Gunsmith Review - Oregon Mountain Rifles

[gbflyer]

When I do a state or federal contract, a laborer costs me $1K for a 10hr day. Since I don’t have an Insurance or retirement program that laborers check for that day is ~$600. A laborer who brings a lunchbox, I supply the hard hat.

Shop rates for a machine shop are $120hr plus in the lower 48. More for medical/aerospace type work. Think a gunsmith putting his/her machining skills gets that? Tightwad shooters would have a coronary.

Go ahead and give full-time gunsmithing a whirl. Don’t burn any bridges from your day job though.

No doubt there are some financially successful shops. I’d lay odds that the money came from elsewhere to get going at most of them. Debt service is a bitch.

I read a rundown once that Frank at Bartlein Barrels wrote about their process. Boiled down, seemed like they have about 3.5 man hours plus the material in a $400 contoured blank. I tell ya it’s a goldmine after paying multiple employees!

 

[deadwolf]

I have had my share of good and bad experiences with gunsmiths and do currently own one custom rifle. Looking back on having that one built, the only reason I went custom was because I HAD to have a cartridge that I couldn’t find in a factory rifle. That being said, I’m not certain the value is there in having a custom rifle built these days. For a couple of reasons.

First, the number of high quality components available to DIY your own rifle. Action, prefit barrels, triggers…a lot of it is plug and play and not as scary as it’s made out to be. You can watch Ryan Furmans video on Long Range Only of him assembling a rifle and see exactly how easy it can be for anyone with at least some mechanical skill.

Second, factory options that are available and without a doubt on par with most customs. I’m sure some will argue that these companies may or may not have some QC issues from time to time, but the fact remains that the Proof Elevation, Fierce Carbon Fury, Christensen Arms Ridgeline and others……rifles in the price range are under the cost of most customs and are going to shoot just as good.

Third, the snafu and outcome posted up in this very thread make ponying up for a custom somewhat scary. Long wait times, missed deadlines, HIGH COST, with no real guarantee of the finished product is enough to give a guy pause! (Depending on smith)

There are some absolutely great smiths out there turning out what I would term “works of art”, and if that’s what a guy is after, by all means, have at it. If you want or need a special caliber not available via factory offerings, if you want to pick every single component that goes into your build, if you have money to burn and don’t want a rifle that looks like anyone else’s, then go for it, get a custom. But know that there are good options under $3500 that are gonna be absolutely great hunting rifles.


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[WRO]

Ohh so a measly 100k?
Sorry not everyone is a big time rich guy like you.
Damn privilegemuch?. But to me and everyone I personally know 100k clear is alot alot of money.
If you think 100k is poverty you Sir, have lifed way up beyond most people.

I seriously doubt he's making a 100k a year after taxes and expenses.

25k a year for a shop (either rented or owned)

Misc stuff adds up to (vehicles, licensing, shipping etc)

100k take home is a lot of money.

I'm not defending OMR, but to think everyone who just starts a business is raking in the money is a little naive.

Most of the guys I know that start their own businesses have a good income until they're 3 or 4 years in as most of the revenue gets reinvested in the business.

 

[Whiskey_Fish]

If there's no money in gunsmithing... the solution would be to not do it.

The single biggest issue I see in all of this (and frequently when it comes to custom work/construction/services etc) is the time and communication thereof. If you cannot create some sort of system to track committed lead times and update customers regularly on progress, you're failing. It is not the customers job to do that work.


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[762 ULTRAMAGA]

I’ve been going back and forth on if I wanted to take the time to write this, but in the end, if I was a potential customer I’d want to know, so I decided to go ahead with this review. Back in December I decided my tikka 300wm just wasn’t for me and my options were to sell it or pull the barrel and rechamber in something that wouldn’t try to rip my shoulder off when I shot it. I did some research of some gunsmiths that do tikka conversions and came across OMR, Oregon Mountain Rifles. I called and talked to Lee who was extremely helpful, patient and willing to answer all of my questions.

We agreed that he’d chamber my gun in a 7 saum, custom throated to run the longer eld/Berger bullets. He was very particular with what he needed, 3 dummy rounds seated to the exact length I wanted, plus a handful of bullets. He would throat .020” off the lands to give me room to mess with seating depth.

I was quoted 6-8 weeks turn around and off the rifle went! A week later I got a call from a female that confirmed details and told me that it would be 8-10 weeks. It gave me pause that he already over promised, but realistically I wasn’t in any hurry and a couple of weeks didn’t make a difference.

At the 10 week mark with no correspondence I called and asked how things were coming and was told the parts were coming in slowly. I wasn’t surprised and let him know I understood. At 16 weeks I was told all the parts were in stock and he was prioritizing the gun and it would be shipped that week. The following week I followed up to see what was going on. He said that the seated dummy rounds were seated so tight he couldn’t budge them, and broke his tool trying to push the bullet out. Wait…what? It’s a dummy round, why would you want to unseat it.

I called a local gunsmith and asked him what he thought and he was perplexed. He said you remove the barrel, drop the dummy round in, and if it’s not seated all the way you ream is out, little by little until it seats. Then go another .020” and you’re done (Layman’s terms of course). The gunsmith couldn’t understand why OMR was trying to push the bullet out of the case and how he broke his tool, which I assume was some version of a Hornady OAL gauge.

after talking to Lee it was apparent he was struggling to find the lands and figure out the correct OAL plus .020”. I mentioned that he could cut 2 slices into the neck of the case and then pinch it together so it held the bullet. I also offered to send the gun back unthroated, take off 75 dollars which is what I was quoted by the local guy and I’d do it myself. This upset him and he told me what a good deal I was getting and how the custom throat was being done at no charge to me.

he said he’d work on it and it would be done at the end of the week. I called him the following Monday to see if it was done and of course it wasn’t and he was on vacation. He would work on it when he got back. Ok, fine. So far I’d been extremely nice and understanding, knowing this guy had my rifle and I wanted him to do a good job. The following week, 19 weeks later, he shipped it.

I got the rifle a few days later and it looked great!!!! I immediately went to start load development. Step 1, find the lands, come back .020” and seat the bullets there for my ladder test. I already knew the OAL of the dummy rounds, but did a test just in case. I got the number and double checked and triple checked. He cut the throat .100” long!!!! The dummy round was a 175 eldx, one of the longest ogives out there, so any other bullet would be jumping a mile!

I called him immediately. He played dumb. I don’t know what happened, how does it shoot? Honestly, that doesn’t matter. I paid for a custom barrel to be done at an agreed upon way and it wasn’t. He had no answer. It’s clear what happened…he couldn’t get the dummy round bullet to slide in and out and had no way to check the lands, so he cut it long and called it a day.

Ok, well I guess we will see how it shoots? I loaded the 3 dummy rounds into the magazine to make sure it cycled. Nope. Failure to feed on all of them. He didn’t even check to see if the gun would cycle?

I asked him about it and he blamed the cartridge. I asked him why he didn’t make sure they at least fed…crickets. It ended up being that the stock was too fat and the bolt wasn’t catching the base of the cartridge.

I sent the gun back to him at his request after talking to him and AG composites. AG stepped up and even paid for the shipping which should have been on OMR because that gun should never have left his shop. When I spoke with Lee on the phone (btw the helpful Lee failed to exist as soon as he had my gun 19 weeks ago, and the new Lee was annoyed and too busy to talk, preferring to not answer and text) he said that he had some tricks he wanted to try. I told him the inlet was too shallow but I didn’t want him to drill out the inlet anymore, and he immediately agreed offering up that “the bottom metal wouldn’t fit flush then”. Yep, I agree and I don’t want to spend that kind of money to upgrade my rifle then have a big gap on the bottom.

Off the rifle went again. By this time I’m annoyed and want my rifle back ASAP. I call the day after the rifle arrives and tell him it looks like the rifle arrived and was hoping he looked at it. Nope, he’s too busy but will get to it by the end of the week. A couple days later I follow up through text because it’s been so unpleasant to talk on the phone. Rifle is done! I ask what he did to fix the issue “a stock adjustment”. I ask what that means, fearing he just sanded it down. “Sorry I’m too busy to talk” was his answer!!!!!!

The gun shows up and of course he drilled out the inlet and now the bottom metal fits about 1/8” into the stock.

AG composites stepped up and has offered to help remedy the situation. Their stock feels amazing and being my first custom stock I’m really surprised how a good fitting stock soaks up recoil.

In the end the rifle is ok. The stock feels great, the fit and finish of the barrel is great. I’m not sure where he gets his barrels but I have no complaints about the barrel, just his gunsmithing. I wish now I would have had him send it back and let the local guy (who I found after I shipped my rifle) do the actual gunsmithing. When reading reviews there were a lot of positive, but also a lot of negative reviews. One guy on here said something along the lines of “Lee is a great barrel maker, but not a very good gunsmith.” That review seems to be spot on, even though I don’t think Lee actually makes barrels.

As of today here’s where things stand. AG told me to shoot the rifle and when the new generation came out theyd swap it out for the new one. I really like that stock, I can’t say that enough. On the other hand, OMR has not offered a resolution and left me paying full price for a gun that isn’t as promised. He isn’t responding to emails and seems to have gone dark. I’ll update this thread if I hear from him.

I posted about an absolutely crap OMR barrel several months back, Lee is an incompetent smith and terrible with CS.
Honestly I can't even believe he's still in business.
Anyone who reads this thread should take it seriously and buy elsewhere!

 

[Ucsdryder]

I posted about an absolutely crap OMR barrel several months back, Lee is an incompetent smith and terrible with CS.
Honestly I can't even believe he's still in business.
Anyone who reads this thread should take it seriously and buy elsewhere!

Tell us how you really feel. Lol!!

 

[Dhbwa]

Before you send rifle parts to anyone you have to do a bunch of research…..

Alamo Precision Rifles is a good example of a high output, reasonably priced and quality shop. Good dudes….

I use three guys that I trust based on firsthand experience and close pards….

 

[Corey Paulsen (teamkabob)]

Man, suck you drop all the coin and don’t get a working gun.

 

[Ucsdryder]

I've got no dog in this fight, but the question on my mind reading through this-you make no mention of the main issue?!! Did you actually send a rifle back to a paying customer for custom work and it wont function?
I could care less about the delays, and excuses for numerous extended delays. ONLY since you took the time to create an account and provide your side, which is great, have I decided to comment. Frankly you should be more concerned about taking clients money and sending them an inoperable "custom" product.

That’s the question. Not sure how that happens but it appears that @Omrifles2021 isn’t responding after their offer to take the rifle back, which I would have to have a gunsmith disassemble for a fee, then he made is clear I would pay return shipping. Plus I paid shipping to him. So his solution is to give him back his stock and barrel at a fee of $200 to me. If he was really about customer service he would have immediately handled the situation and offered to make it right. Pretty simple, I’ll spin you up a new barrel, shoot that one through the season and when the new one is done, I’ll ship it with a return label and you ship mine back. Or, I’ll cut you a 50% discount on a new barrel, you just need to have a gunsmith mount it. It’s pretty easy to fix the issue if he truly wanted to do it. It’s fine, I’ll keep it and move on. Learned my lesson.

But I would love to hear an explanation as to how a gunsmith throats a barrel 1/10th of an INCH too long and doesn’t know it! Then doesn’t know a gun he built and shipped wont cycle even though he had 3 dummy rounds with the gun.

 

[OSU Fisher]

I feel for the OP. Not only is it beyond frustrating but if your a a normal working man it could be descent $. I hope you get things worked out... This is not the first or 2nd or 3rd time I've heard issues with OMR. I get it, things do happen but some of these issues shouldn't be a problem with a competent Smith. Not to mention the way things have been handled. I'm huge on CS. In the end there are a lot of good ones out there but also a lot of not so good ones. Ive got a handful of longtime proven ones I do/will deal with for this reason. Sometimes a little extra coin is worth it as well. Ps. Ive been extremely happy with Ag as a business and their stocks. I have 4 from them.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

But I would love to hear an explanation as to how a gunsmith throats a barrel 1/10th of an INCH too long and doesn’t know it! Then doesn’t know a gun he built and shipped wont cycle even though he had 3 dummy rounds with the gun.

Because he doesn't know WTF he's doing

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

When you contacted me about the stock, I spoke with AG and AG informed me that they had had similar issues from recent Tikka stocks. They informed me that they had dropped the inletting 0.030" to help relieve the issues you were experiencing and I asked them how they wanted to handle your situation. Ag asked me to inlet your stock the 0.030' which I did and returned the rifle to you. The stock was not DRILLED out ,it set in mill and inletted to AG specs.

We literally build all OMR barrels in house, we get raw blanks and turn-down, wrap to our specs. YES WE MAKE THE BARRELS WE ARE HAPPY YOU LOKE IT!

AG did not pay for the return shipping of your rifle back to OMR, OMR paid for that. We did it as a courtesy for AG. OMR has $137.00 in shipping costs for your rifle to fix the stock.

You mentioned the time frame, yes originally we were 8-12 weeks, the gun industry is crazy right now everyone is struggling to get products currently we are 12-16 weeks. We have 200-250 builds on average in the works. I can't drop everything the second your rifle shows up to check on the problem. Every single customer is equally important and we take pride in that, when you texted to find out what I did to the stock, I told you I was with customers, Im sorry that's not what you wanted to hear.

Customer service? There is no mention of OMR replacing the $35.00 bolt stop with a new one FREE OF CHARGE when the rifle was returned with a non functioning bolt stop that had been ground down so far that the bolt would physically fall out. We did this as a small gesture without hesitation because of the issues you had with the stock, we didn't ask if you wanted it we just did it.

You still owe OMR for the original return shipping costs you have not yet paid for. We sent another email on 8/3/21 asking for payment from your 6/10/21 invoice for return shipping.

We put our blood, sweat, and tears into OMR. I'm sorry we couldn't meet your timeline expectations or customer service needs.

We have built and sold hundreds and hundreds of rifles using AG stocks without any issue we incredibly sorry the stock issues you experienced, customer service was not up to your standards, your time line was not being met or craftsmanship that didn’t meet your expectations. As always if there is accuracy issue, product defect OMR stands behind its products. We are truly sorry for and and all Inconveniences you may have occurred during this build process.

Your final paragraph in the email to OMR states “I need the rifle as it’s my only mountain rifle I feel comfortable taking elk hunting and with 4 rifle tags I’m stuck with it”. This tells me your confidence in shooting the rifle is there enough to trust your entire hunting season using it.

With that being said, We are 100% willing to take back the barrel and stock for a 100% refund minus the outstanding original return shipping charges. Since OMR sent the rifle back It’s been almost 2 months since you received you rifle back from OMR and we have not heard from you, until being notified we were going to be blasted on social to media to receive some sort of resolution. You made it clear you are confident in the rifle, just not happy with customer service and or stock fit which is being taken care of by AG when a new stock design is available. You being upset about everything in your review is all fair and good. We want you to be happy we will issue the refund as soon as we receive the barrel and stock..



Sincerely
OMR

I am sorely disappointed in this response. You blamed everything but COVID. Always blame COVID.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

When you contacted me about the stock, I spoke with AG and AG informed me that they had had similar issues from recent Tikka stocks. They informed me that they had dropped the inletting 0.030" to help relieve the issues you were experiencing and I asked them how they wanted to handle your situation. Ag asked me to inlet your stock the 0.030' which I did and returned the rifle to you. The stock was not DRILLED out ,it set in mill and inletted to AG specs.

We literally build all OMR barrels in house, we get raw blanks and turn-down, wrap to our specs. YES WE MAKE THE BARRELS WE ARE HAPPY YOU LOKE IT!

AG did not pay for the return shipping of your rifle back to OMR, OMR paid for that. We did it as a courtesy for AG. OMR has $137.00 in shipping costs for your rifle to fix the stock.

You mentioned the time frame, yes originally we were 8-12 weeks, the gun industry is crazy right now everyone is struggling to get products currently we are 12-16 weeks. We have 200-250 builds on average in the works. I can't drop everything the second your rifle shows up to check on the problem. Every single customer is equally important and we take pride in that, when you texted to find out what I did to the stock, I told you I was with customers, Im sorry that's not what you wanted to hear.

Customer service? There is no mention of OMR replacing the $35.00 bolt stop with a new one FREE OF CHARGE when the rifle was returned with a non functioning bolt stop that had been ground down so far that the bolt would physically fall out. We did this as a small gesture without hesitation because of the issues you had with the stock, we didn't ask if you wanted it we just did it.

You still owe OMR for the original return shipping costs you have not yet paid for. We sent another email on 8/3/21 asking for payment from your 6/10/21 invoice for return shipping.

We put our blood, sweat, and tears into OMR. I'm sorry we couldn't meet your timeline expectations or customer service needs.

We have built and sold hundreds and hundreds of rifles using AG stocks without any issue we incredibly sorry the stock issues you experienced, customer service was not up to your standards, your time line was not being met or craftsmanship that didn’t meet your expectations. As always if there is accuracy issue, product defect OMR stands behind its products. We are truly sorry for and and all Inconveniences you may have occurred during this build process.

Your final paragraph in the email to OMR states “I need the rifle as it’s my only mountain rifle I feel comfortable taking elk hunting and with 4 rifle tags I’m stuck with it”. This tells me your confidence in shooting the rifle is there enough to trust your entire hunting season using it.

With that being said, We are 100% willing to take back the barrel and stock for a 100% refund minus the outstanding original return shipping charges. Since OMR sent the rifle back It’s been almost 2 months since you received you rifle back from OMR and we have not heard from you, until being notified we were going to be blasted on social to media to receive some sort of resolution. You made it clear you are confident in the rifle, just not happy with customer service and or stock fit which is being taken care of by AG when a new stock design is available. You being upset about everything in your review is all fair and good. We want you to be happy we will issue the refund as soon as we receive the barrel and stock..



Sincerely
OMR

Glad to see you're offering refunds now for your junk barrels
Do you still require the customer to spend hundreds of dollars mailing the scoped rifle back so you can blame the problem on someone else?
Hey are you ready to tell us who makes your blanks?
Or are you still lying about them being built by an anonymous "top tier match grade company"

 

[JeffRaines]

Sucks to hear this. I ordered a stock and bottom metal from this guy and had a decent experience, but then again that didn't really involve him doing much more than placing orders and putting things into boxes.

I guess you get what you pay for... there's a reason his services are so cheap compared to others. Kinda like hiring that mechanic that only wants $100 to do a job that the shop wants $800 to do - there's a reason!

 

[amassi]

Sucks to hear this. I ordered a stock and bottom metal from this guy and had a decent experience, but then again that didn't really involve him doing much more than placing orders and putting things into boxes.

I guess you get what you pay for... there's a reason his services are so cheap compared to others. Kinda like hiring that mechanic that only wants $100 to do a job that the shop wants $800 to do - there's a reason!

So I ordered a stock and bottom metal from omr. The stock was $100 more than if I had ordered from Ag composites. I assumed this was because he had a bunch of privateers and was doing the inletting work himself. Stock drop shipped from ag composites. So he's not even putting them into boxes in this case.

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[Kaseyfield]

How was it 100 more if he sells them at map pricing?

Kasey

 

[amassi]

How was it 100 more if he sells them at map pricing?

Kasey

$673 from omr
$579 from ag composites

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[Brittereiser]

OP sorry to hear the rifle didn't work out. Obviously that's not an acceptable product you were provided and I'm glad you're going to be refunded. But, ultimately you wanted the rifle done right and I understand the frustration.

I do have a tikka upgrade from OMR and had a very good experience with Lee. He was responsive, timely, and sent me a rifle that I really like. I recently developed a load with hammer hunters and am seeing 0.4 moa groups at 200yds. I have no hesitation going back to OMR for another rifle, based on my experience.

Anyone turning out a high volume of rifles, there will be some issues. Hopefully the issues are few and far between with a good QC program. I think standing behind the product and correcting the issue the important thing.

 

[Ucsdryder]

OP sorry to hear the rifle didn't work out. Obviously that's not an acceptable product you were provided and I'm glad you're going to be refunded. But, ultimately you wanted the rifle done right and I understand the frustration.

I do have a tikka upgrade from OMR and had a very good experience with Lee. He was responsive, timely, and sent me a rifle that I really like. I recently developed a load with hammer hunters and am seeing 0.4 moa groups at 200yds. I have no hesitation going back to OMR for another rifle, based on my experience.

Anyone turning out a high volume of rifles, there will be some issues. Hopefully the issues are few and far between with a good QC program. I think standing behind the product and correcting the issue the important thing.

Actually he didn’t refund me. He gave me the run around about paying shipping, etc and being right before the season I wasn’t willing to start over. I would have loved him to offer for me to use it this season then make it right, but of course he didn’t offer that.

I’m glad you were one of the lucky ones! There have been multiple that have reached out to me with eerily similar stores. Lesson learned…

 

[SDHNTR]

I keep having the feeling that there is a dirty little secret with custom rifles if you are paying attention: they often have problems. Maybe not as big as a botched chamber, but inletting off, and bad feeding are common, then many cosmetic errors, etc. Even the best made rifles, you get an action that binds or a barrel that doesnt shoot aces. Lot of money for something that often does not deserve the prestige of "custom".

This is spot on. I have 6-8 custom rifles and most of them have had some minor problem. They all shoot lights out and ultimately I’m happy to own and proud of each of them, but little things, and some not so little, have occurred. Cracked (hairline) trigger guard at the latch pin. BDL bottom metal with a weak catch that blew open when fired, chamber cut so tight it wouldn’t chamber 3 types of factory ammo, and yes, the dreaded won’t feed problem. And that rifle wouldn’t feed even after the builder did extensive load development too! He single fed every round and never bothered to check mag feed! This shop is also highly regarded as one of the best in the country too. In each case, however, each shop/smith fell all over themselves to rectify the problem. They owned the mistake, apologized, covered shipping both ways and did everything to fix the matter and make me happy. Mistakes happen and parts are sourced from a multitude of different shops for it all to come together. It’s not an excuse, but it’s no wonder little mistakes happen. They also aren’t shooting the guns in most cases so they may not see all problems arise.

It’s sad, but these days I’m actually shocked when someone does a proper job the first time.

I wont go into who was responsible for the mistakes as they were all fixed to my standards and all are great guns, but I will share who built the one that was absolutely perfect… Hill Country Custom Rifles. It’s become my favorite rifle. Flawless. They delivered on precisely everything they said they would, including timeframe, and were a pleasure to deal with. They do Tikkas too.