep tags. And most of these outfitters are concerned with conservations instead of the mentality "if I don't shoot that sub par barely legal ram that next outfitter will". We have a lot of skin in the game keeping our huntable harvestable rams in a healthy age/size range, This is the exact same model the top outfitters in the NWT and the Yukon operate on as well.

I try to educate as many unsuspecting non resident hunters as I can concerning this. Both online and in person at the numerous trade shows I attend every year. I am not PC or afraid to call out these "outfitters" or the policies they adhere too either. I have been pointing out the issues in 19c for decades and here we are now..........closed down for non residents. Again mother nature was the majority at fault of our sub par harvestable ram numbers in 19c. But these unlimited outfitters didn't help.

I am glad you will have to find a different area. It might not seem like it now but it is a blessing when you look at it logically. Good luck in your search. I can gladly give you an unbiased opinion on outfitters tailored to what you are looking for too.

 

[SLDMTN]

Steve this has been beat to death on here in every sheep thread. Blanketing 19C as a whole is just as much a partial truth as saying that Federal land is the only way to go. Some deserve that status, some don’t.

It’s irrelevant now but Hidden went 4/6 on sheep last year, none sublegal. One of the unsuccessful clients had a panic attack in the terrain and asked to return to main camp.

 

[DBMR]

Steve this has been beat to death on here in every sheep thread. Blanketing 19C as a whole is just as much a partial truth as saying that Federal land is the only way to go. Some deserve that status, some don’t.

It’s irrelevant now but Hidden went 4/6 on sheep last year, none sublegal. One of the unsuccessful clients had a panic attack in the terrain and asked to return to main camp.

Forgive me, since you mentioned me by name, You many know me but I am not sure who you are. My apologies.

Apparently it has not been beat enough because non residents were still giving 19c a serious look up until the AK BOG put a stop to the madness in 19c; hopefully the bear, moose and caribou unlimited madness will follow suit.
I guess we can agree to disagree, because for the general OTC tag non resident, federal land hunts are the ONLY WAY to go for CONSISTANT quality uncrowded Alaskan sheep hunts bottom line. NO STATE LAND OUTFITTER can guarantee that another outfitter could not set up shop next to them can they? That would be my question to you SLDMTN.

Federal land concession outfitters can guarantee that statement!

Look no farther than our neighbors to the east in the NWT and the Yukon. Same management style. One outfitter selling a limited number of permits on a given piece of ground. Not a 100 percent across the board comparison but without question the closest you can get here in Alaska for $15 -20K less.
Can their be anomalies in these over hunted state land areas from year to year such as 19c? Sure there can be, and I guess a 66 percent success rate Hidden Alaska had last year was decent............. better than most of these outfits in 19c selling over priced over crowded disappointing hunts.
My main point of that post to this thread was just spreading the word of Alaska's two tier guiding laws and to let the author of the thread know he had dodged a bullet. Also it was for non resident sheep hunters to ask of these outfitters those mentioned questions if they are considering non draw sheep hunts.

How is that not helping non resident hunters? That is what this "Sheep Thread" primarily should be about IMO...... helping those that are most likely coming on a once in a lifetime hunt that they have saved for decades for. I very rarely mention any outfitters by name in all the social media I post on. I just suggest areas and to hire an outfitter that has a federal land concession if you are NOT getting a draw permit hunt.

I'm so tired of Alaska taking a bad rap for our sheep hunts when it is primarly outfitters in 19c, 20a and the brooks range state land that are the low quality, low legal ram numbers and overcrowded conditions. Why are these the outfits that constantly get the attention of "Alaska sheep hunts suck now"? Because for the most part these AREAS do suck for the forementioned reasons.

Sorry if that offends any of you guides or outfitters that provide services in these areas but that is not why I post here. I certainly have the knowledge the gear and the ability to get my license to sell sub quality hunts in ANY of these state land areas but i don't. Why? I love sheep hunting! I love guiding hunters to quality rams! I'm 100 percent on 33 rifle guided sheep client hunts. I don't because I have integrity, honesty and ethics. Something many of these state land outfitters in the above mentioned areas who are still trying to con non residents out of their savings are lacking.

For the non resident that don't know, that is how easy it is to get a license to sell hunts on state land in Alaska. Anyone with those credentials can set up shop anywhere.

 

[SLDMTN]

Easy tiger, believe it or not we aren’t that far apart on the issue as a whole. Also, nice work on your guide record, that’s an impressive achievement. What was the success rate of your outfit as a whole last year?

Don’t know you at all aside from Tyler’s podcast and your comments from your other account here. I saw the acronym, the comment and assumed it was you.

My main point with the closure of 19C has always been that it doesn’t fix the problem. In five years it’s going to be the same old story. Outfitter accountability needs to be fixed first and foremost. We need quotas for sheep and published statistics for all species otherwise we’ll continue to grow a bad reputation.

It’s not fair to paint with a broad brush on state or Fed land. We both know of areas that being the only outfitter working there still doesn’t put legal rams on the mountain and their success was reflective of that. Conversely, I bet we can both name guys who’ve gone at or near 100% on state land for a long time. To me it’s more about the person than the place.

 

[DBMR]

Easy tiger, believe it or not we aren’t that far apart on the issue as a whole. Also, nice work on your guide record, that’s an impressive achievement. What was the success rate of your outfit as a whole last year?

Don’t know you at all aside from Tyler’s podcast and your comments from your other account here. I saw the acronym and assumed it was you.

My main point with the closure of 19C has always been that it doesn’t fix the problem. In five years it’s going to be the same old story. Outfitter accountability needs to be fixed first and foremost. We need quotas for sheep and published statistics for all species otherwise we’ll continue to grow a bad reputation.

It’s not fair to paint with a broad brush on state or Fed land. We both know of areas that being the only outfitter working there still doesn’t put legal rams on the mountain and their success was reflective of that. Conversely, I bet we can both name guys who’ve gone at or near 100% on state land for a long time. To me it’s more about the person than the place.

That's the problem with state land hunts. Its never going to change. They may say a DNR guide use concession program is coming but it never does and as you stated we will be right back where we are now after it opens back up. The capitalist economy is the only hope. Enough starved off outfitters cut from the ranks will be the only true way of saving this profession in Alaska. The amount of outfitters in 19c and 20a is a joke. I am hoping when this closure is lifted many of these outfits are long gone. They should have never been given a license in the first place. A true federal concession like program will be the only way to save future commercial hunts. The writing is on the wall. And currently the customer is the lynch pin in that, if they dont "buy in to the BS" sold to them by these state land outfitters the capitalist economy will hopefully kick in.

I agree it is more about the person/guide then anything but no matter how hard that good guy tries to do the right thing on state land another legal guide can ruin all of it. And it is not going to change. Fewer guides in the field through bankruptcy attrition IMO is the only quick fix. And that may sound cruel but when you look at these guides should not even been given a license in these overcrowded areas, it really is not. They got it good when the getting was good now not so much.

Again Ill agree to disagree and that is ok. It is perfectly fair to paint with a broad brush the differences between state and federal land guiding outfits. It really is a night and day differences between the two. Since I have no clue who you are (I have no idea if you know sorry if you do) but do you really know the differences other than the obvious that have been talked about? If the state would get onboard with a similar model our game populations would be in a lot better position. And no we cant stop mother nature, but we certainly can stop the unregulated amount of very efficient predators we are as the professional guiding community in the conservation of the limited amount of harvestable rams (game animals) and that is fact.

 

[SLDMTN]

That's the problem with state land hunts. Its never going to change. They may say a DNR guide use concession program is coming but it never does and as you stated we will be right back where we are now after it opens back up. The capitalist economy is the only hope. Enough starved off outfitters cut from the ranks will be the only true way of saving this profession in Alaska. The amount of outfitters in 19c and 20a is a joke. I am hoping when this closure is lifted many of these outfits are long gone. They should have never been given a license in the first place. A true federal concession like program will be the only way to save future commercial hunts. The writing is on the wall. And currently the customer is the lynch pin in that, if they dont "buy in to the BS" sold to them by these state land outfitters the capitalist economy will hopefully kick in.

I agree it is more about the person/guide then anything but no matter how hard that good guy tries to do the right thing on state land another legal guide can ruin all of it. And it is not going to change. Fewer guides in the field through bankruptcy attrition IMO is the only quick fix. And that may sound cruel but when you look at these guides should not even been given a license in these overcrowded areas, it really is not. They got it good when the getting was good now not so much.

Again Ill agree to disagree and that is ok. It is perfectly fair to paint with a broad brush the differences between state and federal land guiding outfits. It really is a night and day differences between the two. Since I have no clue who you are (I have no idea if you know sorry if you do) but do you really know the differences other than the obvious that have been talked about? If the state would get onboard with a similar model our game populations would be in a lot better position. And no we cant stop mother nature, but we certainly can stop the unregulated amount of very efficient predators we are as the professional guiding community in the conservation of the limited amount of harvestable rams (game animals) and that is fact.

My name is Kyle Virgin. I’m a nobody, just a resident/assistant guide with an opinion based on statistics and experience.

You didn’t answer my question about your outfit’s success ratio. So, here’s the stats.

Since 2022 hasn’t been released yet, this is what I have to work with. I guided a ram in 19C in 2021, saw exactly zero other guides or hunters aside from what Hidden had in main camp. We had almost identical statistics in ‘21 as in ‘22.

Here’s Federal land units in AK. What am I missing?

Where’s the smoking gun???? At 66% (4/6) Hidden was still above Fed land average.

 

[SLDMTN]

Furthermore when going just off of the Eastern Brooks, it only holds 2.7% better average of non res success than 19C.

 

[IBen]

Steve this has been beat to death on here in every sheep thread. Blanketing 19C as a whole is just as much a partial truth as saying that Federal land is the only way to go. Some deserve that status, some don’t.

It’s irrelevant now but Hidden went 4/6 on sheep last year, none sublegal. One of the unsuccessful clients had a panic attack in the terrain and asked to return to main camp.

We went 2/2 in 19c in 2022

 

[SLDMTN]

Here’s a fun one as well since the 19C guides only kill subs and dinks right?

 

[AKPA18]

1. Id say a native lease is better than a federal concession from a consumer (hunter) standpoint myself but I don’t know much.

2. Tony Marchini is as legit a dude as there is in case there was any confusion. If he’s willing to take you hunting, I’d recommend writing the man a check.

 

[SLDMTN]

1. Id say a native lease is better than a federal concession from a consumer (hunter) standpoint myself but I don’t know much.

The ironic thing about this whole conversation is that I’d bet that 9/10 people banging the RHAK drum for closure didn’t even know this was a thing.

 

[as.ks.ak]

The ironic thing about this whole conversation is that I’d bet that 9/10 people banging the RHAK drum for closure didn’t even know this was a thing.

RHWP**


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DBMR]

Here’s a fun one as well since the 19C guides only kill subs and dinks right?

There is not a legal AK state moose season in 26C or 26B so I am not sure what you are posting here