Has Anyone "Downgraded" Their Optics?

[tdhanses]

I downgraded in optics from my EL Swarovision to Geovid HD-B. The step down was minimal but man do I love hunting with my Geovids.

Yup and really it isn’t a downgrade just buying at an opportune time, I would recommend anyone to jump on the demo deals cameralandny has on the Leica glass and sell their Swaro as a smart investing strategy to also bring back in some cash by selling the Swaro yet not giving up anything overall.

I believe the HD-R has the same optics as the HD-B just no ballistics calculator and cameralandny keeps selling these demos for around $1100.

 

[Thinkingman]

Optics are highly subjective.
Without question, Swaros are a very high quality product.
The interwebs convinced me that Vortex Razors (Gen1) were the cat's ass.
I ordered a pair and compared to my Nikon HG, I much preferred the Nikons.
I compared Leica and Swaro in a store...TO ME, the Leicas displayed an artificial brightness and a 'cold' color.
Others may disagree.
Leupold is a brand that I've never seen the excitement.
Just average glass that gets replaced every few years when it fails.
The message is....Don't let Rokslide(or Opticstalk, or ....) convince you that one brand is 'better'...Just like boots and shotguns, what fits you best?

 

[Azone]

After a week in Idaho with two guys who were running a pair of Swarovski EL's and a Pair of Leica 10x42's. I maybe saw a slight and I mean slight edge over my Leupold Mojave HD's 10x42's but not 1k to 1.5k worth of an advantage by no means. A lot of people talk up optics in my opinion just to sound like they're in the "elite" of the hunting world.
If money was no object I'm sure I would spring for the best of the best. When it comes to backcountry hunting, shelter, boots, and a comfortable pack trump glass for me.

 

[ljalberta]

I currently use SLC 10x42. I've used quite a few pairs of lower end optics prior. My primary glassing situations now is sitting behind a tripod for hours looking for bighorns. The SLCs are worth every dime to me. I looked at the ELs. To my eyes, they are the superior optic, BUT, not worth the increased price to me. The edge to edge clarity is fantastic though.

I experience no eye strain or headaches after long glassing session including at first and last light with my current SLCs. This is a substantial upgrade compared to my experience with sub $1000 binos such as Vortex Vipers, Diamondbacks, and Talons, and well as some Bushnell, Nikons, Bausch & Lomb, Leupold, and older Zeiss binos I've compared them with. My personal experience has been as the costs rises, the eye strain lessons. However, if I'm just using binos to casually glass a ridge or open area, then I've found I'm quite happy using a lesser pair. I'd guess you'd be quite happy with Nikon HG's if they're comparative to the SLCs as many think they are (albeit with a far wider FOV) in any situation. Looking forward to your comparison either way.

 

[Hatchet Jack]

If you’re using them to hand hold glass and look for elk or moose then alpha glass is probably not a necessity. If you’re tripod glassing for 6-8 hrs a day on a coues or muley hunt, you will certainly notice a difference between your mid range glass and the alpha. It’s especially apparent when looking toward the sun into the shady slopes at mid day trying to find a bedded coues buck. Or at last light. And the differences really jump out when they’re on a tripod.

Time for me is more of a limiting factor than money, so when I get out I want to be sure I make the most of those important glassing hours.

 

[codym]

After a week in Idaho with two guys who were running a pair of Swarovski EL's and a Pair of Leica 10x42's. I maybe saw a slight and I mean slight edge over my Leupold Mojave HD's 10x42's but not 1k to 1.5k worth of an advantage by no means. A lot of people talk up optics in my opinion just to sound like they're in the "elite" of the hunting world.
If money was no object I'm sure I would spring for the best of the best. When it comes to backcountry hunting, shelter, boots, and a comfortable pack trump glass for me.

Agree to disagree on this one. I had Leopold windrivers I think that were pretty decent. The eyecups fell off and they sent me a new pair of BX3 HD 10x42's. These have been the biggest pieces of crap ever. The diopter has broke, cant get these things to keep a focus and I get dizzy and headaches if I look through them after a few minutes. I now have swaro EL 12x50's and after looking through them for10 seconds they blew the Leupolds off the planet in every way. JMO.

 

[Torrey in Tahoe]

I just bought a pair of SLC's off of ebay and have been watching a lot of EL's as well. I've seen them going for $1400-$1600 in good shape. Nikons are $850 so you might not come out as well as you think. I demoed several binoculars and one thing that I came away with was that, for me, binos are not just a tool to find animals but an experience to use as well. Like a high end 1911 or gibson guitar, it's like functional art to me. I just ended up enjoying the viewing experience with the swaros over any of the others including the Nikons.

 

[hunt1up]

Well the Nikons showed up. I only had a chance to spend 5 minutes glassing down the road with the ELs and the Nikons. I couldn’t tell much of a difference freehand at 250 yards. BUT, when I first opened the Nikon box I had to do a double take and verify they were indeed 10x42. I swore they sent something smaller. The weight and overall size is substantially smaller and lighter, like a lot. The pictures might not show it but it’s quite pronounced. The eyepiece diameter is similar but the Nikon barrels are much smaller. I’ll give more opinions later. The build quality of both is very nice.

 

[bozeman]

Tag. As I just bought a pair of Leica Trinovoid HD 8x32.

 

[daddie63]

Lookin forward to your findings.

 

[307]

I wouldn't bother comparing. The Prophet's have spoken. If you agree with them, you are correct. If you don't, you're incompetent.

Nevermind that the biggest variable in comparing optics is the eyes and brains of the observers...

If you've used brand X for a long time, you're probably going to prefer the view that brand X provides. Then you can dismiss anybody who might have a different opinion as incompetent. It's a convenient circular logic.

Is there a double blind controlled trial in optics? I suspect the results would be very interesting.

 

[307]

I should add that I appreciate the folks who really go through an effort to present objective findings. I believe they are doing their best to avoid the obvious limitations of this type of comparison.

I think we could come up with a project to double blind this process, but in the end, would it really matter that much? Probably not. We use what we like and it's all probably better than we are as hunters.

 

[hunt1up]

After a little more meddling I’ve come up with a few more findings. The focus knob on the Nikons is somewhat spongy. The Swarovskis win in this regard. I’d say with confidence that both would easily get the job done, but the Swarovski are clearly smoother and more precise. It takes a slight bit of rotation to get the Nikons to start focusing. I wouldn’t call this a deal breaker, but rather a slight aggravation

The eyepiece barrel adjustment is better on the Nikons, at least to me. If there’s ever been any critique of the ELs from my perspective, it would be the eyepiece adjustment. Oftentimes when hunting I would have to look down to assure the two barrels were properly positioned when using my FHF harness. Quite often I’d pull my ELs from their harness, only to find I need to adjust the eyepieces.

Some more real world testing is in order, but I’ll say the Nikons feel like a very quality piece of glass. Ergonomically speaking they’re very different. The Nikons are SUBSTANTIALLY lighter and more impact. Both feel good in the hand though, just in a different way.

I’ll post my actual viewing results as time allows.

 

[hunt1up]

Well I decided to try a little morning deer sit before work today. I took the Nikon HGs with me. The skies were clear. In this particular spot I can see 850 yards according to my rangefinder. I could make out the farthest treeline across a cut bean field about 15 minutes before shooting light. I didn't see any deer, but I'm confident if any were that far out I could have seen them with these binos. As it approached first light I could see quite well with the Nikons. I'm not versed well enough in the terminology of a skilled optics man, but from a functional hunting standpoint they seemed to do just fine. The feel and view of the Nikons vs the EL is indeed quite different and I'm still getting used to it. The substantially smaller footprint and weight is still the biggest difference to me. I'll put them through the paces some more in the coming days.

In the meantime the ELs are in the classifieds. It didn't make me happy to post them but the wife wants a 10 year anniversary trip and this AK moose thing isn't going to be a budget hunt. Reasonable offers are welcome.

 

[Newtosavage]

I've done exactly that, a few times now.

I "worked my way up" to a pair of Swaro SLC's a few years ago, but they were absolutely mint and I was not really interested in banging them up or leaving them on the tailgate and driving off, etc. So while I thought about how to use them, I just happened to come across an older pair of Nikon LX-L's that had a view I absolutely loved. Even more than the SLC's in fact. So I eventually sold the SLC's (for a bit more than I paid) and I ran the Nikon's for several years with no regrets.

Recently, I've thought that the newer Vortex Viper HD's are really all the optic that 99.9% of us need, considering just how good they are.

I'm always on the hunt for good quality "sleeper" bin's, and last year came across an older pair of Cabelas Outfitter HD's that looked conspicuously like a pair of Opticrons I was familiar with. Turns out, they were the same bin, both made in the Light Optical Works factory in Japan, and those Cabelas bin's were just outstanding. 95% of any elite optic out there, if not more. So I used them as my truck bin for a long time, and was never left wanting for a more expensive pair.

I hang around serious birders quite a bit. Most of them have the latest and greatest alpha optics, so I get a chance to compare whatever I have hanging around my neck to their bin's on a regular basis. I'm a pretty good bargain hunter, and it's not often that I look at something one of my birding friends are using that are really all that much better than my latest "find."

If you're not a person who is really bothered by what brand or price your binoculars wear, you really don't have to pay a ton to get out of your optics what you need.

 

[Newtosavage]

Ironically, I just spent 2 hours yesterday comparing Nikon Monarch HG's, Leica Trinovid HD's, and Vortex Razors (all 10x42) side by side in the fading evening light.

My picks (in order) were Trinovid, Nikon HG and then the Razors.

I am now trying out a pair of Trinovids to see if we are compatible with one another.

 

[Newtosavage]

Optics are highly subjective.
Without question, Swaros are a very high quality product.
The interwebs convinced me that Vortex Razors (Gen1) were the cat's ass.
I ordered a pair and compared to my Nikon HG, I much preferred the Nikons.
I compared Leica and Swaro in a store...TO ME, the Leicas displayed an artificial brightness and a 'cold' color.
Others may disagree.
Leupold is a brand that I've never seen the excitement.
Just average glass that gets replaced every few years when it fails.
The message is....Don't let Rokslide(or Opticstalk, or ....) convince you that one brand is 'better'...Just like boots and shotguns, what fits you best?

That's great advice. Use what suits YOUR eyes. It will be different for everyone.

I maybe saw a slight and I mean slight edge over my Leupold Mojave HD's 10x42's but not 1k to 1.5k worth of an advantage by no means.

I had a pair of the original Mojave's for quite some time, and I loved the view they provided.

 

[Antarctica]

I've done exactly that, a few times now.

I "worked my way up" to a pair of Swaro SLC's a few years ago, but they were absolutely mint and I was not really interested in banging them up or leaving them on the tailgate and driving off, etc. So while I thought about how to use them, I just happened to come across an older pair of Nikon LX-L's that had a view I absolutely loved. Even more than the SLC's in fact. So I eventually sold the SLC's (for a bit more than I paid) and I ran the Nikon's for several years with no regrets.

Recently, I've thought that the newer Vortex Viper HD's are really all the optic that 99.9% of us need, considering just how good they are.

I'm always on the hunt for good quality "sleeper" bin's, and last year came across an older pair of Cabelas Outfitter HD's that looked conspicuously like a pair of Opticrons I was familiar with. Turns out, they were the same bin, both made in the Light Optical Works factory in Japan, and those Cabelas bin's were just outstanding. 95% of any elite optic out there, if not more. So I used them as my truck bin for a long time, and was never left wanting for a more expensive pair.

I hang around serious birders quite a bit. Most of them have the latest and greatest alpha optics, so I get a chance to compare whatever I have hanging around my neck to their bin's on a regular basis. I'm a pretty good bargain hunter, and it's not often that I look at something one of my birding friends are using that are really all that much better than my latest "find."

If you're not a person who is really bothered by what brand or price your binoculars wear, you really don't have to pay a ton to get out of your optics what you need.

Great, informative, useful post. I'm always looking for used, 'old school' equipment as I often find that, while heavier, its much more durable than more modern equipment. As optics goes (and probably guns too), I think that's especially true. Which coating technologies have improved significantly over the years, the glass catalogs are more or less the same as they were 30 years ago, and I'd be willing to bet that most of that glass is coming from schott or corning (with the exception of Nikon, which I believe makes their own). I'd also bet that 90% of the glass in modern optics is good old BK7, because its good, cheap, and readily available. I don't believe that optics changes as fast as some of us might like to think. Some of that is evidenced in the photography world where some professional lenses have remained in a given vendors catalog unchanged for 20 years.

 

[Newtosavage]

I don't believe that optics changes as fast as some of us might like to think. Some of that is evidenced in the photography world where some professional lenses have remained in a given vendors catalog unchanged for 20 years.

I think this is a very important point. I am also an avid amateur photographer and have been for about 25 years. Many of the same lenses that were used by professionals in the 80's would still hold their own today - and there is a LOT more money to be made in photography lenses than there is in binoculars and spotting scopes, so that tells me something. That in fact, the lens technology has not improved that much since the 80's.

Rather, the changes are in manufacturing, materials and design - mostly computer-aided design. So we get slimmer and lighter housings in more attractive packaging, better controls (hopefully) and things like comfy 5-position eyecups. Manufacturing has made it so that cheap Chinese bins can compete better with high-end optics. Having said that, my eyes can pick out a cheap Chinese optic from a mile away. Still not sure what it is, but my eyes just don't get along with Chinese optics. There is always something strange about the image in one way or another. That has held true for over 15 pairs of Chinese bins I've tried. You would think by now I would be smart enough to just stop wasting my time with anything made in China.

 

[Beendare]

I sold off my Leica Geo's many years ago after owning them for about 7 years. Sold them for what I paid-which is good.

I had convinced myself that since my eyesight was deteriorating that top tier optics was a waste of $$.

[I also have some big 15x Zeiss and 10x Swaros so looking for something in between]


So I bought the Vortex viper line- a 15x bino and a 8x bino. Big mistake! I was thinking I would use them as beaters...they would be good for that...but the clarity and low light performance killed me. Its like drinking a good micro brew and then going back to Keystone...or drinking a good Napa valley cab and going back to Trader Joes generic red.

I found a tweener pair of Nikon EDG's at Bob Wards on closeout for 1/2 off....and WOW...a side by side comparison with the Vipers was an eye opener. I've owned Zeiss, Leica, Swaro and checked out all of the top glass....those EDG's could be the best glass I've seen.


I'm convinced....you just can't go back to cheap glass!