Both my bergara barreled kimbers have shot shockingly well (a 280ai and a 6.5 creed). The 280 doing a ladder of 180 elds and RL26 and a variance of 4 grains in charge weight shot a 0.7 10 rounder back when i thought that ladders were a thing.
Kimber Hunter Build & Stock Mods
- Thread starter PathFinder
- Start date
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PathFinder
WKR
This barrel may be ok after all. This is 10 shots with 147 ELD-M and 40 gr of 4350 in 1st gen Alpha brass. I was using a questionable front bag setup and fighting mirage towards the end, so there's room for improvement. Loaded up 10 with RL16 and the 147 ELD-M to get velocity and double check precision. After that it will get a quick check at 400 before hunting this weekend. Scope is all degreased, torqued, and thread locked along with the action screws. @Stocky the front screw wasn't protruding too much, it was almost exactly flush with the top of the action, so well below where it could touch the barrel tenon.
Also got the micro cell pad installed. Left a little extra around the edges because I decided to sand and add one more layer to the rear of the stock to fix all the ugly.
The factory magazine showed up too. I have no idea why manufacturers insist on having their own junk proprietary magazines rather than just using AICS. It has no shoulder stops and likes to let rounds tilt forward, but it will work for now.
Also got the micro cell pad installed. Left a little extra around the edges because I decided to sand and add one more layer to the rear of the stock to fix all the ugly.
The factory magazine showed up too. I have no idea why manufacturers insist on having their own junk proprietary magazines rather than just using AICS. It has no shoulder stops and likes to let rounds tilt forward, but it will work for now.
Good to hear mine shoots the 140s and h4350 at any charge weight well. They actually outperform the 147s in retained velocity usually and It solved my lot to lot issues with 147s I was having.
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PathFinder
WKR
Finalized a load to get through spring bear until there's time for full development. Settled on 41 grains of RL16 in Hornady brass with a 147 ELD-M. They are the lower group in the picture. 140 ELD-M over 41.5 grains of RL16 in Hornady brass on top. The 1st gen (pre-OCD) Alpha brass had clickers no matter the load and seemed to be stringing horizontally. This load is only 2675 fps...hopefully some Alpha OCD brass and full load development will get that up substantially. The extra spot drawn on with a marker represents one that I shot at another dot when checking zero after the 140s shot so much lower. The 147 zero has been stable. Dropped it .1 mil after this.
Took it to 400 after that, and went 6/6 on this 10" plate in 12-20 mph gusting winds.
Took it to 400 after that, and went 6/6 on this 10" plate in 12-20 mph gusting winds.
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WKR
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Any pics of the updated stock?
Also we may start a go fund me for new steel plates.
OP
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PathFinder
WKR
The last picture a couple posts ago is how it sits today. I ran out of time to finish the CF work so that will have to happen over the next couple weeks because the gun is going hunting tomorrow and Saturday. It will be the ugliest gun on the mountain for now, but it's 5 lbs lighter than my other option.
Ha I dug that one out of the scrap pile at a previous job. Got all of my targets for free that way, including a bunch of wear plates that hold up really well.
Cool project - thanks for sharing.
Will the lube be used for the trigger? If so, I'm interested in what you find.
I like the 84, and have tested the trigger under freezing conditions. It didn't do well compared to some others. Only thing worse was one brand of 700-style trigger. But even the best were not 100% reliable.
OP
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PathFinder
WKR
The Kimber's maiden voyage went well. Shot was resting on my pack on a large rock. Rear support with a tripod leg. 465 yards with a SWFA 12x, I was just barely able to see the impact in the scope.
The load was pretty reasonable so it all went out in one trip. This little gun hangs out on the side of the pack really nicely.
I'm really thinking about chopping this barrel 2" down to 20". Others on the forum have done so DIY and they seemed to turn out really well. Still need to put the rifle through drop testing, full load development, finish the stock, coating, more in depth ice testing, and full trajectory validation. These rings look pretty robust but they were $20 on Amazon so the drop testing will be very thorough.
@4th_point I'm going to try some Interflon Fin Super dry Teflon lubricant: https://interflon.com/us/products/interflon-fin-super-dry-lube
I originally bought some for suspension uniballs. Also put it in the pivot of a couple Spyderco P3 LW knives and it is still going strong after a couple months where typical light oils etc would be done after a couple weeks. It's supposed to go on like a penetrating oil, then dry and leave nothing but little Teflon particles behind. I'll probably test it on something open/visibly accessible first to make sure it actually dries and leaves no oil residue behind.
The load was pretty reasonable so it all went out in one trip. This little gun hangs out on the side of the pack really nicely.
I'm really thinking about chopping this barrel 2" down to 20". Others on the forum have done so DIY and they seemed to turn out really well. Still need to put the rifle through drop testing, full load development, finish the stock, coating, more in depth ice testing, and full trajectory validation. These rings look pretty robust but they were $20 on Amazon so the drop testing will be very thorough.
@4th_point I'm going to try some Interflon Fin Super dry Teflon lubricant: https://interflon.com/us/products/interflon-fin-super-dry-lube
I originally bought some for suspension uniballs. Also put it in the pivot of a couple Spyderco P3 LW knives and it is still going strong after a couple months where typical light oils etc would be done after a couple weeks. It's supposed to go on like a penetrating oil, then dry and leave nothing but little Teflon particles behind. I'll probably test it on something open/visibly accessible first to make sure it actually dries and leaves no oil residue behind.
Thanks for the link.
I tested a bunch of triggers and have been thinking along similar lines, but didn't know about that product.
OP
OP
PathFinder
WKR
Lots of updates from drop testing, a major mechanical malfunction, trigger adjustment, and further ice testing.
First, the drop test:
The shots near the dot are the first ones. The one at the top left edge is the first zero check. After getting dragged around on the bear hunt, riding in the truck, and getting tipped off the cinder block/bags just prior to testing. The 1x18 drops showed no issue, as did the 1x36. The lowest shot was one of those, but I pulled that one. The first shot after the 9x36 drops fell into the normal cone, but the next 4 shifted right. It went from shooting its best group yet to stringing right...definitely looks like an issue with mounts. At this point, I'm almost certain it's the Amazon rings.
Going to try one more cheap ring before paying for NF Ultralights.
Below is the group I shot after upping ring cap torque to 30 in/lb and ring-base to 55 in/lb. It includes a pressure workup along with 5 standard 41 grain loads. Seems to be shifting similarly to the previous group. It will be interesting to see how the rifle shoots once it has better rings.
During all this testing, the trigger started to malfunction. The trigger was not engaging the sear, and the firing pin dropped on bolt close...including on live rounds. Luckily, it barely made a mark on the live primers. The problem was intermittent; sometimes it would happen a dozen or more times in a row, sometimes it would function correctly 20+ times in a row. For whatever reason, sometimes the trigger wouldn't engage the sear. This can be manually resolved by pushing the trigger forward. Maybe the trigger spring is a little weak? Maybe there's too much friction after blasting out the factory grease? Either way, it turned into an in-depth tweaking session with all three settings on the factory trigger.
Factory sear engagement:
Adjusted for way more sear engagement. This turns it into something like a 2 stage trigger.
What it looks like when the trigger fails to engage the sear:
I was a little curious after some recent conversations on Rokslide about over-travel and triggers with somewhat more of a rolling break. Maybe the gun writers were wrong again? I set it up with a bit of pre-travel and over travel on purpose, with a ~2.5lb pull weight. It's really different, but I'm going to test it for now. The pre-travel and its potential to get the system moving before breaking required a new ice test...
First, the drop test:
The shots near the dot are the first ones. The one at the top left edge is the first zero check. After getting dragged around on the bear hunt, riding in the truck, and getting tipped off the cinder block/bags just prior to testing. The 1x18 drops showed no issue, as did the 1x36. The lowest shot was one of those, but I pulled that one. The first shot after the 9x36 drops fell into the normal cone, but the next 4 shifted right. It went from shooting its best group yet to stringing right...definitely looks like an issue with mounts. At this point, I'm almost certain it's the Amazon rings.
- No fasteners loosened
- The rings are a poor design in terms of the clamp geometry. The clamp fails to engage the rail profile and slides down way too low to provide clamping in multiple axes.
Going to try one more cheap ring before paying for NF Ultralights.
Below is the group I shot after upping ring cap torque to 30 in/lb and ring-base to 55 in/lb. It includes a pressure workup along with 5 standard 41 grain loads. Seems to be shifting similarly to the previous group. It will be interesting to see how the rifle shoots once it has better rings.
During all this testing, the trigger started to malfunction. The trigger was not engaging the sear, and the firing pin dropped on bolt close...including on live rounds. Luckily, it barely made a mark on the live primers. The problem was intermittent; sometimes it would happen a dozen or more times in a row, sometimes it would function correctly 20+ times in a row. For whatever reason, sometimes the trigger wouldn't engage the sear. This can be manually resolved by pushing the trigger forward. Maybe the trigger spring is a little weak? Maybe there's too much friction after blasting out the factory grease? Either way, it turned into an in-depth tweaking session with all three settings on the factory trigger.
Factory sear engagement:
Adjusted for way more sear engagement. This turns it into something like a 2 stage trigger.
What it looks like when the trigger fails to engage the sear:
I was a little curious after some recent conversations on Rokslide about over-travel and triggers with somewhat more of a rolling break. Maybe the gun writers were wrong again? I set it up with a bit of pre-travel and over travel on purpose, with a ~2.5lb pull weight. It's really different, but I'm going to test it for now. The pre-travel and its potential to get the system moving before breaking required a new ice test...
OP
OP
PathFinder
WKR
The previous ice test is in the 2025 ice test thread, this will get duplicated there too. Basically the action and trigger get doused under running water before being placed in the freezer overnight, muzzle up. The rifle is stored in "backpacking" condition, chamber empty and safety off.
The FinSuper dry lube doesn't seem to be dry lube after all. I put some in the bolt raceway several days ago, and it left an oily film that is still present. I'm planning to dry some TriFlo or Dupont next. Some kind of surface-bonding dry lubricant could be the thing that gets the last little bit of mechanical reliability out of this system.
Example of the trigger not engaging the sear. After this condition, cycling the bolt repeatedly was what eventually allowed the trigger to engage again. Probably 15 cycles or so.
If you look closely, you can see how much ice is build up around the sear. It's a miracle that it was able to move so soon.
- The trigger moved immediately. The sear did not.
- With some extra force, the bolt was immediately able to cycle. This resulted in the sear releasing.
- At this point the trigger would no longer engage the sear.
- The firing pin indicator was frozen in place. Beating on the exposed back of it got it moving.
- A few bolt cycles later, the trigger was able to engage the sear. This was quite a surprise, I was walking to the safe to give it up for the morning, cycling the bolt on the way.
- After that, the trigger released the sear properly. The firing pin fell very lightly, and would not likely have fired. The next cycle fell harder, but not full power. By the 3rd and 4th cycles it appeared to be functioning normally.
The FinSuper dry lube doesn't seem to be dry lube after all. I put some in the bolt raceway several days ago, and it left an oily film that is still present. I'm planning to dry some TriFlo or Dupont next. Some kind of surface-bonding dry lubricant could be the thing that gets the last little bit of mechanical reliability out of this system.
Example of the trigger not engaging the sear. After this condition, cycling the bolt repeatedly was what eventually allowed the trigger to engage again. Probably 15 cycles or so.
If you look closely, you can see how much ice is build up around the sear. It's a miracle that it was able to move so soon.
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WKR
Lots more has been done with the gun since. The stock is now finished pending paint, I need to get a picture of it. I used Free Form Air epoxy dough to fill some imperfections, and shorten the trigger reach. Then added a layer of CF over that. It's up to around 26 oz. now. The extra material now in the grip area could be hogged out and filled with foam, may do that at some point.
DiscoveryOpt's rings have better clamp geometry, so those are on the gun now. No drop testing yet, but they're holding zero in normal use. Load development was getting really frustrating. Everything was very erratic and 3 MOA+. As a last resort, I swapped an NF SHV 3-10 in place of the SWFA 12x. Things tightened up drastically at that point. That said, I made a couple other changes too, so the 12x still needs one more check before getting sent for repair/replacement.
This Kimber has one other glaring defect. The throat is cut extremely deep vs mag length. 156 EOL are around 2.975 to reach the lands. The goofy little magazine only allows ~2.82. The throat depth is actually quite optimal, but the magazine is a dud. It feeds ok, but with 3 rounds it tends to let the top round hit the ejector and get pushed forward under the feed ramp because the motion to insert the magazine isn't just straight up into the action. The longer bullets are shooting much better around 2.9" COAL. One exception has been the 130 HVLD, which shoot extremely well at mag length. Right now I'm brainstorming a way to chop up some kind of R700 SA AICS, maybe Magpul's Hunter version, and epoxying it in the mag well of the Kimber stock. Still some concept work to be done, but that's the next major project now that load development is almost done. Still need to try the 147 ELD at 2.9" with N560.
156 EOL, 45 gr. N560 at 2.9" COAL. Pretty sure I yanked that right one. Will verify with a 10 shot group if this is the bullet I settle on
130 HVLD, 43.5 gr RL16 at mag length.
DiscoveryOpt's rings have better clamp geometry, so those are on the gun now. No drop testing yet, but they're holding zero in normal use. Load development was getting really frustrating. Everything was very erratic and 3 MOA+. As a last resort, I swapped an NF SHV 3-10 in place of the SWFA 12x. Things tightened up drastically at that point. That said, I made a couple other changes too, so the 12x still needs one more check before getting sent for repair/replacement.
This Kimber has one other glaring defect. The throat is cut extremely deep vs mag length. 156 EOL are around 2.975 to reach the lands. The goofy little magazine only allows ~2.82. The throat depth is actually quite optimal, but the magazine is a dud. It feeds ok, but with 3 rounds it tends to let the top round hit the ejector and get pushed forward under the feed ramp because the motion to insert the magazine isn't just straight up into the action. The longer bullets are shooting much better around 2.9" COAL. One exception has been the 130 HVLD, which shoot extremely well at mag length. Right now I'm brainstorming a way to chop up some kind of R700 SA AICS, maybe Magpul's Hunter version, and epoxying it in the mag well of the Kimber stock. Still some concept work to be done, but that's the next major project now that load development is almost done. Still need to try the 147 ELD at 2.9" with N560.
156 EOL, 45 gr. N560 at 2.9" COAL. Pretty sure I yanked that right one. Will verify with a 10 shot group if this is the bullet I settle on
130 HVLD, 43.5 gr RL16 at mag length.
@PathFinder super interesting thread, and great to see your progress. In regards to ice testing and trigger reliability, have you done (or do you know of) any testing on the TriggerTech aftermarket triggers for the 84?
Also interested to see how the magazine modifications go. I also am not a big fan of the stock Hunter mag. Not sure if it’s just mine, but with three rounds in the mag I can hardly cycle the bolt, effectively reducing it to a 2 +1 capacity. Could probably do some modifications to the spring/follower but haven’t gotten around to it yet. Plus the problems already mentioned.
Also interested to see how the magazine modifications go. I also am not a big fan of the stock Hunter mag. Not sure if it’s just mine, but with three rounds in the mag I can hardly cycle the bolt, effectively reducing it to a 2 +1 capacity. Could probably do some modifications to the spring/follower but haven’t gotten around to it yet. Plus the problems already mentioned.
This was a common fault with early mags. I got a new one under warranty for my original 2 mags. I've got 3 good ones and 2 bad ones now. I need to strip the bad ones and see what changed.
Edited for clarity
Edited for clarity
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PathFinder
WKR
I'm not aware of anyone testing the Kimber Triggertech, but the Remington ones sure struggle. At this point, having tested a handful of triggers, my conclusion is that none of them are ice proof. The good ones, (Tikka, and I'd include the factory Kimber) can be freed up by:
- Getting the trigger moving
- Racking the bolt to get the sear moving
- Smacking the cocking indicator to get the firing pin moving
- If necessary, pull the bolt, hold the gun upside down, and heat the trigger group through the sear with a lighter.
OP
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PathFinder
WKR
Got some velocity data from a couple loads. Still might do some tinkering with different bullets, but the 130 HVLD is the clear front runner for now.
- 130 HVLD, 43.5 RL16: 2900 fps
- 145 BMB, 47 N560: 2800 fps. This load was probably too hot for field use
- 145 BMB, 45 N560: 2700 fps. Reasonable load.
I’d be curious what you find. I sent my original in as well which was fixed or they swapped out (not sure which and it was several years ago). And have purchased a couple more within the last 2 years which don’t seem to have issues - this is on a 7-08 hunter.
Load 3 rounds the 3rd will tell you. Its difficult to load the third and once it's in place loading the mag into the rifle will require excessive force with a closed bolt. You can't miss a bad one.
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