Guide reserves right to cancel Hunt?

[Where's Bruce?]

This is only an issue when your outfitter is a one man band. I use guides every few years and select outfitters with multiple guides so if my guide is unable to hunt...we have back-ups in place. No way I would knowingly place myself in a position where I am left without a qualified guide for my hunt. I also take the time to speak with the guides beforehand and do a thorough background check to make sure I don't get screwed. For every legit and hardworking guide out there, there are two asshats out for the money who aren't worth spit.

 

[jerkeejoe]

Just exchanges a few emails with the guide and he was very understanding. I offered to draft some language for his contract and he was appreciative.

And the guide is the owner of his outfit and has several other guides working for him.

 

[Salmonchaser]

Sounds like he’ll have a better contract. Most guides outfitters have something like that in their contract. We do get hurt, break legs have heart attacks etc, all kind of ass hats out there who will sue because they missed a shot much less having a guide medivac out. Buddy of mine being sued right now cause the client couldn’t walk a 1/4 mile to shoot.
Then there is fire closures etc. usually it’s pretty well hidden in the fine print. The reality is, in this day and age, a guide or outfitters would cancel one hunt and be out of business. It would be nice to know you could die getting some sport on a hunt and not have him take your house.

 

[ODB]

I just reviewed the “contract” I had with a rather spendy trip I just took to Kenya. Not one mention of them retaining the right to cancel, only info as to how much of the deposit I would progressively lose if I cancelled at specific intervals as the trip approached. Dunno...

 

[Salmonchaser]

Exactly why I try to avoid words like always and never. No acts of God, beyond our control clause, outstanding confidence.

 

[Poser]

I used to deal with contracts extensively. It was standard practice to black out clauses that you disagree with and send the contract back and forth a couple of times to sort it out. Just try negotiating more specific terms that are agreeable to both parties.

 

[WJS23]

The outfitter I worked for up in Maine had the same thing in his contract for his clients it’s just there for protection if the shit really hits the fan like if the state closed the season due to weather or something crazy. And that hasn’t happened in the 28 years he has been a master guid

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Sounds like he’ll have a better contract. Most guides outfitters have something like that in their contract. We do get hurt, break legs have heart attacks etc, all kind of ass hats out there who will sue because they missed a shot much less having a guide medivac out. Buddy of mine being sued right now cause the client couldn’t walk a 1/4 mile to shoot.
Then there is fire closures etc. usually it’s pretty well hidden in the fine print. The reality is, in this day and age, a guide or outfitters would cancel one hunt and be out of business. It would be nice to know you could die getting some sport on a hunt and not have him take your house.

OMG! That's crazy! If you cannot hike at least 5 miles without difficulty you should take up fishing...hunting ain't for you.

 

[Salmonchaser]

Can you imagine. As to fishing, when my new guests call wanting to know how to prepare I tell them to double their walks

 

[Woodrow F Call]

I’ve never before used a guide but decided to hire one for a bull hunt this year because I don’t have the time to adequately scout for elk before the hunt. It’s a difficult tag to get here and I want to make the best possible use of it.

I received the agreement the other day and it contains a provision stating that the guide can cancel the hunt at any time with full refund.

This seems insane to me. Particularly as a lawyer I have incredible difficulty giving the guide carte blanche to cancel the hunt at any time without cause. I’d be screwed if I relied on the guide to do the prep work and scouting and then he cancelled without leaving me time to scout.

Is this a normal provision in a guide agreement?

If I were a guide, I wouldn't offer services without that clause. Have you put yourself in the shoes of the guide?

That clause isn't there to harm his/her customers. If a guide were to just cancel, word would get around and he/she would go out of business. That clause is there in the event that there is some moron customer with unrealistic demands or is acting in a manner that is not safe. The guide can pull the plug if needed.

 

[Jordan Budd]

Yeah I would talk with him about the reasoning for that. And even come up with some clause on your booking sheet specifically saying you get your refund if it is cancelled. He may have some reasoning for that clause and didn't do a good job at laying out what its for.

I have a clause in our contracts that says we reserve the right to stop hunting and ask the hunter to leave the ranch at any time during their hunt with us. That's in there because some people are crazy and don't follow the rules and practices we have in place for our business. Like breaking the law, going places or doing things we've told them not to. I've never had to ask someone to leave or terminate a hunt, but it's in place because of things that have happened with other guides.

If they look like a solid outfit I would just talk to them about it. If you don't get a good feel or vibe with the answer then I'd move on.

 

[jerkeejoe]

If I were a guide, I wouldn't offer services without that clause. Have you put yourself in the shoes of the guide?

That clause isn't there to harm his/her customers. If a guide were to just cancel, word would get around and he/she would go out of business. That clause is there in the event that there is some moron customer with unrealistic demands or is acting in a manner that is not safe. The guide can pull the plug if needed.

I have no problem with the guide reserving the right to cancel the hunt for cause, but I’m not OK with putting myself at risk of having a guy cancel at the last minute leaving me with the elk tag and no clue where to hunt.

That said, I updated few posts ago and said that the guide was very cool about it and understood my concerns and took me up on my offer to draft a little more clear and concise language.

I actually sent him a revised contract this afternoon with a bit more clarity on the cancellation provision that still protects him, but also protects his clients.

I read, interpret, criticize, and draft contracts every single day. Ambiguity in contract is not good for anybody. I just wanted some clarity, and the guide agreed that it was appropriate.

Edit to add: And after speaking with him more (and talking to more people), I am very confident both that he is a great guide and that there is absolutely no bad intentions in his contract.

 

[Huntindog45]

I cannot imagine guiding without that in the contract.


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[jerkeejoe]

I cannot imagine guiding without that in the contract.


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The different perspectives are interesting because I can’t imagine signing a contract that could result in me wasting a bull tag I waited 10 years to get based on vague contract language allowing a guide to bow at for any reason at all or for no reason at all. Particularly when it will likely be 15 years before I get another bull tag in my home state.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

Most people don't read the details like you might. They are just trying to protect themselves and run their business. When a good customer and a good company does business, it works fine.

Good on you to work with them to get a better contract. Good luck on your hunt!

 

[Kevin Dill]

That said, I updated few posts ago and said that the guide was very cool about it and understood my concerns and took me up on my offer to draft a little more clear and concise language.

I just wanted some clarity, and the guide agreed that it was appropriate.

And after speaking with him more (and talking to more people), I am very confident both that he is a great guide and that there is absolutely no bad intentions in his contract.

All good. Seems the key to this was simply a willingness to communicate and make it work for both parties. I hope you have a superb hunt!

 

[rayporter]

some years back I had an outfitter send me a contract I was not comfortable with and we sent the contract back and forth until we were both happy with it.

it never occurred to me to talk about it with anyone but him.

 

[jerkeejoe]

some years back I had an outfitter send me a contract I was not comfortable with and we sent the contract back and forth until we were both happy with it.

it never occurred to me to talk about it with anyone but him.

The beauty of an online message board is that I can talk about it with a ton of people who are more experienced than I am in the process. I wanted to make sure I wasn’t way off base before asking him about it.

Glad your way worked out for you. This has worked out well for me.

 

[robby denning]

It's in our agreement. Things happen way beyond the best outfitter's control (cancer, death, government rules changing, fire closures, and guides who don't show up). We put it in there to protect the customer and let them know we won't keep their money. In 21 years, we've never had to exercise that clause.

 

[gbflyer]

I have no problem with the guide reserving the right to cancel the hunt for cause, but I’m not OK with putting myself at risk of having a guy cancel at the last minute leaving me with the elk tag and no clue where to hunt.

That said, I updated few posts ago and said that the guide was very cool about it and understood my concerns and took me up on my offer to draft a little more clear and concise language.

I actually sent him a revised contract this afternoon with a bit more clarity on the cancellation provision that still protects him, but also protects his clients.

I read, interpret, criticize, and draft contracts every single day. Ambiguity in contract is not good for anybody. I just wanted some clarity, and the guide agreed that it was appropriate.

Edit to add: And after speaking with him more (and talking to more people), I am very confident both that he is a great guide and that there is absolutely no bad intentions in his contract.

Cool you were able to work it out. Did you bill him? Just kidding. Maybe the new language will help him out with future customers.