Help LS Wild design the new stock!

[mtnwrunner]

Youre on the right track with the MS grip, dont change to appease the people who shoot with the wrong hand

Once again, blatant discrimination.

 

[wind gypsy]

Short chunky fore end.


Sounds like a more expensive, less modular bravo alternative than a hunting stock alternative.

 

[hereinaz]

Certainly, thanks for listening. I will look for pictures that I recall seeing of other shooters using the MS and my recollection is that the straight up thumb position is what they all use. I’m not sure it is magic, but that thumb position is much more comfortable for me and my hand size (large gloves). For me, laying the thumb over the grip when the cutout places the meaty portion of the hand at the base of the thumb much closer to the line of the bore than most any other stock, is awkward.
I have never previously thought about the transition from grip to bolt and back based on thumb position with the MS but will try some transitions and post my thoughts. Theoretically however, a straight up thumb requires less movement to reach the bolt knob and return.

I like my thumb in line with the bore, relaxed. I sometimes shoot like that on flat range. One issue for me is comfort of the blockiness is that my thumb is not relaxed when it is vertical.

For you, would it matter if the thumb laid down more? Or, is the vertical position of the thumb part of the comfort for you?

Hunting, I tend to wrap because I need to manipulate the rifle. In that situation I want as much real estate to place my hand.

 

[Schmo]

Once again, blatant discrimination.

Around here, we’re not afraid to discriminate

 

[hereinaz]

Short chunky fore end.
View attachment 1035579

Sounds like a more expensive, less modular bravo alternative than a hunting stock alternative.

What’s your preferred forend look like? I am not above carving is up more, only the bottom needs to be flatish, IMO. And I intend to make sure it’s nice to carry.

What in the forend length you want? Doesn’t need to come short. Part of the allure/idea is that people can customize/personalize some aspects easily.

We want to see about making it as appealing as possible… whether we can or not…

 

[Tom-D]

Maybe make the butt with 2 infill pieces that sandwhich from either side so you can either have it open or closed in the same platform. Maybe even in plastic so it doesn't add weight.

 

[hereinaz]

Maybe make the butt with 2 infill pieces that sandwhich from either side so you can either have it open or closed in the same platform. Maybe even in plastic so it doesn't add weight.

Something like that could be fashioned. I expect some would like something like that.

 

[Bluumoon]

Short chunky fore end.
View attachment 1035579

Sounds like a more expensive, less modular bravo alternative than a hunting stock alternative.

Maybe make the butt with 2 infill pieces that sandwhich from either side so you can either have it open or closed in the same platform. Maybe even in plastic so it doesn't add weight.

Is there a functional reason why?

 

[wind gypsy]

What’s your preferred forend look like? I am not above carving is up more, only the bottom needs to be flatish, IMO. And I intend to make sure it’s nice to carry.

What in the forend length you want? Doesn’t need to come short. Part of the allure/idea is that people can customize/personalize some aspects easily.

We want to see about making it as appealing as possible… whether we can or not…

You made me compare a bravo to a rokstok to answer this.. Bravo aint that bad i guess. My impression of them has been tainted a bit by having my only remaining bravo with a FL ARCA on a 16# NRL rifle. It's not THAT chonky. Probably the weight that makes me look at them that way.

But Rokstok ish fore end with manners pro-hunter (non)barrel channel is pretty ideal IMO which i dont think would be that far off from a bravo fore end?

 

[Wilfred]

I like my thumb in line with the bore, relaxed. I sometimes shoot like that on flat range. One issue for me is comfort of the blockiness is that my thumb is not relaxed when it is vertical.

For you, would it matter if the thumb laid down more? Or, is the vertical position of the thumb part of the comfort for you?

Hunting, I tend to wrap because I need to manipulate the rifle. In that situation I want as much real estate to place my hand.

The most important part for me is that the thumb is in line with the bore, as it helps with recoil control, spotting shots and quickly acquiring the target when setting up the shot. On the T3 Sporter which I have the most experience with, the thumb is vertical from the first joint to the knuckle, the portion from the knuckle to the tip of the thumb is horizontal or laid down more. So it is hard to say without feeling the modification, how it would affect comfort and utility.
I have often heard shooters who have trained extensively with 1911’s, but who were either forced or chose to switch to other platforms with different grip angles, remark that returning to a 1911 was like shaking hands with an old friend. That is how I felt when I first tried the MS/ T3 Sporter.
I appreciate your openness for input on this project and wish you every success. At the end of the day you cannot please every potential customer and I don’t envy you the decision making.

Something like that could be fashioned. I expect some would like something like that.

 

[Tom-D]

Is there a functional reason why?

Not sure if your question was to me or the other comment but my thinking was more that im unsure if i would like the open centre in use like in theory it shouldn't matter but once i start using it there might be something i dont like about it and a cheap plastic 3d printed infill piece would give me piece of mind to know if i dont like it i can just fill it in without adding to much weight. Could possibly incorporate a sleeve in it you can slide a dope card in or something along those lines aswell

 

[BBob]

I like my thumb in line with the bore, relaxed. I sometimes shoot like that on flat range. One issue for me is comfort of the blockiness is that my thumb is not relaxed when it is vertical.

For you, would it matter if the thumb laid down more? Or, is the vertical position of the thumb part of the comfort for you?

Hunting, I tend to wrap because I need to manipulate the rifle. In that situation I want as much real estate to place my hand.

I shoot everything hunting and on the range with the thumb to the right of centerline. The thumb loosely rides the stock in a naturally relaxed position just above the base of the index finger. Depending on stock design the thumb might lie slightly left of the finger or directly above it. I've learned to cup the stock with the palm of the hand and the first three fingers without needing much out of the thumb at all. On chassis I use a thumb button and rest my thumb on the button (or shelf). I have largish hands and on some stock designs (and larger cartridges) if I put my thumb centerline directly behind the bolt shroud the shroud can smash the thumb and fingernail. No bueno to that!

 

[Gstew1930]

I shoot everything hunting and on the range with the thumb to the right of centerline. The thumb loosely rides the stock in a naturally relaxed position just above the base of the index finger. Depending on stock design the thumb might lie slightly left of the finger or directly above it. I've learned to cup the stock with the palm of the hand and the first three fingers without needing much out of the thumb at all. On chassis I use a thumb button and rest my thumb on the button (or shelf). I have largish hands and on some stock designs (and larger cartridges) if I put my thumb centerline directly behind the bolt shroud the shroud can smash the thumb and fingernail. No bueno to that!

Gross . Just playing around

 

[Bluumoon]

Not sure if your question was to me or the other comment but my thinking was more that im unsure if i would like the open centre in use like in theory it shouldn't matter but once i start using it there might be something i dont like about it and a cheap plastic 3d printed infill piece would give me piece of mind to know if i dont like it i can just fill it in without adding to much weight. Could possibly incorporate a sleeve in it you can slide a dope card in or something along those lines aswell

Was meant for you, but I left the other one bc the question kind of applied there too. I think it would be interesting to ink the fingers and see what parts of the stock are actually being used.

 

[Tom-D]

Was meant for you, but I left the other one bc the question kind of applied there too. I think it would be interesting to ink the fingers and see what parts of the stock are actually being used.

Yeah for sure and i think it would be no problem at all but could also be something stupid like it snags on my bag and takes longer to take off unlikely but seemed like a cheap fix to know there is an easy solution. Also just for aesthetics too if someone doesn't like the open look they wont instantly rule it out for them as the option is there for it.

 

[hereinaz]

You made me compare a bravo to a rokstok to answer this.. Bravo aint that bad i guess. My impression of them has been tainted a bit by having my only remaining bravo with a FL ARCA on a 16# NRL rifle. It's not THAT chonky. Probably the weight that makes me look at them that way.

But Rokstok ish fore end with manners pro-hunter (non)barrel channel is pretty ideal IMO which i dont think would be that far off from a bravo fore end?

Form follow function, so flat bottom, with enough rounding for comfortable carry, and one big barrel channel is my plan. I think it puts it right where you are thinking.

Same brain pattern on this one I think. Length is up for most variation.

 

[hereinaz]

The most important part for me is that the thumb is in line with the bore, as it helps with recoil control, spotting shots and quickly acquiring the target when setting up the shot. On the T3 Sporter which I have the most experience with, the thumb is vertical from the first joint to the knuckle, the portion from the knuckle to the tip of the thumb is horizontal or laid down more. So it is hard to say without feeling the modification, how it would affect comfort and utility.
I have often heard shooters who have trained extensively with 1911’s, but who were either forced or chose to switch to other platforms with different grip angles, remark that returning to a 1911 was like shaking hands with an old friend. That is how I felt when I first tried the MS/ T3 Sporter.
I appreciate your openness for input on this project and wish you every success. At the end of the day you cannot please every potential customer and I don’t envy you the decision making.

The 1911 is an excellent example, and one I endorse. My goal for this version is the most friendly handshake.

You have me curious what will be the most universally comfortable shape for immediately behind the tang.

 

[hereinaz]

I shoot everything hunting and on the range with the thumb to the right of centerline. The thumb loosely rides the stock in a naturally relaxed position just above the base of the index finger. Depending on stock design the thumb might lie slightly left of the finger or directly above it. I've learned to cup the stock with the palm of the hand and the first three fingers without needing much out of the thumb at all. On chassis I use a thumb button and rest my thumb on the button (or shelf). I have largish hands and on some stock designs (and larger cartridges) if I put my thumb centerline directly behind the bolt shroud the shroud can smash the thumb and fingernail. No bueno to that!

My thumb won’t rest in that position at all. I have to bring it at least centerline. Recoil can smash thumbs there. It’s why I wrap with high recoil rifles.

I know lots that like to shoot with thumb on finger side. It’s a design question to make it work.

I cup my palm into my three fingers too for most shooting. I like a full wrap for more positive control. Personal choice and such in that area.

 

[BBob]

I know lots that like to shoot with thumb on finger side. It’s a design question to make it work.

I can make pretty much any stock work with the thumb off to the side so I'm not sure anything special needs to be done.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I understand there are theoretical advantages to different thumb placement, but I have a hard time understanding why you want to market for a particular style.