Guided hunt to a too young ram?

[TXCO]

Interesting thoughts and obviously there are lots of different situations. If we assume that it is a solo ram and was judged legal by the guide, shot and then deemed illegal by the game department, is it always going to fall on who took the shot from a court stand point?

Does the hunter then subject themselves to Lacey violations if they bring an animal home across state/country lines? I think thats how theyve gotten a lot of the tv personalities in Alaska retroactively. Its such a shame to rely on someone and even if its an honest mistake on all parties to have the situation go horribly wrong. Sadly we have to have firm lines for a reason or else they would get crosses all the time. (no sympathy if it was mailicous)

 

[carlc]

Maybe the rams that are just barely legal, or not quite legal in this case, should be left to live for one more year. Let them breed one more year, grow one more year. Hunters would kill better trophies, outfitters would have better records, it would be a win for everyone. Look at that white sheep in another thread that was six and full curl, think of it at ten. I mean shoot it probably was even a breeder yet.

But the original blame on a sub legal should rest solely on the guides shoulders.

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[Broomd]

Maybe the rams that are just barely legal, or not quite legal in this case, should be left to live for one more year. Let them breed one more year, grow one more year. Hunters would kill better trophies, outfitters would have better records, it would be a win for everyone. Look at that white sheep in another thread that was six and full curl, think of it at ten. I mean shoot it probably was even a breeder yet.

But the original blame on a sub legal should rest solely on the guides shoulders.

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That was my son and his friend's sheep. Who the heck is going to 'study' a curl+3/16ths sheep and say "hmmmm, he only looks, six y/o." Hell, not any of us, guided or not(!) We'd all hammer him. AK F&G saw that sheep and drooled.
He would have been 40" in two years. But at 36" and obviously way passed legal he was too nice to pass on for two walk-in hunters in a hard hit area.

 

[5MilesBack]

I just googled "Stone Sheep--Guided" and the FIRST TWO google hits I got were from Stone Mountain Safaris at $41,000 U.S. for a guided Stone hunt. The second was Prophet Muskwa for $46,500 U.S.

My goodness........even if I was a billionaire, and the prices were half that, this wouldn't interest me much at all. Now an archery elk hunt on the San Carlos.......ya, I'd be all over that.

 

[jm1607]

My goodness........even if I was a billionaire, and the prices were half that, this wouldn't interest me much at all. Now an archery elk hunt on the San Carlos.......ya, I'd be all over that.

Lol, I kinda feel the same way. I basically pretend Sheep outside the lower 48 don't exist Not cause I can't afford it but because it's just a money game unless you're a resident

 

[BRWNBR]

Guide abuse?! Lol that's a new one! Guess I didn't feel abused, more like "hunter whining"
Stone sheep prices are off the chain for sure and yes I totally agree a guide show know what the heck he's telling his clients to shoot!! That's kinda the point of him even being there! I was referring to Dall sheep, I think sheep are a bit over rated myself but people want them.
Don't gotta tell me these hunts are booked by guys who skimp and save, that's basicly 99% of my client base!

 

[Broomd]

No hunter whining here, I'm blessed beyond measure.

And I'll share some love....we may banter about at these forums, but if I ever did need a guide, you'd be the guy I called. You've helped me more than once with sound advice, especially Kodiak..

 

[PA 5-0]

Pa 5-0 come on! Gotta say a huge number all the time
To make a point on these forums! 20k 50k 100k say it all! Anything to make folks feel like it's a rich mans game and not reachable by someone who just knows how to budget for priorities! Lol
Shoot I had a guy send me 500 bucks a month from Mowing lawns to finish paying off his sheep hunt. Killed a ram too.

I hear ya Brother. All good fun. I saved for 4 yrs to do my '14 sheep hunt. The side jobs, 100% for "sheep money", included cutting lawns, plowing snow, trimming trees, cutting wood. Had my outfitter's acct# at Wells Fargo and made a deposit every month or two. Like any goal in life, you just have to COMMIT. There's always a 1000 excuses not to do something.

 

[AK Troutbum]

You talking Yukon?? You can book a 100 hunts in AK for $15k. I've been offered 2 cancellation hunts in the last month, both under $12k. That's just the hunt price.

I guess you're right, a lot of 17, 18, and even 19k sheep hunts up here, but it looks like nobody is getting 20k....Yet. Oh, but I think those prices are right around the corner.

In regards to the OP, I'm definitely on the side that if you have put down that kind of money for a guided hunt and you're guide tells you "that's the one, go ahead and take him", and you do, only to find out he's sublegal, it should fall 100% on the guide. Other circumstances, like you just get an itchy trigger finger, shoot the wrong animal, etc., than you should be held accountable.

 

[TXCO]

Like any goal in life, you just have to COMMIT. There's always a 1000 excuses not to do something.

Thats the spirit!!! Im doing the same thing for a dall in 2018 or 2019. If I dont do it now before kids, the excuses are only going to get bigger and harder.

 

[PA 5-0]

Thats the spirit!!! Im doing the same thing for a dall in 2018 or 2019. If I dont do it now before kids, the excuses are only going to get bigger and harder.

COOOORRECT !!! And when all your friends and family tell ya how insane you are, just smile and go hike another couple miles.

 

[Poser]

Someone should start a sheep hunting fetish publication called "barely legal"

 

[5MilesBack]

My problem is......as soon as I saved for a sheep hunt I'd be like "Whoa......I can get 3 or 4 premium LO elk tags for that amount"........and then be trophy elk hunting for the next few years instead.

But everyone has their own priorities, and it's their money.

 

[TXCO]

My problem is......as soon as I saved for a sheep hunt I'd be like "Whoa......I can get 3 or 4 premium LO elk tags for that amount"........and then be trophy elk hunting for the next few years instead.

But everyone has their own priorities, and it's their money.

Youre exactly right, we all have our own preferences. Its not wrong, just different. Some of my friends buys boats and new trucks, I just focus on the next hunt.

 

[mtnclimber]

Who the heck is going to 'study' a curl+3/16ths sheep and say "hmmmm, he only looks, six y/o." Hell, not any of us, guided or not(!) We'd all hammer him

This is so very incorrect.

 

[Broomd]

This is so very incorrect.

Baloney.
A hunter sees a 36" ram that is four inches past full curl and then starts counting annuli to access age? Seriously? Get real.

I call complete B.S. on the "very incorrect.' The honest truth is any of us would kill that ram in a heavily hunted walk-in area.
A Tok tag? Maybe not. Chugach? again, maybe not.

 

[AK Troutbum]

Baloney.
A hunter sees a 36" ram that is four inches past full curl and then starts counting annuli to access age? Seriously? Get real.

I call complete B.S. on the "very incorrect.' The honest truth is any of us would kill that ram in a heavily hunted walk-in area.
A Tok tag? Maybe not. Chugach? again, maybe not.

That's me. Never even attempt to count annuli because I suck at it. If it's past full curl, it's a contender for sure as far as I'm concerned. I'm not necessarily pulling the trigger on it, but I'm definitely considering it.


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[adventure907]

Baloney.
A hunter sees a 36" ram that is four inches past full curl and then starts counting annuli to access age? Seriously? Get real.

I call complete B.S. on the "very incorrect.' The honest truth is any of us would kill that ram in a heavily hunted walk-in area.
A Tok tag? Maybe not. Chugach? again, maybe not.

It is not that hard to discern a young ram, even if it is past full curl. And yes, some sheep hunters are discriminating and want to let the young sheep grow, and only shoot older age class rams. Not all of us would kill a young ram, just because it is past full curl and legal.

 

[mtnclimber]

Baloney.
A hunter sees a 36" ram that is four inches past full curl and then starts counting annuli to access age? Seriously? Get real.

I call complete B.S. on the "very incorrect.' The honest truth is any of us would kill that ram in a heavily hunted walk-in area.
A Tok tag? Maybe not. Chugach? again, maybe not.

Haha thank you for telling me about the Rams I will and won't shoot. Speak for yourself. I pass on 8 year 37inch Rams regularly and often go home empty handed. I'm totally ok with that as I spend more days in the field and hope to catch them when they are bigger the next year or two. theres no right or wrong here, it's just a matter of opinion. My sheep speak for themselves though.

 

[Broomd]

Haha thank you for telling me about the Rams I will and won't shoot. Speak for yourself. I pass on 8 year 37inch Rams regularly and often go home empty handed. I'm totally ok with that as I spend more days in the field and hope to catch them when they are bigger the next year or two. theres no right or wrong here, it's just a matter of opinion. My sheep speak for themselves though.

First of all, per my posting my comments are directed at guys that hunt heavily hunted areas. Where we (I and mine) hunt if one passes on a 37" full curl 8 year old ram you just lost your chance at that year's legal sheep. That's likely the bottom line. It's noble to want to hold out for something special, whatever that is in such a range. But they simply aren't there. You pass?... that sheep will be down the trail on an Icon pack a day later with someone else. That is reality.

If you, yourself, are "regularly" (your words) passing on such sheep, you have no clue what I am talking about, as the area(s) you hunt provide(s) far more opportunity at trophy quality sheep. My comments are specific to those hunters/area scenario I mentioned.

Greg put's forth an honest assessment here that most of us would admit to.

As AKCub, one of my Ak sheep hunting buds would say, "One can BS the fans, but you can't BS the players".....