Help LS Wild design the new stock!

[Schmo]

I understand there are theoretical advantages to different thumb placement, but I have a hard time understanding why you want to market for a particular style.

Because it is something that’s really appreciated by a lot of experienced users. There are too many stocks on the market that didn’t have adequate thought put into the grip design. Very long trigger reach being the most glaring example.

 

[hereinaz]

I understand there are theoretical advantages to different thumb placement, but I have a hard time understanding why you want to market for a particular style.

Agreed, not marketing to a particular style. I am trying to stay true to the Master Sporter grip as far as possible.

I am also trying to understand variations in preference/styles and see the most universal design. I still think the common design that flows from the palm swell to the tang is the best.

I think we may do the ambidextrous version. Form follows function, which is why many stock designs have changed. I think some old ideas persist though, like finger to trigger and LOP.

Also, I am definitely not a stock designer, so exploring for things I don’t know I don’t know.

 

[Schmo]

I think we may do the ambidextrous version.

That’s what I’d like to have. Seems like that version would allow the most options for different gripping methods

 

[Gstew1930]

Agreed, not marketing to a particular style. I am trying to stay true to the Master Sporter grip as far as possible.

I am also trying to understand variations in preference/styles and see the most universal design. I still think the common design that flows from the palm swell to the tang is the best.

I think we may do the ambidextrous version. Form follows function, which is why many stock designs have changed. I think some old ideas persist though, like finger to trigger and LOP.

Also, I am definitely not a stock designer, so exploring for things I don’t know I don’t know.

how would an ambi MS grip work? I'm having a hard time picturing that in my head

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Because it is something that’s really appreciated by a lot of experienced users. There are too many stocks on the market that didn’t have adequate thought put into the grip design. Very long trigger reach being the most glaring example.

All I am saying is, I would not make it only useable if you use a specific grip. I agree that average trigger reach has an optimal range, but if you make a stock for a hunting rifle that forces thumb inline with bore, you won’t necessarily be making a good hunting stock.

I have hunted with traditional rifle stocks for 40+ years and the Rokstok for only eight months. But I could immediately transition to the Rokstok and shoot very well without ever changing a lifetime of habits. That thumb in line with bore grip has never given *me* more control or stability.

The comment about the 1911 is really what spurred me to comment. I loathe the grip on the 1911. Maybe it’s because I have skinny hands, but I can’t get a proper, comfortable grip on it. Unlike for instance, a Browning M1935, Sig P226, or Beretta M92. But if you are part of the 1911 cult, what I just said is probably blasphemy.

I just think there is a point where your inputs in this thread have gotten too technical and specialized.

 

[lefthandedasian]

I'm in for a lefty version if/when they're made. If you guys are planning to make a dedicated lefty would there even be a need for an ambi grip? I could see a reason for ambi for some older actions that don't come in lefty, but especially with tikkas there are lots of opportunities for us wrong handers to get into a dedicated lefty action.

I could see how ambi would simplify the production though. ie: every stock is built the same, just the bolt cut out changes sides.

 

[Schmo]

That thumb in line with bore grip has never given *me* more control or stability.

That’s because the thumb in line with the bore isn’t supposed to give you more control, but less. It is not optimal to have to force the gun into position with you grip hand. You should utilize NPA to establish aim. The thumb in line with the bore helps you keep from torquing the grip.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

That’s because the thumb in line with the bore isn’t supposed to give you more control, but less. It is not optimal to have to force the gun into position with you grip hand. You should utilize NPA to establish aim. The thumb in line with the bore helps you keep from torquing the grip.

Do you shoot much offhand?

 

[hereinaz]

how would an ambi MS grip work? I'm having a hard time picturing that in my head

Yeah, I wasn’t clear enough, it would be this stock with the typical vertical grip palm swell… no way to make the MS ambidextrous.

 

[Schmo]

Do you shoot much offhand?

Not to be rude or argumentative in any way, but whether supported or offhand, the thumb in line with bore gives me all the control I need. However, in an offhand situation, you most likely aren’t shooting far, and torquing the grip may not change POI much. We are talking about this is a mid-long range distance.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Not to be rude or argumentative in any way, but whether supported or offhand, the thumb in line with bore gives me all the control I need. However, in an offhand situation, you most likely aren’t shooting far, and torquing the grip may not change POI much. We are talking about this is a mid-long range distance.

It’s a stock for a hunting rifle, right? 0-600?

 

[Schmo]

It’s a stock for a hunting rifle, right? 0-600?

0-600, or 800, or 1000

 

[Gstew1930]

Yeah, I wasn’t clear enough, it would be this stock with the typical vertical grip palm swell… no way to make the MS ambidextrous.

So more like the Bravo grip?

 

[Bluumoon]

Having a traditional shaped area over the thumb isn’t going to break the MS grip, that tiny part of the grip would be more like every other rifle stock. Don’t get lost in the weeds.


The MS grip puts your palm swell more inline w the barrel/recoil. Most notably the MS grip is shaped in such a way that it feels likes a really solid hand shake, like “who’s this guy?” after a bunch of limp wrist handshakes.

I’m pushing for the grip bc it’s better and otherwise you are basically making something that is more or less already available. I’m sure it would still be just fine w a bravo grip.

 

[Gstew1930]

Having a traditional shaped area over the thumb isn’t going to break the MS grip, that tiny part of the grip would be more like every other rifle stock. Don’t get lost in the weeds.


The MS grip puts your palm swell more inline w the barrel/recoil. Most notably the MS grip is shaped in such a way that it feels likes a really solid hand shake, like “who’s this guy?” after a bunch of limp wrist handshakes.

I’m pushing for the grip bc it’s better and otherwise you are basically making something that is more or less already available. I’m sure it would still be just fine w a bravo grip.

That makes sense to me

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Having a traditional shaped area over the thumb isn’t going to break the MS grip, that tiny part of the grip would be more like every other rifle stock. Don’t get lost in the weeds.

This is what I have been trying to say.

I’m not trying to be rude or argumentative. I just want a wooden stock that works for all hunting ranges and positions. One that works naturally.

You mentioned natural point of aim. A fine concept and one that is an essential part of building a good position. But not always the easiest thing to establish quickly in a dynamic hunting situation. A situation where you realize that you have less than two seconds to go from frozen solid to stepping as squarely as possible to your target while razing your rifle to take a 100-yard shot. And if it doesn’t work for controlling the rifle and recoil from an offhand shooting position, then it’s not much good to me. And if it requires every possible user to hold the rifle “just so” it’s not much good to many people. That’s my input. Take it as honestly given and value it as you see fit.

 

[Gstew1930]

This is what I have been trying to say.

I’m not trying to be rude or argumentative. I just want a wooden stock that works for all hunting ranges and positions. One that works naturally.

You mentioned natural point of aim. A fine concept and one that is an essential part of building a good position. But not always the easiest thing to establish quickly in a dynamic hunting situation. A situation where you realize that you have less than two seconds to go from frozen solid to stepping as squarely as possible to your target while razing your rifle to take a 100-yard shot. And if it doesn’t work for controlling the rifle and recoil from an offhand shooting position, then it’s not much good to me. And if it requires every possible user to hold the rifle “just so” it’s not much good to many people. That’s my input. Take it as honestly given and value it as you see fit.

Where do you want the thumb to be?

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Where do you want the thumb to be?

I don’t care. I just don’t want it to only work in one specific position.

 

[Schmo]

I don’t care. I just don’t want it to only work in one specific position.

I wasn’t defending it only working in one position. I was responding to your comment about thumb in line with the bore not having given you any benefit.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Here are a couple of pics that show the Master Sporter grip from Bluumoon vs another vertical grip stock that is ambidextrous.

Ours will remove the boxiness under the tang.

View attachment 1035430View attachment 1035431

I typically position my thumb like in the top picture.