Guided hunt to a too young ram?

[TXCO]

I just heard about a guy stone sheep hunting and theyre worried the ram they shot is too young. Does this completely fall on the hunter if the guide told them to shoot a ram that ended up being too young/illegal? I heard in Alaska when the hunter takes the ram to get inspected, the hunter is who receives the fine.

 

[wyosteve]

My .02 is that yes, it's the hunter's responsibility ultimately to determine if it's legal.

 

[realunlucky]

My .02 is that yes, it's the hunter's responsibility ultimately to determine if it's legal.

I agree with this.

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[mtnclimber]

i disagree. How is some guy from the east coast going to have the knowledge that his guide does? i think the hunter should rely on the guides expertise. thats part of the reason they are hired. But hey, what do i know

 

[BigAntlerGetter]

As a guide and outfitter I personally take it upon myself to make sure my clients are informed of all rules and regs. When they are with me i feel it is my job to make sure they are shooting legal animals. If I send a guy off to hunt or wait in a spot and he shoots an illegal animal it is his fault. But there are also many factors that may be a part of this. Did the hunter shoot a different animal than the guide said, did the hunter possible jump on the shot and it hit another animal that wasn't intended, did the hunter take a shot before the guide had properly examined them and chose the best one. Lots of things can happen in the heat of the moment. But in all honesty when it comes down to it the Dow will blame the hunter as they were the ones that pulled the trigger. An outfitter friend had something similar happen he was shooting a sharps 45-70 was a war vet sniper, a bull ran into a clearing at 225 yards the guy got down and shot he did not see the bull drop, and the guide did. He said of got him an looked at the hunter when he looked back the bull was standing and the hunter shot again. And he dropped. When they got up there, there were 2 dead Bulls the second one ran out and stopped 5 feet from where the first one dropped. They had to call it in and do an investigation it came down to the second bull being confiscated with a small fine. This was 15 years ago kind of a weird situation


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[Shrek]

I'm not sure but I have a problem with the way these states make you hire a guide to hunt a species and then holds the hunter entirely responsible. I believe that unless the guide can show the hunter failed to follow instructions then responsibility should primarily fall upon the guide. I'm betting that it's the same in BC as Alaska and the hunter who followed his guides advice gets hung out to dry.

 

[BRWNBR]

Oh if it was Alaska's they would offer the client a plea deal and drop the hammer all over the guide! They love writing guides tickets and taking airplanes and boats! Clients up here will usually get off by just testifying against the guide.

 

[jm1607]

I'm not sure but I have a problem with the way these states make you hire a guide to hunt a species and then holds the hunter entirely responsible. I believe that unless the guide can show the hunter failed to follow instructions then responsibility should primarily fall upon the guide. I'm betting that it's the same in BC as Alaska and the hunter who followed his guides advice gets hung out to dry.

That sums up my feelings perfectly

 

[Broomd]

There is a reason non-resident guys have to pay 20K to kill a sheep, and have to be accompanied by a guide..
The GUIDE SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE. The hunter is already out 20K for a sour experience and likely a confiscated sheep head and meat.

That's more expensive than many blatant poaching scenarios.

 

[BigAntlerGetter]

There is a reason non-resident guys have to pay 20K to kill a sheep, and have to be accompanied by a guide..
The GUIDE SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE. The hunter is already out 20K for a sour experience and likely a confiscated sheep head and meat.

That's more expensive than many blatant poaching scenarios.

Yes I agree they hammer down on legal hunters who make a mistake worse than they do poachers. Brings us to the govt employees in Colorado killing the trophy bull on closed land. As I said before my guides and my self as an outfit are responsible for our hunters and them doing the right thing and knowing all rules and regs. If my guide had a hunter kill an illegal animal that he knew was illegal but still gave the go ahead he wouldn't be working for me anymore. If it's my guides fault I will stand on the hunters side. I take pride in having good guides that know what they are doing to take care of the hunters that have paid me. A lot of colorados laws are a bit wishy washy for a new comer, so I feel it's my job as well as guides to know the regs for the hunters. Yes they should have an idea as well as hunters but final line my guides should know. If a hunter says no do not shoot not legal and the hunter shoots anyways then I will stand by my guide.


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[pgk]

What is too young? If it's full curl it's legal and if the outfit/guide told him to take it then it's on the hunter to decide if that is a ram they want to kill. In BC (most stones) you are not supposed to shoot on age anyway and only on curl (breaks the nose). If the outfit/guide made a mistake and told a client to take an illegal ram that is on the guide. The client is rarely found fully responsible in that type of situation.

 

[Trial153]

I'm not sure but I have a problem with the way these states make you hire a guide to hunt a species and then holds the hunter entirely responsible. I believe that unless the guide can show the hunter failed to follow instructions then responsibility should primarily fall upon the guide. I'm betting that it's the same in BC as Alaska and the hunter who followed his guides advice gets hung out to dry.

This^^^^


If it's all on me then let the whole hunt be all on me. Don't force me hire a guide and then I take it on the chin if they screw up. Talk about having your cake and eating it too....

 

[BRWNBR]

20k????

Dang I gotta raise my prices!!!

 

[PA 5-0]

20k????

Dang I gotta raise my prices!!!

Don't you dare !!

 

[AK Troutbum]

20k????

Dang I gotta raise my prices!!!

If you're not charging at least 20k for a 1:1 10 day guided sheep hunt, than yeah, you probably should raise your prices.


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[PA 5-0]

If you're not charging at least 20k for a 1:1 10 day guided sheep hunt, than yeah, you probably should raise your prices.


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You talking Yukon?? You can book a 100 hunts in AK for $15k. I've been offered 2 cancellation hunts in the last month, both under $12k. That's just the hunt price.

 

[BRWNBR]

Pa 5-0 come on! Gotta say a huge number all the time
To make a point on these forums! 20k 50k 100k say it all! Anything to make folks feel like it's a rich mans game and not reachable by someone who just knows how to budget for priorities! Lol
Shoot I had a guy send me 500 bucks a month from Mowing lawns to finish paying off his sheep hunt. Killed a ram too.

 

[MTNRCHR]

Geez thats 2.5 years of payments...

 

[Broomd]

Pa 5-0 come on! Gotta say a huge number all the time
To make a point on these forums! 20k 50k 100k say it all! Anything to make folks feel like it's a rich mans game and not reachable by someone who just knows how to budget for priorities! Lol
Shoot I had a guy send me 500 bucks a month from Mowing lawns to finish paying off his sheep hunt. Killed a ram too.

Awww, more "guide abuse" squealing, Jake? C'mon.
Have you even looked lately to see what Canadian sheep hunts are costing these days?

I just googled "Stone Sheep--Guided" and the FIRST TWO google hits I got were from Stone Mountain Safaris at $41,000 U.S. for a guided Stone hunt. The second was Prophet Muskwa for $46,500 U.S.
The figures amount to about $50,000 and $56,000 Canadian respectively if my math is even remotely right.
For someone to lay down anything close to that kwan better warrant a guide who can count to eight.

And "rich man's sport" my ass. Reads like you are the one throwing stuff out there, my friend. Many of these hunts are booked by average guys like us who skimp and save for a lifelong dream.

 

[TXCO]

As a guide and outfitter I personally take it upon myself to make sure my clients are informed of all rules and regs. When they are with me i feel it is my job to make sure they are shooting legal animals. If I send a guy off to hunt or wait in a spot and he shoots an illegal animal it is his fault. But there are also many factors that may be a part of this. Did the hunter shoot a different animal than the guide said, did the hunter possible jump on the shot and it hit another animal that wasn't intended, did the hunter take a shot before the guide had properly examined them and chose the best one. Lots of things can happen in the heat of the moment. But in all honesty when it comes down to it the Dow will blame the hunter as they were the ones that pulled the trigger. An outfitter friend had something similar happen he was shooting a sharps 45-70 was a war vet sniper, a bull ran into a clearing at 225 yards the guy got down and shot he did not see the bull drop, and the guide did. He said of got him an looked at the hunter when he looked back the bull was standing and the hunter shot again. And he dropped. When they got up there, there were 2 dead Bulls the second one ran out and stopped 5 feet from where the first one dropped. They had to call it in and do an investigation it came down to the second bull being confiscated with a small fine. This was 15 years ago kind of a weird situation


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I had this happen to me while guidind Aoudad sheep in West Texas. Guy was a newbie and confused as well. Luckily, theyre considered exotics and nuisances in Texas so no legal issues on having 2 sheep.