Grizzly Encounter / Shots Fired near Big Sky

[GAHunterJim]

Recently, I was at an dinner meeting with a new perspective faculty member, she was from the middle east and remarked that Americans were quite unusual when it came to dangerous animals and conservation. It was her observation around much of the world that dangerous animals were controlled and removed so humans can be safe. Here in the US, we protect and often reintroduce alligators (we are in FL and that's how the conversation started), wolves and grizzlies.

Our conservation history got off to a rough start (buffalo come to mind) but we eventually got on the right track restoring native wildlife where we could, often times in direct conflict with other human interest (thinking wolves and ranchers).

The expanding grizzly populations between Yellowstone and Glacier are a huge success story and they should be conserved just like other wildlife and game animals (thinking deer, elk, black bear, etc.).

IMHO, the only way humans and grizzlies will coexist if they are hunted with a plan in place to maintain a level determined with land capacity and reasonable interaction with humans. The situation has simply gotten out of control and needs to be addressed.

I spearfish in FL and encounter sharks often, it's a choice I make and don't call for killing sharks because they are dangerous. People can generally avoid the water, they can't avoid the land. Some may say 'well, don't hunt, fish, hike, jog or otherwise recreate in grizzly country but that's just realistic). Decades ago it was quite easy to avoid Grizzlies outdoors as their territory was limited, now they are every expanding into areas that were once safe.

It's easy to be an arm-chair quarterback in the safety of your recliner when you're not the one getting sacked and mauled, killed or disfigured for life!

 

[ChrisAU]

Recently, I was at an dinner meeting with a new perspective faculty member, she was from the middle east and remarked that Americans were quite unusual when it came to dangerous animals and conservation. It was her observation around much of the world that dangerous animals were controlled and removed so humans can be safe. Here in the US, we protect and often reintroduce alligators (we are in FL and that's how the conversation started), wolves and grizzlies.

Our conservation history got off to a rough start (buffalo come to mind) but we eventually got on the right track restoring native wildlife where we could, often times in direct conflict with other human interest (thinking wolves and ranchers).

The expanding grizzly populations between Yellowstone and Glacier are a huge success story and they should be conserved just like other wildlife and game animals (thinking deer, elk, black bear, etc.).

IMHO, the only way humans and grizzlies will coexist if they are hunted with a plan in place to maintain a level determined with land capacity and reasonable interaction with humans. The situation has simply gotten out of control and needs to be addressed.

I spearfish in FL and encounter sharks often, it's a choice I make and don't call for killing sharks because they are dangerous. People can generally avoid the water, they can't avoid the land. Some may say 'well, don't hunt, fish, hike, jog or otherwise recreate in grizzly country but that's just realistic). Decades ago it was quite easy to avoid Grizzlies outdoors as their territory was limited, now they are every expanding into areas that were once safe.

It's easy to be an arm-chair quarterback in the safety of your recliner when you're not the one getting sacked and mauled, killed or disfigured for life!

Getting different perspectives is fun.

The argument about "this is/was their territory and they have every right to it" is wild to me. So was downtown Denver, and the very patches of land that some of the posters in this thread houses sit on. Should we release grizzlies and wolves in their literal backyards? Why not? Oh, we didn't really mean it that way...

Humans have advanced to the point that we can make it so we don't have to deal with being eaten by any other animal. Deliberately taking action to the contrary of that is being complicit in murder IMO.

 

[Dos Perros]

I just look at it as a risk profile kind of thing. Is the risk profile of going outside appreciably changing? I'm not really sure it is. Certainly our feelings around it is, but chin up lil fella it'll be okay.

 

[GAHunterJim]

I would imagine it's quite different if you live in Griz territory lil fella!

 

[riversidejeep]

I've been waiting for them to be reintroduced to California.

“Wisten to the whythmic whythm of the woodwinds as it wowws awound and awound…and it comes out here!” — Elmer Fudd

Do you really think they haven't already ?

 

[Dos Perros]

I would imagine it's quite different if you live in Griz territory lil fella!

By what measure?

 

[Fowl Play]

I just look at it as a risk profile kind of thing. Is the risk profile of going outside appreciably changing? I'm not really sure it is. Certainly our feelings around it is, but chin up lil fella it'll be okay.

I definitely do think the risk profile for hunters is increasing in these areas. Especially archery elk hunters, which is most applicable to me, and maybe why I feel a bit more strongly on the topic. As a hunter we are already violating many of the big No-No's of grizzly country as part of the activity.

• I am most successful in dark timber where my furthest visibility/shot opportunity is already within archery range -- strike one.
• I'm specifically spending my time in their prey's home turf -- strike two.
• I'm actively trying to sound like their prey to call in a bull -- strike three
• If I'm successful, I've now added food into the equation -- strike four
• I'm not going to be able to get that sucker out in one go, so now I'm leaving the food unattended, and will be returning possibly hours later for trips two and three -- strike five, 6, etc.

There's likely others I'm missing. Of course you adapt and take additional precautions. But... it's going to get worse before it get's better unless actions are taken. More people + more bears just equals more news articles.

 

[Turkeygetpwnd38]

I like that they are there. Every place shouldn’t be safe, curated and welcoming for people, key wild places. Monsters are real and glad they are.
I don’t want to get mauled, don’t want anyone else too either. They should be hunted sustainably but do not think that is going to change anything as far as behavior. Everything comes with risk, decide what’s acceptable for you.
I spend a lot of time solo hunting in grizzly country and recreate with my family in griz country, so am not a sideline bystander.

Reminds of of a Fargo (tv series) quote:
“Because some roads you shouldn't go down. Because maps used to say, "There be dragons here." Now they don't. But that don't mean the dragons aren't there.”

 

[GAHunterJim]

By what measure?

"by what measure"? It's a bit more serious if you live in country where you might have your face ripped off in the ordinary practice of your business (the fellow attacked ran an ATV rental business) vs being able to go anywhere in your local without possible risk of grizzly attack.

Be like someone from KS telling me "go have a swim, don't worry about sharks or gators" in every body of water in and around FL.

 

[Dos Perros]

One thing I think that's underappreciated, is that those big scary grizz bears are keeping more places wild, because a lot of folks aren't willing to deal with the perceived risks. Get rid of the bears and more people will be in them hills. If you want real life evidence look at how many points the Bighorns take to draw vs the units around the park.

 

[akcabin]

We have bears around and I've never felt that I need to stop hunting because of it. And we have tooooo many. In 7 days hunting there were 2 dead moose found that were probably bears. They even bit a hole in the doornob of the cabin. It's just part of the game. We can harvest 1brown per year without a permit. 3 black bear. And the wolves are putting a hurt on the moose also.
They also get hunted just like a moose too. Although they have probably not had very many encounters with humans and have a natural awareness humans. I don't believe that the are fearful. And I also suspect that many more bears have seen me than I have seen them. My beautiful wife often comments on how she n her brother would fish in a stream full of salmon and pass by bears.
My point being bears are bears and not much is going to intimidate a rogue bear. It happens. They get old and if hungry n see you well then you may have an issue. Surprise a mama. My beautiful wife would slug you. Bears need to be managed by biologists to stay within management goals and the public should be used to do this.
Personally I enjoy the experience. And the opportunity to harvest bears, both colors. And accept the risk involved in still hunting in under growth 4-6' tall. I don't like that the moose, swans, geese, spruce hens and other critters that become bear food are being threatened. Moose calf survival rates are getting below 10% in areas. Again management goals are way out of wack. Bears and wolves are the issue.
I guess my point is that bears and wildlife in general need to be managed for maximum benefit. By the experts. A lot of discussion here but not many solutions. I do know this for certain. When hunters start fighting amongst ourselves about methods n means for game management we all loose. And the folks that want to lock up the bush win again. Maybe use this thread or another on how to proceed with a plan. But folks get wrapped up in what they are thinking about and don't have time to recognize that others may have a great idea. I know that there are a lot of folks more knowledgeable than me here. I know that the infighting by hunters fishers n trappers is our biggest problem.
And if we as a group can't start to work better together and fight for what public lands are left and the opportunity to get out and harvest game n feed our family. We will continue to loose.
We all feel devastated about hearing about anybody getting hurt in any fashion. I pray that this man n his family can get through this.
Just thought I'd bring a different perspective to the discussion

 

[Blowdowner]

Get over it. Bears aren't that big of a deal.
Either play and live there and enjoy it for what it is. The good and the bad.
Or let the fear of a bear ruin your life expereinces.

Bears are increasing. Gun carry rights are going down. When those two lines cross I hope you’re just whistling and sh*++in’ in the woods in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[Alder_]

OoOOOoOoOo. Bears are increasing. They have been for 50+ years.
Go play in the woods and do your part when the system allows.
Otherwise just watch this stupid thread play out like every other thread on rokslide about bears.

 

[Dos Perros]

"by what measure"? It's a bit more serious if you live in country where you might have your face ripped off in the ordinary practice of your business (the fellow attacked ran an ATV rental business) vs being able to go anywhere in your local without possible risk of grizzly attack.

Be like someone from KS telling me "go have a swim, don't worry about sharks or gators" in every body of water in and around FL.

It's not a hard question to answer. Give me an objective measure of how things have changed, and then demonstrate that the change is significant.

 

[Blowdowner]

Amazing how much fear people have with the unfamiliar. Reading this thread you would think people are getting attacked every day and the woods aren't safe. North America averages 11 bear maulings per year, and 3 fatalities. United States averages 7500 injuries per day and 107 fatalities per day in auto accidents.

No one is trying to exterminate the evil car. No one thinks twice about driving thousands of miles to and from a hunt.

Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2023 using Tapatalk

Garbage thought process sir. No one rides a Grizzly to get to work to feed their family.

 

[Blowdowner]

One thing I think that's underappreciated, is that those big scary grizz bears are keeping more places wild, because a lot of folks aren't willing to deal with the perceived risks. Get rid of the bears and more people will be in them hills. If you want real life evidence look at how many points the Bighorns take to draw vs the units around the park.

Wait until they start tipping dumpsters over in town. That’s what we’re talking about here.

 

[Dos Perros]

Wait until they start tipping dumpsters over in town. That’s what we’re talking about here.

That's a bear that should be dealt with, and they are in the current state of management.

 

[GAHunterJim]

I did answer your?

 

[Blowdowner]

That's a bear that should be dealt with, and they are in the current state of management.

Ya but where did it come down from — the same empty mountain you described as a good thing.

 

[bow_dozer]

One thing I think that's underappreciated, is that those big scary grizz bears are keeping more places wild, because a lot of folks aren't willing to deal with the perceived risks. Get rid of the bears and more people will be in them hills. If you want real life evidence look at how many points the Bighorns take to draw vs the units around the park.

Living here, for sure. I do use that as an advantage. I know many local guys who will not hunt SW MT anymore bc of their fear of bears. Go to the breaks or eastern MT, i have never seen so many people "hunting" in my life (mostly NR plates).

Draw odds are tough to correlate to IMO, they give out such few tags to both MT units that odds are dismal at best.