Heel Blisters- Need advice

[JStol5]

Anyone try

Scarpa Zodiac Plus GTX?​

Giving these a hard look to replace my Zamberlans with.

 

[Walkstoomuch]

Anyone try

Scarpa Zodiac Plus GTX?​

Giving these a hard look to replace my Zamberlans with.

I’ve run these for the past three seasons and they were great except for durability. I went through two sets in three seasons

I switched to schnees timberlines this year. Similar flex = quiet creeping ability, also similar fit throughout. I switched because I wanted a taller boot to keep junk out, I was always collecting needles and twigs in my boots and don’t like wearing gaiters unless it’s wet or snowy. Also liked the idea of being able to rebuild them and get several seasons of use

 

[TBossHSauce]

ArmaSkin sock liners. I had crippling blisters in Kodiak on a deer hunt and had to just grin and bear it. Then went to ArmaSkin and never looked back.

www.armaskin.com

Here's a video explaining how they work...I've watched it 138 times now and pretty sure there's a sock in there somewhere. But you get the point.

Honestly the do work wonders!

 

[JeffRaines]

This is going to be a lengthy post, I hope it helps you.

Here is the list of boots I’ve owned for hunting, backpacking, and hiking the last four years in Colorado.

Scarpa Kinesis GTX
Zamberlan 1030 Sella
Crispi Hunter
Lowa Tibet LL
Scarpa Kuiu Rebel K 8

This is just a list of the ones I’ve owned and used. There have been around a dozen other pairs from various brands that I wore in my home and returned.

In the last three years I have:
-had my foot professionally measured and done it myself as well.
-worn dozens of combinations of socks to include wool socks, synthetic socks, silk liners, wool liners, toe socks (injinji), thin, thick, and no socks.
-used duct tape, athletic tape, leukotape, moleskin, and Compeed (amazing stuff).
-tried gobs of off-the-shelf insoles to include the ones you bake and mold to your foot at home.

I have never had issues with blisters until around 5 years ago. I have always had weak ankles and learned over twenty year ago as a college student and backpacking guide to mitigate that using quality-built, stable, supportive footwear.

I have discovered that feet change as we age and issues that were minor almost always develop into more severe issues over time unless corrected via strengthening, orthotics, or surgery. Just one example, high arches, strong but overused calves/Achilles, poorly balanced foot; this combo sometimes results in boney protrusions on the heel as haglunds Deformity (back of heel) or heel spurs (bottom of heel).

My results from all of this obscene amount of research, purchasing, and testing is that: stiff-ish boots + uphill + under load + heat/moisture + untrained feet = heel blisters.

Solutions? In my case, none are very simple. You can remove a variable or two from the arithmetic above and not develop blisters. But my experience is that at some point in mountain hunting, the uphill/under load/heat/moisture portion of the equation is non-negotiable. That leaves only two real ways to mitigate this issue. Footwear and training.

I firmly believe that the reason I didn’t get blisters all those years ago was that I was always on my feet. In a military academy, we were always wearing shitty footwear, walking somewhere. Standing on bleachers in uniform at football games, marching to meals, running up and down a hill in crappy boots, running to class in leather low quarters, etc etc. Then in summer, I’d pop down to New Mexico in some heavy Asolo boot that was like a Cadillac compared to my combat boots and walk for miles and miles under load. Not. One. Blister. My feet were trained and conditioned.

Fast forward to now. I sit at my job. I sit around watching my kids. I sit at the brewery and I sit on my mountain bike and sit on the chair lift. Every pair of shoes I wear is comfy as hell. I bought them that way! My feet aren’t conditioned.

I just returned from a few days backpacking in the Never Summer Wilderness. I wore the stiff Scarpa Kuiu boots mentioned above as a shakedown for this September. They fit great and have some many nice features. My heels were pretty wrecked after 4500 uphill feet the first two days. The boots fit, I wore great socks and my insole is good for my foot shape and I didn’t even sweat too bad. But…my feet aren’t conditioned.

It does NOT matter how good your boots fit. If there is any friction—and there WILL be at least some friction going uphill under load in stiff soled boots, I don’t care what anyone says—and you have been wearing flip flops all summer, your heels will react to that friction. Full stop.

All of that to say this. Mitigate all the variables you can. Be relentless about fit. About moisture management and about quality. But understand what many here have finally started concluding, you may not need boots with a medium to firm stiffness in the sole. They are heavier, generally slow to break in, and your feet aren’t conditioned to walk in them because most of us don’t wear them enough. Then we set off hunting in them because ”they fit great.” Once you have removed the variables of fit and foot structure, understand that you may still develop blisters. You can only mitigate that through less stiff, more flexible shoes, or training your feet to deal with the kind of shoe you never wear.

This fall I plan on a new approach. Comfort and speed before the kill (like a Hoka Kaha or Altra Olympus Mid and a light ankle brace) and a pair of ”pack out boots” in the truck waiting for me after the first load.

I hope all that helped. Truly. This process kind of sucks.

If you take nothing away from this thread - please take this guys advice.

I’ve been on the boot hunt for a long time, and this info would’ve saved me a ton of money and time had I known this a couple years ago.

The only thing I’d add in is this - boot fit(and gait) varies greatly between walking on flat land and in the hills. If you get a pair of boots that fit “good” and you’ve “broken them in” by doing a bunch of flat miles, chances are when you really hit the hills in them you’re gonna find that you get blisters and hot spots. It’s not because they’re not broken in, it’s because your feet and gait aren’t adjusted to the boots in the hills.

 

[JStol5]

I’ve run these for the past three seasons and they were great except for durability. I went through two sets in three seasons

I switched to schnees timberlines this year. Similar flex = quiet creeping ability, also similar fit throughout. I switched because I wanted a taller boot to keep junk out, I was always collecting needles and twigs in my boots and don’t like wearing gaiters unless it’s wet or snowy. Also liked the idea of being able to rebuild them and get several seasons of use

Did you size up for the zodiac?

 

[The Minimalist Hunter]

Try adding some wool felt on the heel area. It has helped me in certain scenarios.

 

[Walkstoomuch]

Did you size up for the zodiac?

I wore a 12.5 in the scarpas and a 13 in the schnees. Length and width feel very similar to me but need to crank the laces on the schnees as they have more available volume over the foot/around ankle

 

[JStol5]

Little update- so I originally got these boots a 1/2 size down based on my foot measurement and GoHunt's sizing process. They felt great all around with the exception of some heel blisters.

Went back to REI and the guy was trying to get me to size up because I had slight bruises on a couple toenails after a backpacking trip. I resisted that because I felt going up would worsen the heel slip issue. I left with some insoles and a good lacing technique to hold my heel down.

While I feel like I solved the heel problem, my toe problem is now worse (more crowded). With the new insole, it takes up considerably more volume in the boot than the stock Zamberlan one.

I'm planning on going back to the stock insole with engo patches and heel lock lacing. If that doesn't work, I'm going to move on to a different boot. Probably a Scarpa Zodiac Plus GTX or La Sportiva Trango TRK GTX. I am extremely hesitant to buy boots somewhere I can't return them.

Am I crazy for not going up half a size (the REI guy's suggestion) considering the heel slip issues? Thanks.

 

[Deadfall]

Uhhhhh........just gotta say this is fantastic...

 

[beignet]

Am I crazy for not going up half a size (the REI guy's suggestion) considering the heel slip issues? Thanks.

My experience in dealing with stiff boots and an REI guy is that they might not walk off trail and deal with terrain much. REI guy was trying to convince me to go full size up on some Lowa Tibets last year “to fit thicker socks.”
I compromised at a half size up and they destroyed my feet, thick socks and all.

 

[JStol5]

My experience in dealing with stiff boots and an REI guy is that they might not walk off trail and deal with terrain much. REI guy was trying to convince me to go full size up on some Lowa Tibets last year “to fit thicker socks.”
I compromised at a half size up and they destroyed my feet, thick socks and all.

Yikes. Trying to avoid that.

 

[Stikbrandon]

How many miles did you put in them before you went on your long trail hike ?


If you have any after market Insole in it take them out, fill you bath tub up with hot water and stand in it for a few mins on a day off or when you got out side chores to do.

Wear them all day while you are out side make sure they are super tight when you do this.

 

[JeffRaines]

Little update- so I originally got these boots a 1/2 size down based on my foot measurement and GoHunt's sizing process. They felt great all around with the exception of some heel blisters.

Went back to REI and the guy was trying to get me to size up because I had slight bruises on a couple toenails after a backpacking trip. I resisted that because I felt going up would worsen the heel slip issue. I left with some insoles and a good lacing technique to hold my heel down.

While I feel like I solved the heel problem, my toe problem is now worse (more crowded). With the new insole, it takes up considerably more volume in the boot than the stock Zamberlan one.

I'm planning on going back to the stock insole with engo patches and heel lock lacing. If that doesn't work, I'm going to move on to a different boot. Probably a Scarpa Zodiac Plus GTX or La Sportiva Trango TRK GTX. I am extremely hesitant to buy boots somewhere I can't return them.

Am I crazy for not going up half a size (the REI guy's suggestion) considering the heel slip issues? Thanks.

The. Heel. Needs. To. Slip.

I get it - its counterintuitive. The boots gotta be tight or else it'll slip and cause blisters... right???

Wrong. Cranking down on the laces is only exacerbating the issue.

At one time I was in the same position. Laces cranked. Damn blisters! Its my haglunds! Boots just don't work for me! One day when I was comparing boots, I put my Salomons on(that don't give me blisters) and realized they slip. Its almost imperceptible... its such a light sensation. Even going uphill, there's not a lot of friction. I realized the trail runners I use do the same thing. I realized the work boots do the same thing. The sneakers do the same thing. That coupled with learning how to walk in the damn things - I never wore anything stiff before. If you've never worn a stiff boot and go straight from sneakers/trail runners/light hikers you gotta know you can't walk in them the same way. They don't flex like that, your foot will give before the boot does, and you get major friction.

Another personal anecdote regarding boot sizing... two years ago I bought a pair of Schnees Beartooths on special. I was shocked to find that there was so much damn room in that boot. I tossed them to the back and kept forgetting to send them back... I eventually noticed but I wasn't about to request a return for a boot I had sitting for a year in my closet. I decided I was gonna give them a shot, even though everything about the interior space in that boot screamed blisters!!! I mean, its the roomiest boot I've put on my foot! Imagine how shocked I was when not only did it not give me any issues whatsoever, its one of the most comfortable boots I own.

With all that said, I'd personally go up a half size considering your bruised toenails - that's a clear indicator that your boot is too small. Also, a boot being too small can cause blisters! Give the looser lacing a shot, and slow down/shorten your gait.

 

[JStol5]

Went by the REI tonight and tried some Scarpa Zodiac Plus GTX. I have never felt this much comfort straight out of the box from any shoe/boot I’ve ever tried. They feel perfect. Brought them home to do some test hikes. They’re more flexible and lighter than the zamberlans. I think they can be re-soled too. I definitely see the pros of a less stiff boot now. If these can support me with a heavy pack well, the zamberlans are going back to the store.

 

[Grillnugz]

Try on boots from every brand, good boots that fit correctly won't give you blisters or require breaking in. For me zamberlans we're what worked. I've gone the breaking in route in the past and it never got better