Help LS Wild design the new stock!

[Brandon.miller.4]

Sure looks like a copy of a bravo to me. KRG should be pissed.

 

[Schmo]

Sure looks like a copy of a bravo to me. KRG should be pissed.

And it’s gonna look different from the concept in the end!

It may be wise for people to hold judgment until we post an official CAD drawing to decide whether or not we’re copying anyone…

 

[Brandon.miller.4]

And it’s gonna look different from the concept in the end!

It may be wise for people to hold judgment until we post an official CAD drawing to decide whether or not we’re copying anyone…

The world is a sensitive place with a lack of patience.

 

[BBob]

Wait, what? What about our concept is plagiarism of a Rokstok?

View attachment 1034712

Looks more like you're ripping off a Bravowerx

 

[MuleyFever]

I guess you could have expected this thread would end up here.

What i am seeing is a completely different stock with some of the same ergonomic cues. Like was said, if you want a rokstock, this isn't it.

Some of you must be upset we have more than one bolt action manufacturer. Isn't there a thread on a Tikka clone? Is it full of pitchforks?

 

[Brandon.miller.4]

I guess you could have expected this thread would end up here.

What i am seeing is a completely different stock with some of the same ergonomic cues. Like was said, if you want a rokstock, this isn't it.

Some of you must be upset we have more than one bolt action manufacturer. Isn't there a thread on a Tikka clone? Is it full of pitchforks?

Ive yet to be convinced of a reason for a tikka clone...

 

[BBob]

Isn't there a thread on a Tikka clone?

You didn't just go there did you?

 

[Formidilosus]

The project has material differences. I have been drawing, thinking about, and messing with stock designs for years.

Everything about the Rokstock was floating in my mind for years, except the negative comb, because I realized a soft jaw weld is all that is needed for precision. Years ago I gave up adjustable cheek pieces and didn’t like the Rokstock I tried cause the cheek is too high.

Functionally, the extra buttpad that comes with the Rokstock to take it over bore is overrated in my mind as well. It doesn’t fit my philosophy of use or the way I shoot. I know others that love it for their purposes and style.

Overall, the origin for me came from conversations with another member about making a Mastersporter style stock. Months ago I looked into stock copying jigs because of the demand I saw for it. The member also sold me on the shootability. I had no desire to copy the Rokstock, but that comparison is part of the story.

Schmo wanted a copy, yes, but when I tagged in it was to make a stock with desirable features, and with the Mastersporter build already in mind.

The Mastersporter plus features I want is what I am building. It may share features with the Rokstock, because it incorporates good design.

You asked how I learned. The negative comb was from the Rokstock. Everything else was not new to me.

I don’t know why the assumption is made that I was ignorant of any of the other features.

McMillan A10 had short trigger reach, I saw that and realized the awesome fit when it released at SHOT years ago. Since, I added to grips. Bravo has it too.

Many stocks have had the butt hook with a flat toe. Benchrest and FClass have had flat toe and forend for bag riding. Mastersporter has had fairly flat toe. Newer stocks like the Clymer, Bastion, and others have been moving to flatter toes for the same reason the Rokstock did.

PRS chassis where I did most of my learning years ago had the flat vertical grip, flat toe, adjustable butt plate to put above bore line on chassis. I added adjustable butt plate to explore raising the butt pad over bore years ago when I was a Neanderthal shooting Savage rifles...

There are more places to learn these things than Rokslide. My understanding and preference for stock design was solidified before I became aware of the discussion on Rokslide.

As far as I am concerned, Rokstock did put together element in a unique way, but the element are not unique. Others use it as a shorthand to describe the features. I could describe everything about the features of the Rokstock with reference to long existing designs I knew about before the Rokstock was a thing. The final design will be able to point to many other stocks with similar design features.

To anyone who wants a Rokstock, this won’t be it.

As I made clear it will not be a copy, and in good faith to the forum owners, this process has been open and transparent.

I am not hiding or being sneaky.

Like I said, I think it’s bad business to straight up copy. All it takes is a call from the powers that be and I will shut it down or modify.

But, for me this is a Mastersporter/Bravo inspired design.

There are far more opportunities to develop gear, cooperate to build community, and increase awareness. It isn’t a zero sum game.

I’ll leave your thread alone if possible after this:

This is exactly what I referred to. You realize that all your posts and the arguments, your knowledge of, thoughts and “experience” of stocks and chassis (not to mention bags, knives, shot group sizes, bonded guns, etc) are available to be read? It’s pretty obvious to those who look to see that your “knowledge” changed on a bunch off those things from discussions on the board.

You do you- I genuinely wish you well.

 

[HuntHarder]

I thought we wanted the " industry" to change? Does not look like a copy to me. There are only so many features that can be different on stocks. As of now, I see no reason to call it a copy.

 

[Schmo]

For those who are concerned, you need to read every word in my screenshot from the original post:

 

[Formidilosus]

I guess you could have expected this thread would end up here.

What i am seeing is a completely different stock with some of the same ergonomic cues. Like was said, if you want a rokstock, this isn't it.

You are correct- “this” isn’t a ROKStok that he is showing- it’s a modified KRG bravo. As I stated, this isn’t or wasn’t my point. It was only when it was stated that people are saying they are knocking off the design, and then the OP said “no we aren’t, never were”. When, that’s exactly how this project started.

My goal was to point out intellectual honesty. They can make whatever they want- there is no butt hurt from me.

 

[hereinaz]

I disagree with many here. We have a grown man caught with open, blatant plagiarism that resorts to rationalizing and denial to overcome owning his error and assessing his shortcomings.

I’m not perfect either, but if you get caught, at least own it, give yourself an honest self assessment and avoid obfuscating.

If you made a one off stock or a few for yourself, that’s one thing. However, this is a product marketed to the same people as the real deal on the platform that exists because of those who designed the real deal.

This is completely absurd and completely avoidable if people were honest with themselves and their intent.

That’s a view.

Schmo asked for a copy from the source. The thread lingered.

I came in and said I was thinking about a stock that would be close based on features I like. It was based on years of messing about. For me, as stated it was based on what I like: A10 grip style, the Bravo squareness, tweak based on the Mastersporter, and built for hunting.

I was clear how I viewed the project and laid it out. Most of features of the Rokstock were not revolutionary to me.

I can see where Form is coming from, but we both have been toying with ideas for years. Some features we agree, others we don’t.

If you start with the assumption that the features are new to the Rokstock, then it looks like copying.

If you start with the assumption that I discovered many of the features over the years, then it is the natural shifts in design and demand.

Again, do what you will with it. Make your opinion.

Bottom line is I have been explicit. Form

If anyone personally wants to have a conversation and shut this down, my contact information is out there.

 

[Formidilosus]

I thought we wanted the " industry" to change? Does not look like a copy to me. There are only so many features that can be different on stocks. As of now, I see no reason to call it a copy.

You tend to do this. How is the original start of “this” stock- “changing the industry”?

Actually read the original thread. Read what they wrote. Then come back and read what I wrote in my first post here quoting the OP about a specific statement. I do not care personally if they do copy the stock- that wasn’t my goal. All I was doing is correcting what was stated- it was about intellectual honesty and not revising history.

That’s it.

 

[hereinaz]

You are correct- “this” isn’t a ROKStok that he is showing- it’s a modified KRG bravo. As I stated, this isn’t or wasn’t my point. It was only when it was stated that people are saying they are knocking off the design, and then the OP said “no we aren’t, never were”. When, that’s exactly how this project started.

My goal was to point out intellectual honesty. They can make whatever they want- there is no butt hurt from me.

Being specific is important. I appreciate that you acknowledge it is based on a Bravo.

I hope everyone got said what they want and it clears enough up that I hope we get back to designing a nice stock.

Historically:

1) Schmo started a conversation asking for a copy.

2) I (LS Wild) joined and explicitly said it would not be a copy.

This is an LS project and the project NEVER started as a copy of the Rokstock.

Because Schmo has good ideas, after significant conversations between us, I asked him to start this thread on a stock that is NOT A ROKSTOCK.

It is 100% transparent what happened.

If the powers that be don’t want this Mastersporter/Bravo inspired stock, then they know how to contact me.

 

[HuntHarder]

You tend to do this. How is the original start of “this” stock- “changing the industry”?

Actually read the original thread. Read what they wrote. Then come back and read what I wrote in my first post here quoting the OP about a specific statement. I do not care personally if they do copy the stock- that wasn’t my goal. All I was doing is correcting what was stated- it was about intellectual honesty and not revising history.

That’s it.

Hmm, to me it is adding another stock to the market, that lots on this site like the features of. Flat toe, negative comb, butt/boreline, shorter trigger pull, trying to slim down a laminate. There are only a few stocks on the market that have those features.

If all you are trying to prove is that LS wild said he " would copy", then you have proved that. He also said in his next sentence, that from a business stand point, he would not copy anything unique. Seems like end of story to me...

 

[hereinaz]

I’ll leave your thread alone if possible after this:

This is exactly what I referred to. You realize that all your posts and the arguments, your knowledge of, thoughts and “experience” of stocks and chassis (not to mention bags, knives, shot group sizes, bonded guns, etc) are available to be read? It’s pretty obvious to those who look to see that your “knowledge” changed on a bunch off those things from discussions on the board.

You do you- I genuinely wish you well.

Yes, I have learned things about bags, knives, shot sizes, and bonded actions. That’s why I love the forum.

To your credit, I also didn’t know/think of lubrication/cleaning of AR15, specific fit of 1911 for shootability, drop proof scopes, or the use of 77 TMK. You get credit for all that too.

I also finally converted to the Tikka, mostly after I saw I could do some group buys and make buying prefits easier. You were responsible for a lot of that too.

For this project, the design is based loosely on the Bravo cause Schmo and I like how shoots. It’s also gonna be a lot like the Boyd’s Pro Varmint. I was also willing to look into it because months ago I heard about the Mastersporter. I saw the possibility of making a stock I like and meet a demand.

I am sure I will learn more after comments from others on this thread.

 

[BLJ]

It seems as though Boyd’s no longer offers there standalone kit that allows a Ruger American to use AR15 mags any longer.

This puts a real damper on my plans for the stock.

You guys need to come up with a way to take care of that, too.