HAMMER Bullets Performance on Game

[35WhelenAI]

My post #16 shows a clear contradiction in what Hammer says versus what people are seeing in the field. How is the bullet designed to shed petals in order to push a small diameter shank through to do more damage? And if it doesn't exit, then the fact Hammer says leaving all of the energy inside the bullet is a wives tale, is a huge contradiction. Seeing this way more with this bullet than other monos in my brief time on this forum.

 

[amassi]

My post #16 shows a clear contradiction in what Hammer says versus what people are seeing in the field. How is the bullet designed to shed petals in order to push a small diameter shank through to do more damage? And if it doesn't exit, then the fact Hammer says leaving all of the energy inside the bullet is a wives tale, is a huge contradiction. Seeing this way more with this bullet than other monos in my brief time on this forum.

Most of my shanks exited and left a slightly larger than caliber exit, on shots under 200 the petals also typically exited (124 hh 6.5-300 by). None of the internal damage was ever very spectacular and would easily be shamed by the pics on the 223 thread.

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[PredatorSlayer]

This
It's crazy how a forum originally geared towards long-range hunting has been hijacked by a bullet that is ‍ at long range. I especially like that one gas bag shooting light 30 cal "absolute " over 4000 fps out of a 300 rum and proclaiming how effective they are on whitetails under 300 yards ( duh)

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Steve will argue his bullets are long range hunting bullets, but he has significantly overstated the BCs on his website and when Bryan Litz put some accurate BCs out, Steve claimed He knew more about BC calculations than Litz. The guy is an idiot. Between him and the Sherman guy, they have ruined that forum.

 

[35WhelenAI]

The post I read, hammer was not a sponsor on this forum. Are they sponsor or contributor at this point?

 

[35WhelenAI]

Most of my shanks exited and left a slightly larger than caliber exit, on shots under 200 the petals also typically exited (124 hh 6.5-300 by). None of the internal damage was ever very spectacular and would easily be shamed by the pics on the 223 thread.

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With respect to the mono's I shoot, I've not seen spectacular liquification that wows the audience with pictures. However the lungs and/or heart are in chunks in the chest cavity weather free floating or as part of a tattered mess. Lungs and heart don't work anyway you look at it whether tattered and chunked or liquefied. However I've never found a petal in an animal and the only two monos I've recovered were diagonally through elk at the opposite end. Both retained 100% weight. They were a 200 gr original X from my 35 Whelen AI and a 250 gr original X from my 35 Whelen AI. Expanded diameter was .748" on both. That's 3/4"...

 

[amassi]

With respect to the mono's I shoot, I've not seen spectacular liquification that wows the audience with pictures. However the lungs and/or heart are in chunks in the chest cavity weather free floating or as part of a tattered mess. Lungs and heart don't work anyway you look at it whether tattered and chunked or liquefied. However I've never found a petal in an animal and the only two monos I've recovered were diagonally through elk at the opposite end. Both retained 100% weight. They were a 200 gr original X from my 35 Whelen AI and a 250 gr original X from my 35 Whelen AI. Expanded diameter was .748" on both. That's 3/4"...

Exactly
Monos aren't spectacular, hammers claim to add something the current lineup of monos was missing and they don't.

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[Pro953]

I do not believe they are. I think it’s just frowned upon to call any product S**t without qualifying it with experience/information. Otherwise it’s just rumor and drama. Not picking a fight at all, but that is what usually takes this stuff downhill.

Full disclosure I do shoot Barnes and Hammers out of a 300WM and both have performed well with one shot kills, except for one cow elk that I hit too far back and the 2nd shot hit the spine and did not exit. So far 6 animals taken with the shock hammers have been pass through except for the spinal shot. That said none were over 500 yards and not with the more popular hammer hunters, all the absolute hammers. I generally shot the LRX 175 prior to that and my experience was as about the same, so I not selling the hammers as a miracle or anything, just saying they can and will get the job done much like any other bullet when you put it in the right place. I did however find them fairly easy to develop loads for across multiple powders vs Barnes for that that is worth. Though I am not a BR shooter chasing 1/4” groups either. YMMV.


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[35WhelenAI]

Exactly
Monos aren't spectacular, hammers claim to add something the current lineup of monos was missing and they don't.

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Good post. They do claim to add something but the logic is counterintuitive. Hammer clearly says in a post on this forum that the internal speed of the bullet is kept higher because it's a narrow diameter front after the petals shed, in order to exit the animal. Because and I quote, "leaving all the energy in the animal is a wives tale". So, shed the petals and settle for a caliber diameter shank the rest of the way through the rest of the animal?

As well, and correct me if I'm wrong, Hammer States that a smaller diameter flat leading the way through an animal after the petals are shed creates more hydrostatic shock/damage to tissue than a larger diameter mushroom at the front of a traditional mushroom, which would also include the petals that don't break off that create the mushroom on other mono bullets.

 

[Montana Slim]

Oh geez - I actually stopped visiting LRH because of all the Hammer Fanboys…Steve is a dbag and his bullets are super overrated. Take this shit to LRH.

Definitely not a 'fan boy' and maybe they are over rated BC-wise (which absolutely should not matter to 90+% of hunters)... but this thread was to get some examples of performance on game. So if you want to call people idiot dbags without contributing, why don't you go make your stand for your bullet of choice on LRH instead of here?
For the record, I have had a couple of dealings with Steve, and dbag is not the description I would choose.

6.5CM 85gr HH @3450 shot a WT buck at 80yds broadside through the lungs. Looked just like a Barnes with 50yd dead on feet sprint. Seemed like way more damage to insides, but n=1... I think I will probably stick with TTSX or LRX for hunting. For what it's worth, they were very accurate.

 

[wapitibob]

I found petals in both the Elk and Antelope. I didn't look on the hogs. The damage from the bullet was substantial on both. More than what I've seen with the TSX, as I would expect, but shot placement was different as well. The most damage I've seen was 180 Bergers on Antelope; not a good combo for useable meat recovery.

 

[Formidilosus]

With respect to the mono's I shoot, I've not seen spectacular liquification that wows the audience with pictures. However the lungs and/or heart are in chunks in the chest cavity weather free floating or as part of a tattered mess. Lungs and heart don't work anyway you look at it whether tattered and chunked or liquefied.

This isn’t correct. Lungs shots kill by a sucking chest wound causing lack of oxygen to the brain leading to passing out. That is a hole in the lungs does not mean death quickly, or at all actually. If only lungs are hit, then for the animal to die enough air must enter the plural space to collapse the lung(s). Up until a point, more damage equals faster time to incapacitation (dropping).
That point is a bit grey, and certainly depends on exactly what was hit and also the animals psychology, but mostly on how much those lungs are damaged. “Liquified” lungs absolutely cause the animal to pass out sooner than lungs with holes in them- lungs with holes can still work somewhat providing some level of oxygen. Once a certain level of damage is done however, they’re not functioning at all.

That level of damage is very rarely seen with monos. One or two, or even a few examples is not enough to make generalizations about it. The distance traveled, and time after pure lung shots is about twice with monos as with rapidly upsetting lead cored bullets. This is in seeing and logging hundreds of game animals with both personally, and thousands of animals with others doing the same and sharing the results.


Monos absolutely can kill well, and they absolutely take longer to do so.

 

[35WhelenAI]

I agree with the physiological assessment of how lungs work, as well as level of damage that becomes lethal. My experience shows the monos leave both entry and exit, air entering the plural space is pretty much a given. Lungs will not function with holes in that environment.

We're just splitting hairs on this now. You're welcome to shoot your favorite projectiles in my hunting camp anytime, I know we both will have a dead animal at the end of the day if we're so fortunate.

 

[waitforit]

No need to worship any bullet.. does it kill quickly is all that matters. I tried these originally for 2 reasons:

1. Accubonds were slow killers for me. I wanted to have a bang-flop experience and AB by design penetrate deep but do not necessarily cause explosive damage
2. I could not readily find any bullets for reloading 7mm suitable for elk and HH can be obtained anytime

They are super accurate and EZ load development. They really arent the best for long range (with low BCs) so Im not sure what thats all about.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

Definitely not a 'fan boy' and maybe they are over rated BC-wise (which absolutely should not matter to 90+% of hunters)... but this thread was to get some examples of performance on game. So if you want to call people idiot dbags without contributing, why don't you go make your stand for your bullet of choice on LRH instead of here?
For the record, I have had a couple of dealings with Steve, and dbag is not the description I would choose.

6.5CM 85gr HH @3450 shot a WT buck at 80yds broadside through the lungs. Looked just like a Barnes with 50yd dead on feet sprint. Seemed like way more damage to insides, but n=1... I think I will probably stick with TTSX or LRX for hunting. For what it's worth, they were very accurate.

I have had several interactions with him, bought and loaded his bullets and was less than impressed. I stand by my statement that he is a dbag. There was actually a thread over on LRH about hammer bullets poor performance with pics, it kept getting deleted.

With all the awesome bullet choices out there, I have no idea why you would shoot a mono…unless you lived in a communist state like California and had to. Steve will say something stupid like eating game killed with lead bullets will give you lead poisoning…another reason I think the guy is a dbag. To each their own, shoot whatever you want. I think his product is shit .
Also, why shouldn’t BC matter to most hunters? Wind drift can be the difference between vitals and guts even at 300 yards. If you are sitting in a tree stand and are shooting whitetails back east at 100 yards, I agree. Otherwise, BC is relevant,

 

[35WhelenAI]

I don't live in a communist state, and I am not a communist minded person. I choose monos because they give me a dead animal every time from any sane angle and I don't need to post pictures of bullets coming apart or wonder if petals flying off should be normal or not.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I've loaded Hammers once in the past simply out of curiosity. They shot well and killed well on the one deer that my son shot with them. Once my curiosity was satisfied I went back to the bullets I had been using.

 

[huntnful]

I hunted with them all year. They performed as advertised. 2 bucks and 2 elk. Their BC is trash, but they are accurate and easy to develop a load for. I also killed quite a few animals with the ELD-X and Bergers. The hype train is a bit excessive, and I've honestly contributed to it as well lol. I'll keep shooting them sporadically, but their low BC does not make them a true long range bullet IMO. The biggest cartridges in each caliber, 6.5mm, 7mm, .30 cal can shoot the larger hammers with killing velocities out to 1000 yards. But most cartridges can't.

But I can guarantee they aren't a shit bullet though. They have their place for sure. I would absolutely take certain shots with a hammer that I would not take with a berger. And I love bergers. I would take a berger or hammer on a once in a lifetime hunt without question. These were all hammer kills this year. The only non exit was on the bigger bull elk at 390 yards. Bullet was stuck in the rear hip after a lot of penetration. That's the only shank that I've recovered, and you can see that it performed as stated. I actually kill with shit before making bold statements lol. Hammers kill, but I'm torn if I would use them out to 1000 yards due to their low BC. Just my thoughts.

 

[amassi]

I hunted with them all year. They performed as advertised. 2 bucks and 2 elk. Their BC is trash, but they are accurate and easy to develop a load for. I also killed quite a few animals with the ELD-X and Bergers. The hype train is a bit excessive, and I've honestly contributed to it as well lol. I'll keep shooting them sporadically, but their low BC does not make them a true long range bullet IMO. The biggest cartridges in each caliber, 6.5mm, 7mm, .30 cal can shoot the larger hammers with killing velocities out to 1000 yards. But most cartridges can't.

But I can guarantee they aren't a shit bullet though. They have their place for sure. I would absolutely take certain shots with a hammer that I would not take with a berger. And I love bergers. I would take a berger or hammer on a once in a lifetime hunt without question. These were all hammer kills this year. The only non exit was on the bigger bull elk at 390 yards. Bullet was stuck in the rear hip after a lot of penetration. That's the only shank that I've recovered, and you can see that it performed as stated. I actually kill with shit before making bold statements lol. Hammers kill, but I'm torn if I would use them out to 1000 yards due to their low BC. Just my thoughts.
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What shot would you take with a hammer that you wouldn't take with a berger?

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[35WhelenAI]

Good honest report based on experience.

 

[huntnful]

What shot would you take with a hammer that you wouldn't take with a berger?

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Hard quartering away on a bull elk. I killed multiple bucks and elk with the 180 VLD and 195 EOL’s from 30 yards to 630 yards and never got more than 15-18” of penetration. They were devastating on deer, but not impressive on elk. But I’m having a bigger 30 cal built now. 300 NMI and possibly shooting 230 Berger’s at 3100 FPS could change my mind. But I’m also considering shooting the 199 hammers at 3350fps. Their low BC and high wind drift possibilities is the only thing keeping me on the fence. Their actual terminal performance, is not in question though. They kill.