Help me select my first Elk/Moose/Bear rifle.

[ORfish]

"For the one perfect all-around elk rifle, I’m not sure you can beat the good old .30-06. In its 112-year lineage, it has probably taken more elk than all other cartridges combined. Make no mistake, the .30-06 is a powerful cartridge, but it doesn’t beat you to death and can be built in the seven- to eight-pound range. And with modern powders and loads, it knocks on the door of the .300 WSM and .300 Winchester Magnum. I’d mate it with a good 180-grain bullet, top it with a one-inch-tube scope (to save weight), and go elk hunting. Honestly, I’ve taken as many elk with the .30-06 as with any other cartridge, and the farthest at 350 yards was no problem. Coming from me, this conclusion may shock you, so let me give you another surprise. I think Jack O’Connor, the great champion of the .270, would agree. He never questioned the adequacy of his .270 for elk, nor do I, but he was also a lifelong .30-06 fan and privately conceded its superiority for elk-sized game."
- Craig Boddington

 

[blackhawkip]

I got my first bull elk with my 30-06. Didn't take two steps. Placement is #1, caliber somewhere after that.

 

[tt_johnsclist]

That's why God made the .30-06, so you could just go buy one rifle and never have to be confused if there is a better choice.

Yep, this problem was solved in 1906. The only improvement since then was the Nosler Partition in 1947. Everything since then and in between has largely been the work of gun company marketing.

 

[Scottyboy]

If you end up with a 300WM Tikka take it to E Arthur Brown in Garfield (near Alexandria) and they will thread the barrel and install a brake for you. Everyone has their opinions on muzzle brakes but they work, they are of course loud and punish everyone to your left/right but whatever.

when I did this is severely tamed my WM, but ultimately ended up with a different barrel and went suppressed.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Energy has no bearing on killing effectively.

 

[Diesel]

Lots of experienced advice has already been given with little of it wrong, just different recipes.

Since you have said all this is confusing, maybe a little different approach will help.

The first thing that comes to mind is felt recoil. Notice that if you go to the range and shoot your .270 a mere 20 times or more you will feel that recoil, even from the bench. That can develop into a flinch if you don't concentrate which will negate all that practice and ammo. But you need to shoot that rifle and become so comfortable with that weapon that it is and old and reliable friend. You can accomplish the same result without the discomfort by using the same exact rifle set up like your .270 but with a lighter caliber. If you can find a place that you SAFELY shoot in real world scenarios till that rifle is an extension of you, you will understand why the old timers only needed one rifle/caliber for all big game in the U.S. You will never feel the recoil in the excitement of putting the sights on big game in a hunting scenario, but your practice with that smaller caliber look alike will make you quicker and more confident and...more accurate.

I asked your same questions 50 years ago. I wanted a rifle with a scope, even though I was a very good shot with open sights, to be able to hunt elk, muleys, bears and everything a 16 year old dreams of hunting. The gunsmith was a friend of my dad's and handed me a Ruger 30.06 off the rack and told me I would never need anything else for big game. I still use that .06 and have never been under gunned. And... I never felt punished by recoil ever in a hunting situation.

I have many calibers today but it is only because I like Rifles and Guns, not because I need them.

Teach your kids that way and they will become very good shots.

 

[raferalston]

Excellent advice. Thank you Diesel.

 

[Diesel]

I will add a few more thoughts.

Using the exact same rifle every time will give you a big advantage in quickness and accuracy. That is because the fit is the same, the safety is the same, the trigger pull is the same when you pull up to shoot. Muscle memory will take over and your instincts will rule. After the shot, you may be amazed that you did your part so well because you had to react or miss the opportunity.

Another part of all the enjoyment and satisfaction of hunting is the sense of becoming skilled at the sport. Learning the game's habits, needs, territory is the reward of the pursuit. Woodsmanship just adds to the layers of accomplishments hunting offers. Learn to embrace it all to get the most out of it. Tracking, stalking, glassing weather, camp location are all part of it.

And taking care of your kill properly will make that meat taste sweeter than ever before.

 

[TimberHunter]

I didn’t read through all of the posts but something to greatly consider is recoil.

Years ago I thought starting out on a 300 win mag in a fairly light weight rifle was going to be the ticket. It was not and I developed a flinch and my accuracy suffered.

I sold it and bought a 270 win with a muzzle brake. That rifle helped to me correct my flinch and has been extremely effective! Don’t doubt the effectiveness of a middle of the road caliber like the 270 win when you pick the correct bullets for the game you’re after. For example: I use 150 grain partitions for shots at elk/mule deer under 300 yards. For shots from 300-550 yards I use nosler ballistic tips or accubonds.

This is this years bull (public land, over the counter, general season) taken with one 150 grain partition at approx 150 yards. Year prior I used a cup and core bullet to take a 5x5 at a similar distance and it took several shots to finish the elk. Pick a quality bullet like a partition, GMX, Barnes,etc for up close shots and a more standard cup and core bullet for longer shots and the .270 will be extremely effective!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Diesel]

In the context of this thread:

There are many different approaches on how we hunt. Some enjoy the result of a well placed shot at long distance knowing that their practice, understanding of wind drift, trajectories and so forth all came together for a successful end.

Then there are those that love the slow deliberate silent stalk through dense timber or scrub oak anticipating game at relatively close quarters with moments of sheer adrenaline rush as you react for the shot.

Or maybe it is tracking the herd hoping to get a glimpse of a herd bull.

The style of how you hunt can determine the caliber and or type of firearm tailored to your need. Open sights or scope is another consideration.

Whatever you approach or style it is practice and familiarity that ups the edge you have.

One thought for encouragement. If bringing home meat is the goal, it is the guy that gets out there every single day no matter how tired or what weather condition that usually connects when the rest are hanging at camp or tent because they are discouraged. You can rest later.

 

[bline]

I carry a 30-06 or .308 and spend all my time in grizzly country. My brother spent the last 25 yrs hunting moose with a .270 and just moved to a .308 (6 or 7 moose killed). My Dad has used a .303, .308, and a 30-06 to kill 51 moose.

The only reason I would choose a larger calibre is if I wanted to shot long range. If you want to kill elk at 500+ yds then I think you need a stronger caliber.

Hey Jimbob, what 30 cal bullets do you guys like best for that application in 308?

 

[Jimbob]

Mostly 180 grain in whatever.

Now I load 165 grn accubonds in my Dad's and my 30-06. In the .308 I load 130 grn ttsx for sheep/goat/caribou. I'll load 150 grn ttsx for the .308 if I take it moose hunting.

 

[plentycoupe]

Youre 270 is just fine. Pick a well constructed bullet and you’ll be fine. Practice as much as you can. I wouldn’t put too much stock in kinetic energy alone, my 22 creed retains 1500 foot lbs at 650 yards but I’d never shoot an elk with it at any distance.

What are you shooting out of your 22” creed to get 1500ftlbs at 650 yards? Am curious as I would like to do this.

 

[CApighunter]

What are you shooting out of your 22” creed to get 1500ftlbs at 650 yards? Am curious as I would like to do this.

95 smk at 3200 fps, 22 inch 22 creed

 

[ORfish]

For listening pleasure: Vortex Optics Podcast

Vortex Nation Podcast

Welcome to the Vortex Nation Podcast. Brought to you by lovers of hunting, shooting, public lands, the Second Amendment and dang good food.

vortexoptics.com

Last 10 minute talk was the .270. "perfect for deer, antelope". Adequate, not ideal elk.
10 minute talk on .30-06 as well.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

You shoot them into tissue or properly calibrated tissue simulate and measure the total penetration depth, wound width, and shape at varying impact speeds.

Look a couple threads down from this one and find the one titled “223 for deer, elk, bear, and moose”. Read the whole thing and you should have a much better understanding of “killing power”.

That was a really good thread and has really reshaped my expectations on caliber performance.... pictures and actual experiences, quite helpful.

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET. “Bullets matter more than headstamps.” “Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”. I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened. The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223...

www.rokslide.com

 

[rootacres]

New to hunting. I have a .270 Model 70 for White Tail here where I live in MN. My brother lives in CO and would like to do a couple hunting elk trips each year. While I've heard that the .270 will suffice I am worried about it being underpowered.

I'm leaning towards the Tikka T3X 300 Win Mag.

Anything else I should consider?

So I haven't read the 4 pages worth of responses, Im sure there are many very good responses. There are a variety of rifles cartridges that will take down an elk with power left over. I watched two bulls fall to 300 win mags this fall, the third fell to my 7mm WSM. After witnessing all three the tikka you mentioned in 300 win mag would be a phenomenal option. My dad took his bull at 250 yards with the rifle you mentioned. It throws the 180 TTSX factory loads very well. I would however recommend either springing for the Veil/Roughtech or plan on threading it for a brake. My dad did, it tamed it down and still maintained great accuracy.

Here it is

 

[steffen707]

I think I'm more confused than before I started this thread lol.

You and me both! I've shot the same BAR 270 since i was 14, now 37. only on Whitetail in Wisconsin. I'm looking to also have an anything smaller than an Elk rifle Bolt Action, probably sticking with 270, and a larger gun for elk, caribou, moose if I ever go on one of those hunts. The problem with what you and i are trying to figure is that there are many ways to skin a cat. Some will swear you need a big gun, some say a 223 is great for elk. I think accuracy is important, but also believe a larger magnum is more forgiving. Practice is important. I don't think a 270 kicks all that much, and i'm 5'7" 175lbs. Guns being loud though can screw me up keeping my scope steady for a follow up shot.

Read up on supressors. I don't own one, but plan to soon. i think 40 state hunting legal now. It'll cut down the noise, reduce recoil. No free lunch of course, it'll change POI-point of impact potentially, lower velocity (this may only be if you shorten the barrel, i'm not sure if supressor alone lowers velocity), make the gun longer unless you get a shorter barrel. Tikka T3x has several 5/8-24 threaded options though, you could practice with a brake (loud), hunt with a thread protector, and once you get a supressor try that out too, about a 6-12 month wait with ATF paperwork i hear.

I'd stick with something that has many choices in ammo, 7mm Mag, 300WM, 300WSM, 30-06, 308, 270: 6.5-06AI or some other Wildcat round you can't anywhere or is uber expensive isn't a good idea unless you hand reload, and i'm guessing if you did, you wouldn't be asking what gun to get, I don't hand reload either, fyi.

Hell, maybe go on a few elk hunts with the 270 first, maybe its just fine. only a few elk in Wisconsin, so going on an elk hunt takes time and money for us, i'd bring a bigger gun for fear of that quartering towards shot.

Make sure whatever you go with, that you can adjust your turret, or use the scope holdover and have an idea for windage holdover. If you gut shoot an elk, probably wont find him regardless of catridge choice.

One more thing there's always somebody that will say "XYZ caliber/catridge has taken untold numbers of ABC game". The people that say that usually follow it up with: "However, just because people kill ABC game with XYZ caliber/catridge, doesn't mean Its advisable, or that i'd suggest using it for that. Long way of saying somebody somewhere knew a guy that has killed an elk with a 22LR, another has used a 50BMG. The good answer is probably within 6.5CM and 338 lapua. LOL

I wish you luck.

You will never feel the recoil in the excitement of putting the sights on big game in a hunting scenario, but your practice with that smaller caliber look alike will make you quicker and more confident and...more accurate.

Shot my first 10 point whitetail this year with my 270. didn't feel the recoil, didn't even hear the shot really. It was fun. Wonder if that's what a sniper feels when he's shooting, live subjects. It was just in the zone, place the shot.....text my dad. =)

For listening pleasure: Vortex Optics Podcast

Vortex Nation Podcast

Welcome to the Vortex Nation Podcast. Brought to you by lovers of hunting, shooting, public lands, the Second Amendment and dang good food.

vortexoptics.com

Last 10 minute talk was the .270. "perfect for deer, antelope". Adequate, not ideal elk.
10 minute talk on .30-06 as well.

did they change the name of the 270 podcast to the o'connor special?

 

[300 win mag]

referalston.you said earlier you were a little confused.a lot of opinions and options.ill try and simplify.you mentioned you were going factory rifle i believe.have you shot a 300 mag of any type.if your not extremely recoil shy and with the game animals you mentioned and your going to possibly roam in grizz country someday.get yourself a 300 mag of your liking.no disrespect to anyone but when a grizz gets in your grill and pissed up close it is somewhat more comforting.

 

[kid44]

Not correct at all. “Killing power” is a result of destroyed tissue not a math equation. And not one of those things you listed can tell you anything about what wound a bullet will create.

You’re not missing a bigger rifle, your missing a training rifle. Your 270 is already more than needed for elk. You will not fail to kill an elk because of a 270 being too small, you will fail because you can’t find them, can’t get within range, can’t hit the front half at that range, or because scope/equipment failure. Be fit and learn to shoot very quickly and consistently from field positions to as far as you want to shoot.

Excellent advice.