Help choosing ideal chambering/rifle to shoot lead free projectiles.

[geenhead93]

Hi there, first post on here after reading quite a bit. I am in the process of choosing a new big game chambering/rifle. I have really been enjoying reading and learning from the various terminal performance threads proving the efficacy of "smaller" calibers and lower recoiling chamberings when the right projectile is used and placed correctly (.223, 6mm, and 6.5mm threads). I am wondering if the general consensus is that this line of thinking holds true for copper monos or if larger calibers are necessary due to decreased performance of these projectiles? It is my understanding that higher impact velocities are important for these bullets. So what would the ideal chambering/rifle be? A fast 6mm such as the .243win or 6mmCM seems like it could fit the bill or would something larger and still fast like the 6.5 PRC or .270win be a better choice? I am not yet reloading so factory available ammunition is a factor. The intended use of the rifle would be deer and black bear out to 400yds for now.

Thank you all so much for all the great info.

 

[cjdewese]

Following, I am in the exact same boat. I have researched a lot from the 25-06 to the 243 and so far I think I am leaning towards a 1 in 8 tikka in 243 with factory options already available and the ability to load for up to 115g if I get into that.

 

[Mtnmilsurp]

I think the best thing going right now for factory loaded monos is the Barnes 6 Creedmoor VORTX Long Range with their 95 grain LRX.

You get all the speed a mono wants out to your indicated range with a BC that is at least in the .400s and an easier expanding bullet than the TTSX.

The only other factory load that shares that goodness of speed and LRX is their .270 VORTX long range with 129 LRX but for a lot more recoil.

 

[Wapiti151]

Not shooting them anymore but have had really good luck on deer and caribou in the past with 6.5prc shooting factory 127 lrx…never needed a second shot. I think you are good with any of the calibers you listed as long as you keep em moving at 2-2200+

 

[Macintosh]

I think the best thing going right now for factory loaded monos is the Barnes 6 Creedmoor VORTX Long Range with their 95 grain LRX.

You get all the speed a mono wants out to your indicated range with a BC that is at least in the .400s and an easier expanding bullet than the TTSX.

The only other factory load that shares that goodness of speed and LRX is their .270 VORTX long range with 129 LRX but for a lot more recoil.

^^this is about my thoughts as well. I went with a 270win specifically for this reason, 6cm not being offered at the time and also much harder to find in general, and wanted to keep a standard bolt face (or a 6.5 prc would have been a good option). Only thing to add is that if you are hunting at sea level a 1:10 twist 270 may not stabilize some of the higher-bc boutique monos. Bergers calculator says even the 129 LRX is on the line at sea level, although folks have told me theirs shoot fine. I have a bunch but am going through a couple years of standard ttsx’s first.

 

[blkqi]

To the extent that smaller calibers rely on frangible projectiles to achieve their noted killing performance, your options are going to be really limited in the monolithic space.

 

[Koda_]

The intended use of the rifle would be deer and black bear out to 400yds for now.

Any medium game caliber will still be optimal with a monolithic bullet. The main difference is you will often have to go to a lighter monolithic because they weigh less than led so the equivalent weight mono takes up more room inside the case reducing velocity potential, so you make up for a lighter bullet with faster velocities. This is not a disadvantage just a different approach.
You mentioned not handloading right now which is a factor, there are less factory ammo options with monos so maybe research what ammo brands are making them in the calibers your interested in and check their availability.

For medium game out to 400yds most any of the popular calibers will be fine. I would stay within the .257 to 30cal range, and probably favor ones that offer higher velocities. 6.5CM, 270, 25-06, 280ai would all be great.

 

[HandgunHTR]

I am assuming that you have to shoot monos due to living in a state that requires them. Unfortunately, those states also don't allow suppressors.

If I were in the same boat, I would be looking at a 6.5PRC or 7PRC. More recoil, but it would get me the speeds necessary to ensure more than "average" performance with monos.

Now, if you cut your intended distance in half and start reloading, then my suggestion would be the 6.5 Grendel using one of the lighter monos designed to open at lower velocities, such as the Hammer or Cavity Back bullets.

Another choice would be to use one of the custom ammo loaders (Choice, Unknown Munitions, etc.) and have them load something for a gun like a 6UM

 

[CKcountry]

The 6.5 and 7 PRC are both great cartridges. The 270 WSM is also a nice cartridge if you are interested in a 270. If you hand load, you will be able to develop a load for your purpose.

 

[geenhead93]

I have also looked into the .25-06 some. The lack of factory rifles with adequate twist is an issue. The 6cm has a lot going for it but there isn't many quality and affordable rifle options outside of the custom route. Pretty much only the Ruger American and Howa 1500 unless I'm mistaken? The 1:8 twist tikka in .243win would be nice but doesn't have the best factory ammo options (no lrx). I was hoping to find something with lower recoil but something in 6.5 PRC or the Browning X-bolt Speed LR with the 1:7 twist in .270win seem like front runners atm. Reloading is looking more and more like a necessity.

 

[CKcountry]

Recoil with the 6.5 PRC is really not that bad. If you can use a suppressor or a break it really isn’t an issue

 

[Jason Snyder]

I think the best thing going right now for factory loaded monos is the Barnes 6 Creedmoor VORTX Long Range with their 95 grain LRX.

You get all the speed a mono wants out to your indicated range with a BC that is at least in the .400s and an easier expanding bullet than the TTSX.

The only other factory load that shares that goodness of speed and LRX is their .270 VORTX long range with 129 LRX but for a lot more recoil.

This is very good advice.

If you don’t go this route, a 6.5 CM with a 120 grain Barnes or a 6.5 PRC with the same or a 140 Barnes would be #2 and 3 for me.

Handloads open up a whole new realm of options, like Hammers.

 

[JFK]

This site is great but the very predictable, singular focus on barrel twist and heavy bullets gets old. You don’t need fast barrel twist or ultra heavy bullets to shoot 400 yards. The 6.5 creedmoor is a very poor choice of shooting monos. It’s slow, and if you drop weight enough to get your velocity up, you’ve just given up any BC advantage and then some. 270 and 6.5 PRC are twins until after around 600 yards where the PRC can out run the 270.

 

[Jason Snyder]

This site is great but the very predictable, singular focus on barrel twist and heavy bullets gets old. You don’t need fast barrel twist or ultra heavy bullets to shoot 400 yards. The 6.5 creedmoor is a very poor choice of shooting monos. It’s slow, and if you drop weight enough to get your velocity up, you’ve just given up any BC advantage and then some. 270 and 6.5 PRC are twins until after around 600 yards where the PRC can out run the 270.

You contradicted yourself in your advice. Actually, you want a relatively fast twist in order to stabilize the longer monolithic bullets. Also, the 6.5 is plenty fast enough to shoot monolithics out to 400 yards. Look at your ballistic dope on any of these, and you are carrying well in excess of 1900 ft./s out to 400 yards,which will expand a Barnes LRX quite well.

Also, given the OP is limiting himself to 400 yard shots, the significance of BC is drastically reduced. Therefore, he doesn’t need to shoot the heavier monolithic bullets that you recommend.

With the caveat I am shooting handloads, in my 6.5 Creedmoor I am starting with a muzzle velocity of 2900 ft./s for a 124 grain monolithic bullet. Still at 2000 ft./s at 400 yards. How is that limiting range window?

 

[nobody]

To help in our “advice giving,” is this a personal choice to shoot monos, or is it politically required based on your hunt destinations?

Additionally, your yardage limit the sort of thing where “oh I’ll never shoot beyond 400 because I don’t do the long range thing” or is it more “I hunt somewhere that I can’t even see 400 yards because of the thick timber”

If it’s the first of the two (or if it’s a political requirement), one day you may well hit a point where you’ll feel comfortable shooting further. And if so, picking a “higher performance” chambering like a 6 creed or something along those lines will help you balance some of the ballistic shortcomings of the monolithic projectiles.

If it’s more of “I’ll literally never hunt a location where I can even shoot that far,” then pick whatever the flip cartridge you want and run it. A 243 pushing a TTSX will easily perform how Barnes designed it to work to 300 yards, as will pretty much any other cartridge. Flip a coin at that point. It won’t be the same terminal performance you see from a TMK/ELDX/ELDM, but it’ll work fine.

Bottom line, pick the bullet you wanna run. Then get on the manufacturer’s website and find the minimum expansion velocity threshold. Plug your bullet/chambering combination into a ballistic calculator. Then find the crossover point where the bullet crosses that minimum expansion velocity threshold. If I’m being nit-picky with the monos, I would subtract about 100 yards from that distance and keep that as my distance cap.

As an example, I just plugged an 80 grain Barnes TTSX into my ballistic calculator. Barnes minimum expansion velocity on impact for that bullet is 2200 FPS (off the top of my head). If my muzzle velocity is 3000 FPS (again, spitballing from my time owning a 243), I cross 2200 FPS almost right at 400 yards (velocity is 2209.8 fps at 400). So I would cap that load combo as a maximum effective range of 300-ish yards. If I can somehow push that same bullet 150 FPS faster (now 3150 at the muzzle, should be about right for a 6 creed), my crossover point moves to about 475 yards, capping my maximum effective range at between 375 and 400 yards.

Play that game with your desired projectiles and then make your decision from there.

 

[Caseknife]

Barnes Vor-Tx 6.5 CM 120, or the 6.5 PRC 127 LRX for factory fodder or the 6CM with 95 LRX, whatever is more available in your area. My 6.5 PRC Win 70 with 22" Benchmark shoots the 127LRX at 3200 with RL-25.

 

[Formidilosus]

Hi there, first post on here after reading quite a bit. I am in the process of choosing a new big game chambering/rifle. I have really been enjoying reading and learning from the various terminal performance threads proving the efficacy of "smaller" calibers and lower recoiling chamberings when the right projectile is used and placed correctly (.223, 6mm, and 6.5mm threads). I am wondering if the general consensus is that this line of thinking holds true for copper monos or if larger calibers are necessary due to decreased performance of these projectiles? It is my understanding that higher impact velocities are important for these bullets. So what would the ideal chambering/rifle be? A fast 6mm such as the .243win or 6mmCM seems like it could fit the bill or would something larger and still fast like the 6.5 PRC or .270win be a better choice? I am not yet reloading so factory available ammunition is a factor. The intended use of the rifle would be deer and black bear out to 400yds for now.

Thank you all so much for all the great info.

DRT Technology Terminal Shock.

79gr .224
95gr .243
135gr .264


Loaded ammo in 223, 243, 6.5cm. Those are the best performing lead free bullets right now.

 

[Lou270]

6.5/prc270 win is your huckleberry. Dont need anything more powerful for your purposes. The 270 has advantage of super availability. The 6.5 prc is shorter action. The 6.5 prc is nice round but offers nothing over 270 Win if shooting mono bullets from performance standpoint.

Lou

 

[JFK]

You contradicted yourself in your advice. Actually, you want a relatively fast twist in order to stabilize the longer monolithic bullets. Also, the 6.5 is plenty fast enough to shoot monolithics out to 400 yards. Look at your ballistic dope on any of these, and you are carrying well in excess of 1900 ft./s out to 400 yards,which will expand a Barnes LRX quite well.

Also, given the OP is limiting himself to 400 yard shots, the significance of BC is drastically reduced. Therefore, he doesn’t need to shoot the heavier monolithic bullets that you recommend.

With the caveat I am shooting handloads, in my 6.5 Creedmoor I am starting with a muzzle velocity of 2900 ft./s for a 124 grain monolithic bullet. Still at 2000 ft./s at 400 yards. How is that limiting range window?

Not sure where I contradicted myself. Also not sure where I suggested a heavier mono bullet. I don’t think a heavy for cartridge mono is a good idea at all. A 6.5 creedmoor can work for monos, but if you are starting from scratch it’s not where I’d look. A 6cm, 243, 6.5 PRC, even a 270 is a better choice if a guy knows he’ll be using monos at conventional distances. Something that gets you the velocity up front because you will need it. Being right on the margins of recommended velocities isn’t where I want to be. Barnes’ suggested velocity’s are pretty “optimistic.” Any of the above cartridges put you in a much better position with regard to velocity. The 6.5cm craps out at 400 yards with monos. The ones above are good to 600, and offer a better margin for expansion at conventional distances inside of 400.

 

[Koda_]

A fast 6mm such as the .243win or 6mmCM seems like it could fit the bill or would something larger and still fast like the 6.5 PRC or .270win be a better choice? I am not yet reloading so factory available ammunition is a factor.

This depends on what you want to hunt?
Medium game (eg deer) then any of the lighter calibers are more than enough out to 400ys, often farther.
Large game (eg elk) then lean towards the bigger/faster calibers starting with 6.5PRC.

Undecided: A 280ai would be perfect balance here with bullet options down in the 90-100gn all the way up to heavy monos if you ever wanted one rifle to fit all options.

I have also looked into the .25-06 some. The lack of factory rifles with adequate twist is an issue.

Not really. The 10 twist rifles are common and will shoot up to 120gn bullets fine, there really isnt a lot of bullet options above 120gn where the faster twist rates are needed and you would still need a custom longer throat to use the 257 heavies optimally. A 100 or 110gn monolithic out of the 25-06 would really fly fast and work just as well as its heavier 117-120gn slower counterpart.

A note about handloading: to really take advantage of any calibers potential you need to get into handloading for it. Otherwise your limited to factory selections plus supply chain issues, and thats if the one selection you find shoots well in your rifle.