Has Anyone "Downgraded" Their Optics?

[Mt Al]

Great thread!! I've learned quite a bit, wondered the same thing. Related: two times in the last three years I've met guys with absolute beater boats, one in Texas, one in Montana. Old give-away hulls with decent rebuilt motors. Both were expert fishermen, both laughed at the $50-$100K boats and said "here's the secret, the fish can't tell how expensive your boat is". However, clearly, deer, elk, sheep and goats can tell what optics we're using and our hero shots need to have the top of the line glass for us to be legit back country studs.

The only thing I'll add: doing comparisons in low light, side by side, is an eye opener, especially at range. In-store comparisons with non-natural light wave lengths isn't worthless, but doesn't come close to being outside early, mid and late day.

 

[MtnMuley]

I personally couldn't imagine ever downgrading any of my alpha glass. Getting rid of a pair that doesn't get used is one thing, but to replace with lesser quality to me is like passing a 380" bull to kill a 320" just because he snuck in for a piece.

 

[Burnt Reynolds]

I sold my Swarovski slc 10x42's in favor of some Leica trinivoid 8x42's. Half the price and do everything just as well and are lighter, more compact and have wider field of view. Couldn't be happier.

 

[hunt1up]

Well since I started the this thread I’ve since sold the Swaro ELs and have been using the Nikon HGs routinely in the field. I’m deer hunting, not mountain hunting, but I’ve been able to use them at first ands last light, and also at some good distances. I must say that I’m still very satisfied with these things. I’ve noticed no disadvantage in practical hunting conditions.

I’m still loving the size and weight savings the HGs provide.

 

[marshland_max]

I found myself in a similar situation and I can tell you I'm still using my heavy a** chit basic 8x32 gold rings and can see plenty good. Is the glass great? Not even close, but they work. I myself personally am still on the hunt for a fantastic deal on a pair of compact Leica's.

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[Newtosavage]

BTW, for anyone interested in affordable, excellent glass...

Lancaster Archery Supply has - as of yesterday - Three Alpen Teton HD 10x42's left in their inventory, for $299 ea.

I got my pair yesterday and they are top notch glass. Every bit as good as Viper HD's or Monarch 7's IMO, and they handle great.

They will be my new truck bin for sure.

 

[wannakillabigbull]

BTW, for anyone interested in affordable, excellent glass...

Lancaster Archery Supply has - as of yesterday - Three Alpen Teton HD 10x42's left in their inventory, for $299 ea.

I got my pair yesterday and they are top notch glass. Every bit as good as Viper HD's or Monarch 7's IMO, and they handle great.

They will be my new truck bin for sure.

Everyone should be aware that Alpen went out of business.

Alpen Optics Closes Doors After 22 Years of Business - ThinkingAfield.org

I would assume that means no warranty if you break them, so that's relevant info to know. i've heard good things about Alpen so it sucks to see them go under.

 

[mcseal2]

The 10x42 Leica Geovid HD-B binos I have with the rangefinder are the best money I have ever spend on hunting gear. The second best is probably the 15x56 Swaro binos I run on the tripod. When I can't evaluate an animal at last light I never wonder if I could have with better glass, I just know it's way to dark to shoot despite it being legal shooting hours. That alone is worth the cost to me. Glass, especially binos, is the last place I'll ever look to save money for hunting. I saved money and built points for a few years to afford them when vacation time wasn't there, and now I just want more chances to use them.

I did the moose drop camp this year. If you want PM me and I might be able to give you some tips or loan you some gear to help make the trip happen without selling glass you will wish you had back.

 

[mcseal2]

Sorry, didn't read all the old posts. Looks like the decision has been made. My offer on gear or tips stands though.

 

[hunt1up]

Sorry, didn't read all the old posts. Looks like the decision has been made. My offer on gear or tips stands though.

Well the decision has sort of been made. I have some Leica Trinovid 10x42s to try as well. But the ELs are gone.

I appreciate your offer. I'll surely hit you up for some moose knowledge!

 

[daddie63]

Be interested to hear your thoughts between the different binos.

 

[hunt1up]

Sorry, didn't read all the old posts. Looks like the decision has been made. My offer on gear or tips stands though.

Tried PMing you, inbox is full.

 

[mcseal2]

Got it cleared out, thanks.

 

[MTElkChaser]

Nikon HD glass is good stuff. I’m sure you’ll be happy with them and probably have a few hundred in your pocket as a result of the Swaro EL sale.

I’m not going to lie - I still regret selling a pair of Swarovski EL 8.5’s over 4 years ago. I still have a pair of Swaro 15x56 SLC’s and a pair of 8x30 CL’s - but I’d buy another pair of EL’s if I found a smoking deal for sure! Good luck this season!

 

[ssssnake529]

I moved from Swarovski and Leica and now use Kowa Prominars.

I don't feel like I lost any performance at all.

 

[dirtytough]

I’m surprised so many people would actually downgrade their optics. It’s one thing if a less expensive pair is on par with a more expensive pair. But to actually downgrade seems crazy. I’ve always figured a hunter should put more money into his optics then anything else. Because if you can’t see the game then you can’t kill it.

I had an elk tag a few years ago. Right at dark my buddy spots a bull and says he figures it’s a shooter from what he could tell. I looked it over and could tell it was a bull we had already seen. A 350” 5x6. It had great tine length but was a young bull with no mass so I didn’t want to shoot it. If I didn’t have great glass then I probably would have killed it based on what he said since I trust his judgement. That time though his glass wasn’t good enough to tell it was a bull we had previously looked over.

The hunt I killed my biggest buck on I packed in 6 miles with 10x32’s, 15x56’s, and 20-60x80 spotter. I will take the weight penalty to make sure I’m spotting what is actually spottable.

This year I got the ATX/BTX with the 95mm objective. Packing all 3 pieces is heavy, but I spotted 80+% of the deer I saw on an early hunt with it compared to just using my binos. So for me it’s worth the weight and cost. I can’t even imagine hunting without it and am kicking myself for not getting one sooner.

Anyway good luck with the Nikons I hear they are good glass.

 

[Newtosavage]

Everyone should be aware that Alpen went out of business.

Alpen Optics Closes Doors After 22 Years of Business - ThinkingAfield.org

I would assume that means no warranty if you break them, so that's relevant info to know. i've heard good things about Alpen so it sucks to see them go under.

It does suck they went under. They had great CS and great prices on optics that outperformed anything else at their price point.

I had the chance today to compare those Teton HD's side-by-side to a pair of Vortex Viper HD's - a worthy comparison IMO. I did not see enough difference to pay the extra for the Vipers. They were too close to call.

Had I not found the Tetons, I would be very happy with the Viper HD's however and cannot understand why people would pay 2X as much for Razors.

 

[wannakillabigbull]

Had I not found the Tetons, I would be very happy with the Viper HD's however and cannot understand why people would pay 2X as much for Razors.

I’ve owned both Vipers and Razors, and for a time the Razors were worth that extra 2X. I own a pair of 10x42 Razor HDs that were from the first year they were made I believe 2012ish. Made in Japan, serial number in the hundreds. I still haven’t gotten rid of them because they’re a very nice piece of glass and haven’t yet been sent back to Vortex for any reason. Solid construction and I can glass all day with them. If you go back and do searches you’ll see some great reviews on Rokslide and pretty much everywhere else when the Razor HDs first came out.

Things have changed of course. Newer designs are on the market and people feel like Vortex’s quality and QC have gone downhill in recent years. Those old Razor HDs are still kicking, though, and hold their own pretty well. That being said I want some Swaro SLCs so bad it hurts...

 

[hunt1up]

I’m surprised so many people would actually downgrade their optics. It’s one thing if a less expensive pair is on par with a more expensive pair. But to actually downgrade seems crazy. I’ve always figured a hunter should put more money into his optics then anything else. Because if you can’t see the game then you can’t kill it.

I had an elk tag a few years ago. Right at dark my buddy spots a bull and says he figures it’s a shooter from what he could tell. I looked it over and could tell it was a bull we had already seen. A 350” 5x6. It had great tine length but was a young bull with no mass so I didn’t want to shoot it. If I didn’t have great glass then I probably would have killed it based on what he said since I trust his judgement. That time though his glass wasn’t good enough to tell it was a bull we had previously looked over.

The hunt I killed my biggest buck on I packed in 6 miles with 10x32’s, 15x56’s, and 20-60x80 spotter. I will take the weight penalty to make sure I’m spotting what is actually spottable.

This year I got the ATX/BTX with the 95mm objective. Packing all 3 pieces is heavy, but I spotted 80+% of the deer I saw on an early hunt with it compared to just using my binos. So for me it’s worth the weight and cost. I can’t even imagine hunting without it and am kicking myself for not getting one sooner.

Anyway good luck with the Nikons I hear they are good glass.

I guess it depends on your hunting style as well. Your example above is quite different from how I typically hunt. I've had SLC 15x56, a few various cheaper spotters, and they spent 355 days a year stuck on my basement shelf. Even if I still had them I'd likely never use them. Where we've elk hunted the past three seasons you could get by with a $150 pair of Bushnells as glassing is almost a waste of time. And when you get to elk hunt once a year there's not many bulls that we'd consider too small.

Will I ever own some Swaros again? Most likely, as I'm a gear addict. But if I'm being objective and honest with myself, $1000 glass will work essentially 100% of the time for any of my hunting situations. It's funny, if I told most people that I know how much my binoculars cost they'd think I'm insane, even the Nikons.

 

[AGPank]

I don’t think you will miss game with $1000 range glass vs alphas at $2k plus. $1000 glass is damn nice.

To me a downgrade would be to below $600 glass (and now a days really under $350-400). Again here most the time it’s fine. Differences may be acceptable to each user. (I’ve looked through my moms Vanguard Ed2 and they are decent glass for $300. ) and some might be:

- heavier (aluminum vs magnesium frames)
- low light performance, light transmission
- coatings (scratch resistant, easier to clean)
- build quality
- internal glare (can you glass a high ridge line with a low sun and still find animals)
- resolution might not be able to make out that legal buck/bull at 400+ yards
- eye fatigue after long hours
- image quality to find an antler on a buck whose frozen in sagebrush
- field of view, size of sweet spot, field flattener
- no internal fogging
- reliability ( not getting sent in for warranty work)
- company will be around 10, 15, 20 years. (Alpen, Brunton, Eagle Optics, Zen Ray)


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