Heavy Bolt lift on Tikka 6.5

[ElPollo]

I agree that the OPs’s problem is likely related to an issue with the ammo. I haven’t cleaned a centerfire rifle bore in six years and have one suppressor with more than 2500 rounds through it that has never been cleaned. Never seen a problem chambering ammo or accuracy in a factory barrel. Only once in a custom barrel that had a tight chamber, but that was not an intermittent problem. It did it all the time with several factory loads, but some worked fine. If you’re seeing this issue with the same ammo that previously worked fine, I’d try a different lot of the same ammo.

I cannot imagine cleaning a suppressor every 100 rounds. Man, OCD is a thing and it’s a fun-killer. If I had to do that, I’d take up a different hobby.

 

[Jake Larsen]

In back to back lot numbers of Hornday 6.5cm ELD-M’s match we had a difference of almost 200 fps higher MV, with the resulting issues one would expect from nearly 6.5 PRC muzzle velocities.

I’m sure some would have said it was the dreaded “donut”.

You think it’s different lots of powder causing the MV changes? Hard to imagine Hornady would tweak the load in their factory ammo without making an announcement.

I’ve never been a factory ammo shooter, but I guess you’d need to make sure everything you’re using is from the same lot, and re-check zero/MV when switching to a new lot.


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[nephewjephew]

To get back on topic a bit. I don't know if it is a "carbon ring" or not, it was just the first suggestion.

You said that you switched boxes, was it the same lot # of ammo?

I have seen lots vary by almost 200fps.

Looked though some notes and there's 356 rds on the gun through 3 different lots 40, 100, 216 rounds (all 147 eldm) in that order. Started a fresh box when the issue started and grabbed a different box that was previously shot (same lot). 16 rds total that day with that gun and maybe 6 rounds with a problem. My first thought was ammo, so I will pick up new box to see if its repeatable. If it continues with new ammo then maybe there's a deeper problem.

I like shooting guns I don't enjoy cleaning guns, I'm lazy in that regard. And I haven't had a problem with not cleaning for years now. I don't understand the apprehension from some people that are so opposed to ideas or process that are so easy to see if they work or not, some of these things are really easy to test yourself.

 

[jamesmc8]

Lots of Powder, even in the extreme line can vary in velocity too. Varget is one of the more stable powders. However when I switched to a new lot with some 6 ARC loads I lost 60 fps. Nothing else was changed and shot over a Garmin.

 

[Formidilosus]

You think it’s different lots of powder causing the MV changes? Hard to imagine Hornady would tweak the load in their factory ammo without making an announcement.

Yes. They absolutely use different powders between lots. Since 2020 or so companies have had to use whatever powder they can get their hands on.

I’ve never been a factory ammo shooter, but I guess you’d need to make sure everything you’re using is from the same lot, and re-check zero/MV when switching to a new lot.

This is exactly what one has to do. Lot to lot variation is a thing, and often enough it is not a small difference.

Having said that, there are some ammo brands/liens that are stable lot to lot- Federal Gold Medal Match for instance.

 

[Formidilosus]

Looked though some notes and there's 356 rds on the gun through 3 different lots 40, 100, 216 rounds (all 147 eldm) in that order. Started a fresh box when the issue started and grabbed a different box that was previously shot (same lot). 16 rds total that day with that gun and maybe 6 rounds with a problem. My first thought was ammo, so I will pick up new box to see if its repeatable. If it continues with new ammo then maybe there's a deeper problem.

It is low odds that it is from not cleaning, it could be debris in the chamber, but odds are it’s not. While for most not cleaning may be a novel idea, there are places that fire pallets of ammo a week, that do not clean at all, without issue.

The highest probability is that you have a lot, or lots that are on the hotter side of average.

I don't understand the apprehension from some people that are so opposed to ideas or process that are so easy to see if they work or not, some of these things are really easy to test yourself.

Because experimenting would require shooting and very few people do that. Doing so would remove the myth and lore surrounding it all.

 

[SDHNTR]

Uggh, again?

Cleaners vs non cleaners
.223 vs .30 cal guys
Monos vs fragmenting lead
Form posse vs everyone with opposing views

There’s a time and a place for all of it. There are no absolutes in the field. There’s value in both sides of an argument. The attitude of I’m always right and you’re wrong is off putting and this pace is beginning to circle the drain because of it. It gets old.

Can’t we just go hunting? Where are the hunting stories? Hunting is interesting and fun, arguing over carbon build up is not.

 

[Formidilosus]

Uggh, again?

Cleaners vs non cleaners
.223 vs .30 cal guys
Monos vs fragmenting lead
Form posse vs everyone with opposing views

There’s a time and a place for all of it. There are no absolutes in the field. There’s value in both sides of an argument. The attitude of I’m always right and you’re wrong is off putting and this pace is beginning to circle the drain because of it. It gets old.

Can’t we just go hunting? Where are the hunting stories? Hunting is interesting and fun, arguing over carbon build up is not.

You know that you don’t have to click on technical threads.

The story forum is here-

Rokslide Live Hunt/Hunting Stories

Share your live hunts and hunting stories here.

rokslide.com

 

[nephewjephew]

It is low odds that it is from not cleaning, it could be debris in the chamber, but odds are it’s not. While for most not cleaning may be a novel idea, there are places that fire pallets of ammo a week, that do not clean at all, without issue.

The highest probability is that you have a lot, or lots that are on the hotter side of average.

That is my gut reaction too. I have shot 200 rounds of that lot with no issue and have 300 of that lot left. Can there be that much variance within a lot?

 

[Formidilosus]

That is my gut reaction too. I have shot 200 rounds of that lot with no issue and have 300 of that lot left. Can there be that much variance within a lot?

Generally no. But, that lot could be right on the edge, and then yes- some debris or fouling could cause issues. If that’s the case, scraping the chamber might reduce pressure issues for a bit, but they’ll come back.

 

[justin davis]

I’d venture to guess that it is the ammo. Something different with the lot.

 

[5811]

That is my gut reaction too. I have shot 200 rounds of that lot with no issue and have 300 of that lot left. Can there be that much variance within a lot?

I bought some early production hornady 7mm prc that would give me a stiff bolt lift intermittently. They have since switched powders and it's a non issue, so my experience is the reverse of yours.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Uggh, again?

Cleaners vs non cleaners
.223 vs .30 cal guys
Monos vs fragmenting lead
Form posse vs everyone with opposing views

There’s a time and a place for all of it. There are no absolutes in the field. There’s value in both sides of an argument. The attitude of I’m always right and you’re wrong is off putting and this pace is beginning to circle the drain because of it. It gets old.

Can’t we just go hunting? Where are the hunting stories? Hunting is interesting and fun, arguing over carbon build up is not.

This is a thread trying to help someone resolve an issue. Simply move onto the next thread instead of taking time out of your day to frustrate yourself.

Only you have the power to not click on it, get upset, and then take time to type and whine.

 

[TaperPin]

It is low odds that it is from not cleaning, it could be debris in the chamber, but odds are it’s not.

I do like how you encourage others to be optimistic, hopeful, positive thinkers - the power of positive thought is a powerful thing. I agree, it’s better to be lucky than good.

Just hope your dirty chamber wont jam up on a hunt.

Manifest malfunctions to happen only after the season is over.

Hope for faulty ammo.

Believe if dozens of guns can shoot pallets of ammo, that your gun is cosmically linked and will also shoot a pallet.

It’s not risking an entire year’s preparation, time/money for the hunt if the basketball team you’re betting on always wins their games.

God forbid it does turn out to be a dirty chamber - it would take an entire 10 minutes out of the day to clean with a good carbon remover like c4. That’s time you’ll never get back.

 

[Ohiohuntr]

In back to back lot numbers of Hornday 6.5cm ELD-M’s match we had a difference of almost 200 fps higher MV, with the resulting issues one would expect from nearly 6.5 PRC muzzle velocities.

I’m sure some would have said it was the dreaded “donut”.

I experienced the same thing with my 7prc, tried to use some of the hornady brass to reload with but the primer pockets are trashed. Wasn’t quite 200fps but definitely a large swing

 

[Formidilosus]

God forbid it does turn out to be a dirty chamber - it would take an entire 10 minutes out of the day to clean with a good carbon remover like c4. That’s time you’ll never get back.

While logical and critical thinking hasn’t been shown to be your forte, for the benefit of others that may think or want to think logically and critically:

A properly cut in spec chamber, with proper in spec ammo, in a factory Tikka 6.5cm is not causing extremely hard bolt lift due a “carbon ring”. Even if cleaning the chamber removes the issue for the OP, it does not solve the actual underlying issue. It’s just masking it and it will happen again.
Logical and Cristal problem solving would say to find the actual root cause that of the disease and cure that, not just cure the symptoms and let the disease continue.


If my truck’s motor oil needed to be replaced every 100 miles, I wouldn’t just say “oh well, you’re an idiot if you don’t change your motor oil every 100 miles”. I would find out what the problem that is causing that is, and fix that- because motors don’t fail from 100 miles without changing the oil.

Summarily, if my rifle locked up after 100 rounds suppressed, I would be finding the real reason that it is so close to the edge of not working and fix that. Because properly built rifles and ammo do not fail to function due to 100 rounds being fired. There IS a base problem there that makes the margin of error for correct functioning teetering on the edge of failure at all times. And leaving it as such and just cleaning, means that a single piece of dirt or sand, or moisture on the case will also cause failures. It’s not a functional field rifle if it is that temperamental.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I do like how you encourage others to be optimistic, hopeful, positive thinkers - the power of positive thought is a powerful thing. I agree, it’s better to be lucky than good.

Just hope your dirty chamber wont jam up on a hunt.

Manifest malfunctions to happen only after the season is over.

Hope for faulty ammo.

Believe if dozens of guns can shoot pallets of ammo, that your gun is cosmically linked and will also shoot a pallet.

It’s not risking an entire year’s preparation, time/money for the hunt if the basketball team you’re betting on always wins their games.

God forbid it does turn out to be a dirty chamber - it would take an entire 10 minutes out of the day to clean with a good carbon remover like c4. That’s time you’ll never get back.

View attachment 777829

If something has been working for you then I’d say stick to it.

If something else has been working for somebody else then I’d say stop obsessing over the differing observation. Especially if you are unwilling to try it for yourself.

 

[Formidilosus]

I experienced the same thing with my 7prc, tried to use some of the hornady brass to reload with but the primer pockets are trashed. Wasn’t quite 200fps but definitely a large swing

I’ve got 7 PRC Hornady ammo with 160gr CX that has to be nearly beat open on 10-20’ish percent of rounds. I also have a lot of 180gr ELD-M that is quite hot, and the brass probably shouldn’t be reloaded.

 

[SDHNTR]

You know that you don’t have to click on technical threads.

The story forum is here-

Rokslide Live Hunt/Hunting Stories

Share your live hunts and hunting stories here.

rokslide.com

I actually do enjoy technical conversations. I just enjoy them more when adults respect other’s experiences without constantly challenging them for the sake of always being right.

 

[TaperPin]

If my truck’s motor oil needed to be replaced every 100 miles, I wouldn’t just say “oh well, you’re an idiot if you don’t change your motor oil every 100 miles”. I would find out what the problem that is causing that is, and fix that- because motors don’t fail from 100 miles without changing the oil.

It appears you are saying the goal should be never changing a vehicles oil?!?

Unfortunately in the short term we all have to shoot with the chamber we have, not the chamber we wish we had. I can see how it would make sense for a non cleaner to send the rifle to a gunsmith and have a looser reamer run in to widen the neck and/or throat. And you thought we would never agree on anything. Lol