Help choosing ideal chambering/rifle to shoot lead free projectiles.

[PLhunter]

As someone who built a fast twist 25-06 several years ago I can’t recommend it unless you have nostalgia for the cartridge. It’s a fine cartridge but factory offerings are anemic to say the least and doesn’t compete with newer short action chamberings with significantly longer barrel life and efficiency. If you handload the 25-06 can be a screamer but you’ll spend a lot of time trimming cases. My 1:8 twist shoots 121 grain hammer hunters at over 3200 fps out of a 26 inch tube. These bullets have a pretty low real world bc but are very effective 450 and in.

A 6.5 prc can beat that velocity substantially with about the same powder with better BC. Factory 6.5 creedmoor matches factory 25-06 velocities at the same grain weight. A 6 creed is what I’d go for were I in your shoes with with information you’ve given. It’s a more efficient and modern .243. I say that as someone who owns a couple .243’s.

 

[geenhead93]

As someone who built a fast twist 25-06 several years ago I can’t recommend it unless you have nostalgia for the cartridge. It’s a fine cartridge but factory offerings are anemic to say the least and doesn’t compete with newer short action chamberings with significantly longer barrel life and efficiency. If you handload the 25-06 can be a screamer but you’ll spend a lot of time trimming cases. My 1:8 twist shoots 121 grain hammer hunters at over 3200 fps out of a 26 inch tube. These bullets have a pretty low real world bc but are very effective 450 and in.

A 6.5 prc can beat that velocity substantially with about the same powder with better BC. Factory 6.5 creedmoor matches factory 25-06 velocities at the same grain weight. A 6 creed is what I’d go for were I in your shoes with with information you’ve given. It’s a more efficient and modern .243. I say that as someone who owns a couple .243’s.

Thanks for the response. This confirms the route I've all but decided to take which is to buy a 1:8 twist .243, invest time and money into reloading and likely rebarrel to 6mm Creed down the line if/when I burn out the barrel.

Also, how have the hammer hunters performed for you terminally? I intend to use the DRT terminal shock bullet but am curious how they have worked for you.

 

[PLhunter]

Excellent terminal performance. I’ve watched quite a few animals taken with them and haven’t witnessed a loss or failure. The trauma caused has been more than adequate. They are extremely easy to load for. I have a 6.5 creedmoor load with the 124’s that shoots under 3/4 moa in every rifle I’ve tried it in. I’ve moved on to the badlands though. There are plenty of rifles already chambered in 6 creed if you wanted to skip that step but nothing wrong with a .243.

 

[geenhead93]

Excellent terminal performance. I’ve watched quite a few animals taken with them and haven’t witnessed a loss or failure. The trauma caused has been more than adequate. They are extremely easy to load for. I have a 6.5 creedmoor load with the 124’s that shoots under 3/4 moa in every rifle I’ve tried it in. I’ve moved on to the badlands though. There are plenty of rifles already chambered in 6 creed if you wanted to skip that step but nothing wrong with a .243.

That's great to hear. I was hoping to go with a Tikka or something of similar price/weight/quality if possible and haven't found many options that fit that criteria in 6cm unless I'm missing something which is entirely possible. The savages and the Ruger american are the only two I see that come close and I am not thrilled with the savage I have now and have heard mixed reviews on he Ruger american line.

 

[180ls1]

Not a fan of the 223 stuff for big game but I would also second larger when shoting copper is probably the way to go.

Lead free; Have used a .270 and 6.5 prc quite bit on big game. They work very well with Hammers and traditional CX/LRX/TTSX bullets.

Brownings are worth a hard look here. Mine is a 1/7 twist (saami is 1/8) for 6.5 prc. My 300 prc is an 1/8 twist (saami is 1/9). Those fast twists are great for copper and a lot of the bad rap copper gets are because of marginal stability from slow barrels.

 

[geenhead93]

For what it's worth to anyone following this thread I pulled the trigger (no pun intended) on a Tikka Superlite .243win 1:8 twist. I went this route due to low recoil, the option to shoot DRT Terminal Shock projectiles and the high velocity to drive traditional factory copper offerings in the event that component availability forces me to shoot them. Thank you all for all your input.

 

[cjdewese]

For what it's worth to anyone following this thread I pulled the trigger (no pun intended) on a Tikka Superlite 1:8 twist. I went this route due to low recoil, the option to shoot DRT Terminal Shock projectiles and the high velocity to drive traditional factory copper offerings in the event that component availability forces me to shoot them. Thank you all for all your input.

243?

 

[geenhead93]

243?

Yes, wow my mistake .243win. Somehow neglected to include that important piece of info. Sorry about that.

 

[WI-Carcosa]

DRT Technology Terminal Shock.

79gr .224
95gr .243
135gr .264


Loaded ammo in 223, 243, 6.5cm. Those are the best performing lead free bullets right now.

Form, any plans to test the 95g in the 6UM? Very curious how that would go.

 

[Formidilosus]

Form, any plans to test the 95g in the 6UM? Very curious how that would go.

Not really, but certainly could.

 

[hibernation]

Anyone hunt with the DRT 223 rounds yet? I'd be really interested in that as an option for deer and antelope, might have to get a box and see how it shoots first.

 

[WI-Carcosa]

Recently Picked up the DRT for .223, 6.5x55 SE, and 300 WSM. Will report back this fall on whitetail results.

 

[Doodle]

I’ve done a great deal of thinking on this subject and have landed on a few particulars that will shape my next build.

1) A very fast twist barrel for heavy for caliber bullets - since copper bullets don’t have much of a bc, you have to keep them on the heavier side to recoupe some down range performance.

2) More horsepower. Since long copper bullets eat up powder space, we need to look at larger powder volumes to keep speeds up. Since mono’s really need speed to shine, this seems like a necessity. Similarly, choosing an action/cartridge combo that will allow you to seat further out would be a consideration.

For me, that leads me to a magnum 6mm or a magnum 257. A 100 6mm grain mono leaving the barrel at 3400+ should get a guy out to 600 or so without bleeding off too much speed, depending on bullet. Burnt barrels be damned, it’s a hunting rifle.

 

[Jason Snyder]

A 124 grain Hammer Hunter over 44 grains of H4350 is hitting 2980 FPS in a 22” barrel in my 6.5 CM. Hornady Ballistic Calculator shows 1900 FPS at 600 yards, which is still 100 FPS over minimum expansion velocity.

 

[nobody]

I’ve done a great deal of thinking on this subject and have landed on a few particulars that will shape my next build.

1) A very fast twist barrel for heavy for caliber bullets - since copper bullets don’t have much of a bc, you have to keep them on the heavier side to recoupe some down range performance.

2) More horsepower. Since long copper bullets eat up powder space, we need to look at larger powder volumes to keep speeds up. Since mono’s really need speed to shine, this seems like a necessity. Similarly, choosing an action/cartridge combo that will allow you to seat further out would be a consideration.

For me, that leads me to a magnum 6mm or a magnum 257. A 100 6mm grain mono leaving the barrel at 3400+ should get a guy out to 600 or so without bleeding off too much speed, depending on bullet. Burnt barrels be damned, it’s a hunting rifle.

I hate copper bullets, and would never hunt with them unless forced to. But with that said, I think you’re onto something with your line of thinking. I would 10000% be shooting something like a 6UM if I was forced to shoot monos. A 95 grain Barnes LRX moving at 3400-ish would make me feel better about being ballistically strangled by using monos, and a hot rod 6 is the way to do that.

I think if a guy absolutely has to use monos, the best bet is to push them harder and faster. And doing so will most likely require handloading a wildcat of some variety or some type of extreme specialty projectile (a-la Hammer Hunters or something), which most average guys won’t do.

 

[Doodle]

I hate copper bullets, and would never hunt with them unless forced to. But with that said, I think you’re onto something with your line of thinking. I would 10000% be shooting something like a 6UM if I was forced to shoot monos. A 95 grain Barnes LRX moving at 3400-ish would make me feel better about being ballistically strangled by using monos, and a hot rod 6 is the way to do that.

I think if a guy absolutely has to use monos, the best bet is to push them harder and faster. And doing so will most likely require handloading a wildcat of some variety or some type of extreme specialty projectile (a-la Hammer Hunters or something), which most average guys won’t do.

Oh for sure. We’re definitely in custom barrel and wildcat territory. Quite a niche rifle build.

 

[cjdewese]

For what it's worth to anyone following this thread I pulled the trigger (no pun intended) on a Tikka Superlite .243win 1:8 twist. I went this route due to low recoil, the option to shoot DRT Terminal Shock projectiles and the high velocity to drive traditional factory copper offerings in the event that component availability forces me to shoot them. Thank you all for all your input.

Exactly what I ended up getting as well, picking mine up on Saturday. Have you been able to shoot yours yet and if so any factory loads that you seem to be preferring so far?

 

[geenhead93]

Exactly what I ended up getting as well, picking mine up on Saturday. Have you been able to shoot yours yet and if so any factory loads that you seem to be preferring so far?

Right on, I haven't gotten to shoot mine yet. Mounting up an SWFA 3-9x in some Sportsmatch rings today and shooting on Saturday so if everything goes to plan I'll update here. Still collecting components to load the 95gr Terminal Shock from DRT so I'll be breaking it in with factory stuff for now.

 

[cjdewese]

Here is mine with a 3x15 on it.

 

[JBradley500]

A 124 grain Hammer Hunter over 44 grains of H4350 is hitting 2980 FPS in a 22” barrel in my 6.5 CM. Hornady Ballistic Calculator shows 1900 FPS at 600 yards, which is still 100 FPS over minimum expansion velocity.

I'll admit I've not used those bullets, but what I have read is their BC is likely inflated enough that you may easily be at 1900fps at 500 yards not 600 using your muzzle velocity. Youd really wanna do your own validation before trusting that information. Just an FYI.