Guided hunt fee structure

[Btaylor]

You are missing the point. I am just contemplating how to best motivate an outfitter when game may be difficult to find. Money motivates and I believe if the outfitter had some skin in the game they may work a bit harder to find a suitable animal or be a bit more humble when presenting their case as why to book with them.

Why not devote the resources used to pay someone else to "do the work" and do it yourself? If you truly want the hunt and not just the kill. If you just want the kill, high fence is always an option and you can buy whatever size you want. If you want the hunt, not filling a tag has to be an acceptable outcome whether that be from not finding the caliber animal you are looking for or not finding a legal animal at all. Sounds like your first decision is between being a hunter and being a shooter.

 

[HornPorn]

Why not devote the resources used to pay someone else to "do the work" and do it yourself? If you truly want the hunt and not just the kill. If you just want the kill, high fence is always an option and you can buy whatever size you want. If you want the hunt, not filling a tag has to be an acceptable outcome whether that be from not finding the caliber animal you are looking for or not finding a legal animal at all. Sounds like your first decision is between being a hunter and being a shooter.

Ignorant post. What you are paying for is exclusivity....vast expanses of private land where you don't have to compete against other hunters, and where bulls can grow to trophy caliber because the hunting is managed.

Lots of people out there including Cam Hanes, Joe Rogan, Randy Newberg, and any other bad a$$ elk hunter on social media you want to name who go on ranch hunts. It just means private property. East of the Mississippi we call them farms, west of the Mississippi they call them ranches, and the cost of these hunts as well as the wait list is dictated by the caliber of bulls to be had. If you knew anything about the topic you would know that, but it is clear you do not. Yet you have an opinion.....hilarious. Using your logic if you pay a lease to hunt whitetails back east then you are paying someone else to "do the work"... I guess you kill all your deer on public land in Arkansas?

 

[ODB]

Outfitters sell hunts not elk.

?? Not true at all. Years ago you could drive down 84 and see some gonzo elk fenced up …around fall those elk would magically disappear….

 

[Btaylor]

Ignorant post. What you are paying for is exclusivity....vast expanses of private land where you don't have to compete against other hunters, and where bulls can grow to trophy caliber because the hunting is managed.

Lots of people out there including Cam Hanes, Joe Rogan, Randy Newberg, and any other bad a$$ elk hunter on social media you want to name who go on ranch hunts. It just means private property. East of the Mississippi we call them farms, west of the Mississippi they call them ranches, and the cost of these hunts as well as the wait list is dictated by the caliber of bulls to be had. If you knew anything about the topic you would know that, but it is clear you do not. Yet you have an opinion.....hilarious. Using your logic if you pay a lease to hunt whitetails back east then you are paying someone else to "do the work"... I guess you kill all your deer on public land in Arkansas?

Maybe you should re-read the post I quoted where the OP specifically says he would like the outfitter to have more skin in the game so they work harder to find a suitable animal.

 

[WCB]

?? Not true at all. Years ago you could drive down 84 and see some gonzo elk fenced up …around fall those elk would magically disappear….

How is it not true? The terms Game Farms, High Fence, Shooting Preserve etc. are not common replacement terms for Outfitters. When the term Outfitter is used it is almost exclusively used (especially on this site) for free range/fair chase public/private hunting.

 

[ODB]

How is it not true? The terms Game Farms, High Fence, Shooting Preserve etc. are not common replacement terms for Outfitters. When the term Outfitter is used it is almost exclusively used (especially on this site) for free range/fair chase public/private hunting.

Now that the law has spoken…

 

[WCB]

Now that the law has spoken…

oh so your one of those guys....have a good day

 

[oldman]

There is an "outfitter" based out of Meeker CO that claims his average mule deer is150-180"...He also claims a high shot opportunity...he has a very impressive web page....and he is a lying SOB. Look at the bucks in his gallery......nearly none over 150" and few of them. Buyer beware and do your homework. If the deal sounds really good....keep checking, you are being lied to. I grew up in Western Colorado and am familiar with most of the outfitters.....about 1/3 deliver as promised and are booked a long ways out.

 

[Jroyce3]

Just returned from a hunt where an outfitter assured me that the quality of animal was well with in reality on a private ranch hunt. Apparently a very reputable outfitter. We glassed up one animal that was ok but was significantly smaller than what I had for expectations when booking the hunt(and had clearly discussed with outfitter). It got me thinking about the fee structure. Once you pay the outfitter their fee they really no longer have any "skin in the game" other than possibly reputation. So it got me thinking. This is less about money than it is the time and experience. On future hunts I would be willing to pay 50% down and then upon shooting at, wounding, harvesting an animal the other 50% PLUS another 25-50% of guide fee. There is certainly some risk to the outfitter but there is also reward to "put your money where your mouth is." I believe that this would make the outfitter be more honest with the hunter on his expectations prior to booking the hunt and work harder to get the hunter on game of their expectations. Probably not a reality but just wanted to hear what others thought.

Good idea, pay for performance.

 

[Deadfall]

You are missing the point. I am just contemplating how to best motivate an outfitter when game may be difficult to find. Money motivates and I believe if the outfitter had some skin in the game they may work a bit harder to find a suitable animal or be a bit more humble when presenting their case as why to book with them.

No offense. That's not realistic. Good outfitters are booked atleast a year in advance. With that being said, in places like here in montana where outfitter tags are not guaranteed holes in camps do open up. So it's possible to find a spot without having to book way in advance.

There are some real shady people that have no business calling themselves outfitters.

I dont envy anyone trying to sift through the outfitter pool. Regardless of the state. Personally I would stay clear of private land that is outfitted for anything less then 15k.

 

[Deadfall]

It's a free market. In your scenario if you come across a outfitter willing to do that, ie. Negotiate....run away...A good outfitter won't really care if you book or not. They will be courteous and straightforward. Answer your questions, then hang up and go on with life. If they promising you anything more then a good camp and lots of hunting, go somewhere else

 

[Eyeman]

To the OP, thats too bad that you go into a Hunt like that with the expectations and confidence that you will be seeing alot of Elk and possibly a 320 to 340 Bull and only see one Bull that broke 300. That must have been a real downer being told of that expectation and dealing with the emotion after Hunting 3 or 4 days then slowly coming to the reality of it it not happening.
Not sure what you paid but if it was good money and private land in NM I would probably go into the situation with the same hopes as you did.
I had some friends with the same thing happen a couple of years ago. Total bust.
As far as the fee structure you are suggesting I dont see it happening unless you get some one off outfitter or guide that really has a dream come true piece of land because its hard to have a gaurantee like that.
The only other way would be a high fence where they already probably have a fee structure based on inches.
I hope you get that big Bull one day!

 

[IdahoElk]

Elk. Conversations with outfitter prior to booking were 330-340. I was willing to shoot 320+. Saw only 1 6x6 entire hunt and was probably just better than 300.

That sounds like hunting to me?
I think it's totally unrealistic to provide numbers to a guide and think he can produce said animal on public land, try a fenced outfit that farms the animals next time.
I'm sure your dream animal does exist in the outfitters unit and he see's them often but to think you can produce one on command is setting yourself up for failure.

 

[oldman]

I think another aspect is that after watching outdoor hunting shows our expectations are out of whack. As far as cost go there are a few good outfitters in Colorado that have good elk hunts for around $7-8, 000 but the accommodations are rather sparse and the bulls are 2 1/2-3 1/2 year old rag horns 90% of the time. The area units with big bulls are generally many years waiting for enough points to draw the tag. There are however some ranchers that get vouchers which they can sell and the bulls are mature BUT be prepared for mucho.dinero......I see where a desert big horn hunt in Mexico is now going for $85,000. If I had my sights set on a mature elk I would book a hunt with the Jicalla in Dulce NM and get Larson Panzy for a guide. I have done it twice and it was a great experience.

 

[bts]

That sounds like hunting to me?
I think it's totally unrealistic to provide numbers to a guide and think he can produce said animal on public land, try a fenced outfit that farms the animals next time.
I'm sure your dream animal does exist in the outfitters unit and he see's them often but to think you can produce one on command is setting yourself up for failure.

private ranch

 

[IdahoElk]

private ranch

Oh, ok that's different, you should have at least seen more animals, I'd be bummed also.

 

[ODB]

oh so your one of those guys....have a good day

Having a great day, thanks!

As far as salting a herd on an 80K ranch... well within the realm of possibility...

 

[HornPorn]

Saw this today and thought about this thread. I guess some of you think this is a high fence hunt, or have some other negative thing to say about this. Truth is I bet any of you would love to be going on this hunt! I know I would!

 

[roadrunner]

Some posts already addressed this. Too many outfitters would get stiffed by chump hunters that bellyache and cry because the "quality" wasn't what they thought it should've been. It would be nice to be able to mind control the animal to make it do what yo want, but that only happens in the make believe world of comic books and Hollywood.

Ignorant post. What you are paying for is exclusivity....vast expanses of private land where you don't have to compete against other hunters, and where bulls can grow to trophy caliber because the hunting is managed.

Wrong. You're paying for experience. You get the most value from the invested amount of the hunt on Day 1. The value goes down from there...

 

[dtrkyman]

80k ranch where elk probably only occupy 30 percent of it? Sounds like potentially inflated numbers by outfitter or tough hunting, it happens even on private!