Help me understand the reasoning of modern optics

[SDHNTR]

It almost sounds like you are trying to make it sound like im saying you dont need to account for wind? Or that fov is not important? That is not at all what im trying to say. Im saying that if im have an exposed turret that is designed for dialing, i see no reason to clutter things up with a Christmas tree in my view. And vise versa, if i do like shooting holdovers with a reticle then there is no reason to have a exposed turrets.
Now i do understand that lots of guys want the option for both which is great. I just find it weird that in a market were there are thousands of options for scopes, nobody is offering this option.

It just seemed like you were dismissing the horizontal holds on the reticle since you said you would never dial and use the reticle at the same time. Glad I'm mistaken. I see how you could could say the vertical hashes are not needed, but it was almost as if you were advocating for a duplex and not accounting for the need for wind holds.

Yeah, I think the Windplex and 4W are great, but they are only offered in SFP scopes, and chitty ones at that.

 

[Macintosh]

Asking about reasoning is always dangerous. Some things have reasons, sometimes there's a reason, it's just that the reason really only applies to the manufacturer.

The cynical answer is that "it's what sells" is the real reason A LOT more than it probably should be. "Why do so many people buy this crap" is probably a better question.

"It's what's available, therefore it's what people use, therefore it's what sells, therefore it's what manufacturers focus on marketing...", and with that momentum away we go into a feedback loop.

Reticles that are invisible at lower magnification, busy christmas tree reticles in general, exposed windage turrets, 2fp scopes greater than about 12x max magnification with hashed reticles, are all perfect examples of things that are absolutely not an inherent problem with any technology, but which are across the board inferior, yet are more or less ubiquitous.

When I'm king this will all change.

 

[cocky84]

It just seemed like you were dismissing the horizontal holds on the reticle since you said you would never dial and use the reticle at the same time. Glad I'm mistaken. I see how you could could say the vertical hashes are not needed, but it was almost as if you were advocating for a duplex and not accounting for the need for wind holds.

Yeah, I think the Windplex and 4W are great, but they are only offered in SFP scopes, and chitty ones at that.

I apologize. Should of clarified better. I was meaning dialing and holdover for the same axis. Now if you are someone who prefers to dial both elevation and windage then duplex makes sense. But im like you, i think dialing elevation and holding for windage is the the way to go. And yeah therefore windage marks are key.

 

[SDHNTR]

Asking about reasoning is always dangerous. Some things have reasons, sometimes there's a reason, it's just that the reason really only applies to the manufacturer.

The cynical answer is that "it's what sells" is the real reason A LOT more than it probably should be. "Why do so many people buy this crap" is probably a better question.

"It's what's available, therefore it's what people use, therefore it's what sells, therefore it's what manufacturers focus on marketing...", and with that momentum away we go into a feedback loop.

Reticles that are invisible at lower magnification, busy christmas tree reticles in general, exposed windage turrets, 2fp scopes greater than about 12x max magnification with hashed reticles, are all perfect examples of things that are absolutely not an inherent problem with any technology, but which are across the board inferior, yet are more or less ubiquitous.

When I'm king this will all change.

Amen. Yet so sad. Have you seen a new model Toyota? It’s full of all kinds of needless bells and whistles because that’s what sells, all at the expense of what used to be a focus on quality.

 

[cocky84]

Amen. Yet so sad. Have you seen a new model Toyota? It’s full of all kinds of needless bells and whistles because that’s what sells, all at the expense of what used to be a focus on quality.

Yep! I went and bought a 2023 tacoma when i seen the 24’s.
New models are 4cyl turbo for $50k +
And if you want a hybrid 4cyl with shocks on the back of the seats your looking close to $70k. Pretty insane.
Even my 23 has too many unnecessary bells and whistles but last year for the v6 so figured better get one.

 

[isleofGough]

FFP scopes are all I use: you can use them for ranging. They allow easier correction of misses. Windage correction and moving targets require quick changes and generally are not done with turret clicks. I never saw the need for locks.

 

[danhuntingmi]

The reasoning is the same as the reasoning behind any durable good through the ages. Manufacturers convince people to buy a new scope when they already have one by chasing new fads and telling them their current scope is inadequate.

From the foray, some product improvements do occur. At the same time, we now have hunting scopes of the size and magnification to approach the Hubble while, as people on this forum are fond to point out, most can't hold zero in your trunk when driven over a bump.

If it were me, I'd be happy with a scope that had two magnifications: 3 and 12. Second focal plane. Reliable. Less than 16 oz and 40 mm objective. Either 2 moa hashes or a turret.

I'd seriously just think critically about what you personally actually need or want.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

as primarily dialler for elevation and wind holder since best of the west days I've since added my first ffp scope to solve a reading glasses due to getting old problem that got past point of just some blurry on the small digits of data cards or turrets...now I legit can't read sh1t up close without readers so ballistic rangefinder focusable output and a focused reticle are how I solved for the issue...this put me into a ffp mil almost by default as the only scope that fit my project rifle the best was in that type of reticle...

the mil itself is straight forward, it's less hash marks than moa (Half mil vs 1 moa hashes only two options I'd consider hunt friendly), quicker easier to reference less 'county' than moa and for most hunting ranges I'd say makes sense on critters, I like it as I usually gravitate to 'less is more' anything as I only care about hunting, not clays or golf balls at 1000 where I can see the finer graduations for precision argument there for moa...

back to ffp, the scope I got the reticle becomes usable for up to 38% of the magnification range at the top(in my case from 5x-8x), allowing you to not be pinned to just one mag range which on many scopes is too high for hunting, that is added versatility that benefits hunting, even if dialling but holding for wind via reticle instead of say inches using the animal tape as I had generally done before so it didn't matter what mag I was on anyway

downside is not many scopes have enough solution for when on low mag and actually seeing the reticle for typical hunting shots, but enough options available now that you can find something and more will be coming as its the direction, I'm sure 2025 shot show and the one after that will have a bunch more hunt focused ffp mag ranges and reticles

oh and I forgot about ranging with reticle back up capability, I still likely will have readers with me and do have back up data cards for couple elevations but was able to add a column for 18" buck torso along side so if you lose ability to range with rangefinder to conditions or failure...you can likely save hunt, in my case I just need to break out the reading glasses and keep em handy, start memorizing some stuff on the data card as you go, I guess if you have phone you can take a pic of data or screen shot and zoom also and save the glasses...cat skinning, necessity will drive additional options you hadn't yet thought of