Hand loaded speeds for a 30-06 and 280AI

[49ereric]

Stick with the 06 and find a bullet the barrel loves.
Sierra 150 PH shot extremely well in my brothers 06 I loaded for with 59 grains of IMR 4350. Had to be careful seating the bullet though as very compressed.
kicked like a mule.

 

[Elite]

Stick with the 06 and find a bullet the barrel loves.
Sierra 150 PH shot extremely well in my brothers 06 I loaded for with 59 grains of IMR 4350. Had to be careful seating the bullet though as very compressed.
kicked like a mule.

Any ideas on the velocity?


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[49ereric]

Any ideas on the velocity?


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Nope no chrono back then @25 years ago and still don’t need one. I know what the books claim for velocity but to many variables to know with no chrono and it doesn’t matter as I load for accuracy where ever that takes me max or min load.
cheap Savage rifle & lite weight.

 

[seand]

You can look at hodgens website to see Handloading velocities at pressure. There isn’t any magic.

The 30-06 SAAMI pressure limit is 60ksi, it can be loaded ~60fps faster than the reloading books show if you are comfortable taking it up to 65ksi in a modern bolt action. 65ksi is same as a 270win. 60fps is worth about 3 inches of barrel length in the 30-06 (or most anything else)

The 280 rem SAAMI limit is 60ksi similar to the 30-06 due to the weaker rifles it was originally chambered in. 280ai SAAMI pressure limit is 65ksi, so you can’t beat book velocities without exceeding pressure.

 

[ZAK13]

I normally shoot the Barnes TTSX in 168gr., and getting @ 2950fps consistently, also have been playing with 166gr Hammer AH, and getting @ 3000fps from a 22” barrel. For what it’s worth, neither load is a max powder charge.

 

[hicountry1]

Pre-64 '06, 155 scenar, rl17, 3010

Wby bc, 280ai, 160ab, rl26, 3025

 

[UnckleBob]

I have reloaded since I was 12 years old with my father supervising. Hanloads are all I've ever used on game except for my first deer and antelope. The following are the velocity I get in my rifle with my particular load and bullet.

Winchester Model 70 280AI - 24" barrel
140 gr. Nosler Partition or Accubond
64.5 grs. IMR7828SSC
3230 fps. 140 gr. Partition - 3180 fps. 140 gr. Accubond

My 280AI is new. Because I built it myself using a prefit barrel and an origin action. I decided to test my build with the only factory ammo I could find - 140G Nosler BT. It shot 3200 feet out of the box.

I think I can match that, but have a lot of 162G bullets so I will focus on working up a load for it. With the powder I have, I should be able to to get 3000 fps.

 

[UnckleBob]

I do agree it is like splitting hairs. I can see the 280ai doing better in the mountain setting where it can handle the wind better.

I think I am trying to get talked into the financially smart decision of the 30-06 with having all the brass and bullets already. I have found some 280ai and 280 rem stuff
But it is grossly over priced


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I am pretty sure you can form 280AI brass out of 30-06 brass

 

[seand]

I am pretty sure you can form 280AI brass out of 30-06 brass

You gotta blow the out the shoulder as the case body is longer on the 280/280ai. A little trickier than a simple neck down, you’ll need a false shoulder or risk case head separation.

 

[35WhelenAI]

You gotta blow the out the shoulder as the case body is longer on the 280/280ai. A little trickier than a simple neck down, you’ll need a false shoulder or risk case head separation.

Yes, good point on that with respect to using necked down or for that matter, necked up brass in the 280/AI. Necking down will leave some room up front in the chamber. The necking down/up itself isn't the issue, it's that the datum line on the shoulder is just a tad further back on the brass you would use.

Using non-280 necked brass, the firing pin strike pushes the cartridge forward, until the shoulder/chamber gap is taken up. Then initial gas pressure expands the front of the case (thinner case wall) to grip the chamber. The increasing pressure then pushes the case head back into the bolt face creating the case head separation ring or it just plain separates.

 

[SconnieRaised]

You can look at hodgens website to see Handloading velocities at pressure. There isn’t any magic.

The 30-06 SAAMI pressure limit is 60ksi, it can be loaded ~60fps faster than the reloading books show if you are comfortable taking it up to 65ksi in a modern bolt action. 65ksi is same as a 270win. 60fps is worth about 3 inches of barrel length in the 30-06 (or most anything else)

The 280 rem SAAMI limit is 60ksi similar to the 30-06 due to the weaker rifles it was originally chambered in. 280ai SAAMI pressure limit is 65ksi, so you can’t beat book velocities without exceeding pressure.

That's my favorite thing about the '06. I'm going to get more out of it handloading than my friends ever will with their factory ammo.

 

[35WhelenAI]

That's my favorite thing about the '06. I'm going to get more out of it handloading than my friends ever will with their factory ammo.

Great to see you enthused about reloading. With respect to psi you are talking about with this post (which directly correlates to velocity)...

Keep in mind, 60 fps using 3000 fps vs 3060 fps is 2%. 2800 for vs 2860 fps is 2.1% difference. Not an animal in the world gonna know the difference. It's bragging rights only from that performance parameter.

 

[SconnieRaised]

Great to see you enthused about reloading. With respect to psi you are talking about with this post (which directly correlates to velocity)...

Keep in mind, 60 fps using 3000 fps vs 3060 fps is 2%. 2800 for vs 2860 fps is 2.1% difference. Not an animal in the world gonna know the difference. It's bragging rights only from that performance parameter.

It's a fair point that the gains can be limited. And I'm hunting whitetails with the friends that I'm bragging to, so there no need for the extra velocity anyways.

But when I head out for elk with 200 grain bullets, that 60 fps gives me a little more peace of mind. A load with a velocity that rounds to 2600 fps feels better to me than one with a velocity that rounds down to 2500 fps. At the end of the day, that extra velocity probably isn't going make the difference between a dead elk and one that runs away. But I still like knowing that I have it.

 

[49ereric]

That's my favorite thing about the '06. I'm going to get more out of it handloading than my friends ever will with their factory ammo.

Premium ammo is hot. Flattens primers good.
biggest benefit to hand loading is adjust bullet length to fit the s

That's my favorite thing about the '06. I'm going to get more out of it handloading than my friends ever will with their factory ammo.

The biggest advantage to hand loading is the ability to adjust the length of the bullet for the best possible accuracy provided your barrel likes the bullet you choose. Better yet let the barrel choose the bullet and adjust the length.

 

[35WhelenAI]

It's a fair point that the gains can be limited. And I'm hunting whitetails with the friends that I'm bragging to, so there no need for the extra velocity anyways.

But when I head out for elk with 200 grain bullets, that 60 fps gives me a little more peace of mind. A load with a velocity that rounds to 2600 fps feels better to me than one with a velocity that rounds down to 2500 fps. At the end of the day, that extra velocity probably isn't going make the difference between a dead elk and one that runs away. But I still like knowing that I have it.

With 15 elk, handfuls of mule deer and whitetails, no deer or elk is going to know 60 fps with a 200 gr bullet or any bullet. Don't get hung up on that for even a second.

Your example of rounding is causing the issue. You are looking at it like a 100 fps difference, when it isn't. 60 fps vs 100 fps is a 67% difference in numbers, so yeah it looks way more than it is if you live by rounding.

What is 60 fps giving you that eases your mind to the extent you indicate? Experience in the field that you can tell a difference in effectiveness?

 

[SconnieRaised]

With 15 elk, handfuls of mule deer and whitetails, no deer or elk is going to know 60 fps with a 200 gr bullet or any bullet. Don't get hung up on that for even a second.

Your example of rounding is causing the issue. You are looking at it like a 100 fps difference, when it isn't. 60 fps vs 100 fps is a 67% difference in numbers, so yeah it looks way more than it is if you live by rounding.

What is 60 fps giving you that eases your mind to the extent you indicate? Experience in the field that you can tell a difference in effectiveness?

When I started reloading and coincidentally started hunting elk I used a 165 grain Partition with around 55 grains of IMR4350 cause somebody told me it was a good elk load. It gave 2700 fps and around a 1-1/2 MOA group. I killed a spike with it that year and I was happy.

Fast forward a few years and since that original load I've done things like
- Moved to a 200 grain Barnes LRX bullet
- Switched to a temp stable powder
- Improved my group size to 3/4 MOA
- Found another accurate load near the top of the safe pressure range giving me a 60 fps bump
- Next I'm planning to switch to a higher performance powder that will hopefully give an accurate load that runs a 200 grain LRX at 2700 fps +/-

You could say there's no elk that would know the difference between anyone of those changes. But there's not many people out there that would rather take a relatively light, low BC bullet that gives a 1.5 MOA group over a heavy, high BC bullet with a sub-MOA group at the same velocity. Having the extra 60 fps eases my mind because with it, I know I'm doing everything that I safely can do with my reloading to improve my chances of killing an elk using the rifle that I own.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Good thoughts and good plan. Given a heavier bullet with a good BC and if said bullet is more accurate and maintains expansion velocity you need at impact, it's an easy choice to make. The 200 LRX with a newer powder (StaBALL 6.5 by chance?) could push 2700 fps, so good luck with the development.

 

[Elite]

Wondering what some loads are for the 212 ELDx and 190 ABLR? All the reloading data I can find seems to have some major velocity differences? Wanting to start shooting some heavys out of the 30-06 now that I have just purchased

 

[SconnieRaised]

Good thoughts and good plan. Given a heavier bullet with a good BC and if said bullet is more accurate and maintains expansion velocity you need at impact, it's an easy choice to make. The 200 LRX with a newer powder (StaBALL 6.5 by chance?) could push 2700 fps, so good luck with the development.

I actually was able to get a hold of a few pounds of StaBALL 6.5 and that's my going to be my first try. We'll see if the accuracy is there.

I've also seen published load data with Ramshot Hunter, Superformance, and
RL22 showing higher than typical velocities with bullets that are on the heavier side. I'd be interested if anyone has feedback from their experience with developing loads with these powders for 180 to 210 grain bullets for the '06.

 

[SconnieRaised]

Wondering what some loads are for the 212 ELDx and 190 ABLR? All the reloading data I can find seems to have some major velocity differences? Wanting to start shooting some heavys out of the 30-06 now that I have just purchased

Hodgdon's online reloading center shows lots of options for similar bullet weights. I've had some promising results with StabBALL 6.5, but so far only tried it with cheap 180 grain target bullets that I had on hand. Accuracy has been decent but the velocities for the powder batch I have aren't quite as high as the numbers published on their website.