Grizzly Encounter / Shots Fired near Big Sky

[aron]

I don't get the Desire to Delete grizzlies from existence.

Do you get that there is indeed a problem?

The number of encounters and life or life threatening injuries has been increasing. Look at the number of news reports and articles that occur each year from the impact of the grizzly population. It truly is sad seeing the impact it has caused. I feel for the individuals and families impacted by the result.

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[TL406]

Time to poke the bear (pun intended)

Lots of arrogance on full display.

Sad that folks are actually talking about using SSS on a federally protected species. If a person doesn't like a specific law/ruling/regulation, work the process and get it changed. It is also interesting the moderators are actually allowing the discussion of violating federal law to even occur.

When suits & ties on the east coast decide that we have to tolerate monsters in our backyard (or not use public lands), people are going to feel betrayed to the point of deciding not to play the game anymore. Ranchers solved this problem 100 years ago, and now the problem is being brought back by those who don’t have to face the consequences. I have to go into a legit grizzly hole for work tomorrow morning; I’m a civil engineer. There weren’t grizzlies there 15 years ago.

Arrogance is an ironic expression to use at the beginning of your post.

 

[Alder_]

Get over it. Bears aren't that big of a deal.
Either play and live there and enjoy it for what it is. The good and the bad.
Or let the fear of a bear ruin your life expereinces.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

I have no personal experience of putting the fear of man in grizzlies. But I have personally done this for bull sharks and alligators here in Florida. Maybe it’s apples to oranges but…

Spearfishing on a wreck and the bull sharks start getting too aggressive, charging you, stealing your fish? Pick out the biggest one in the bunch and hit him with a power head. Every single shark avoids you like the plague from then on. Same goes for 12-13ft dinosaurs that tourists have been feeding and start getting way too aggressive.

Would it stop an attack from a momma Grizzly on a blind corner with you in between her and her cubs… probably not. But these animals are smart and need to learn that people are a real threat in the wild. Not just some passerby with yummy camp snacks.

I agree. I’m no expert either but, ignorant isn’t tatoo’ed on my forehead.

It’s plain stupid for someone to suggest that hunting an animal has no affect on how the remaining animals act. I wander why animals in national parks act differently than those living on ground they are hunted?

Hunting them will put things back into perspective somewhat. Through behavioral conditioning as well as reducing the grizzly numbers. That’s a certified fact on both fronts. There isn’t an animal alive that doesn’t know when it’s being hunted. That’s a fact too. But, let’s not let facts interfere with guts on the internet that think acknowledging them is just silly.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

When suits & ties on the east coast decide that we have to tolerate monsters in our backyard (or not use public lands), people are going to feel betrayed to the point of deciding not to play the game anymore. Ranchers solved this problem 100 years ago, and now the problem is being brought back by those who don’t have to face the consequences. I have to go into a legit grizzly hole for work tomorrow morning; I’m a civil engineer. There weren’t grizzlies there 15 years ago.

Arrogance is an ironic expression to use at the beginning of your post.

It’s not the suit and ties from the east causing your problems. It’s the western suit and ties that have infiltrated your environment.

 

[hobbes]

I agree. I’m no expert either but, ignorant isn’t tatoo’ed on my forehead.

It’s plain stupid for someone to suggest that hunting an animal has no affect on how the remaining animals act. I wander why animals in national parks act differently than those living on ground they are hunted?

Hunting them will put things back into perspective somewhat. Through behavioral conditioning as well as reducing the grizzly numbers. That’s a certified fact on both fronts. There isn’t an animal alive that doesn’t know when it’s being hunted. That’s a fact too. But, let’s not let facts interfere with guts on the internet that think acknowledging them is just silly.

Shooting them with a paintball gun, as suggested, isn't hunting them.

I will agree that a full on assault on the grizzly population would change some things, but grizzly aren't your typical North American predator. In addition, we aren't going to be hunting them like we do elk or deer. There will be no grizzly opening day orange army. We'll be lucky to see more than ten tags in MT at some point in the future. Killing 5 or 10 grizzlies isn't going to teach the population anything. A grizzly isn't a prey species acting docile in Yellowstone NP. I believe when the states thought they were going to hunt them back in 2018 (maybe) there was some plan for 12 tags in WY, 6 in MT, and 1in ID.

I'm assuming that a grizzly in Alaska will chew on you in the same circumstances as those that have here in MT and they are hunted.

 

[jmez]

Amazing how much fear people have with the unfamiliar. Reading this thread you would think people are getting attacked every day and the woods aren't safe. North America averages 11 bear maulings per year, and 3 fatalities. United States averages 7500 injuries per day and 107 fatalities per day in auto accidents.

No one is trying to exterminate the evil car. No one thinks twice about driving thousands of miles to and from a hunt.

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[logflame]

We taking bets on if next time he goes out chasing birds he has a shotgun that holds more than 2 rounds?

Traded in his Citori for an A5.

 

[hobbes]

Amazing how much fear people have with the unfamiliar. Reading this thread you would think people are getting attacked every day and the woods aren't safe. North America averages 11 bear maulings per year, and 3 fatalities. United States averages 7500 injuries per day and 107 fatalities per day in auto accidents.

No one is trying to exterminate the evil car. No one thinks twice about driving thousands of miles to and from a hunt.

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How many folks are driving a car each day as compared to those wandering around with grizzlies? Teeth and claws tend to spook folks especially when they are as big and unpredictable as a bear. I'd prefer to be in a car wreck as opposed to being chewed on and tossed around like a rag doll.

I don't want them exterminated. I'm going to keep hunting. But..... I'll continue to avoid the largest concentrations and hope we do have a season some day. I will apply for one of the limited tags.

 

[jmez]

Odds of being in a car wreck, 1/366 crashes for every 1000 miles driven. Odds of being mauled by a bear, 1 in 2.1 million.

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[hobbes]

Odds of being in a car wreck, 1/366 crashes for every 1000 miles driven. Odds of being mauled by a bear, 1 in 2.1 million.

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I'll still probably take my chances with the car.

Besides, the more folks that are scared witless of the grizzlies, the fewer folks I have to compete with elk hunting.

 

[Fowl Play]

To those quoting the car wreck numbers and saying the threats overblown. Which activity has a higher likihood of having your lower jaw forcibly removed from your body:

A: Driving solo cross country for 10 days
B: Doing a 10 day backpacking elk hunt south of Big Sky, MT.

I will be solo for 10 days in SW Montana next week. Would be great to have not read the multiple articles on this recently, but I’m still hunting. I’m all for conservation, but do think we should pause and think about letting the largest predator in the lower 48 take back up its old haunts.

 

[Pro953]

Odds of being in a car wreck, 1/366 crashes for every 1000 miles driven. Odds of being mauled by a bear, 1 in 2.1 million.

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Can I ask where the 1-2.1MM number is from?

As we are looking at the statistical risk of a car accident to miles driven the measurement should be the same for hunter effort.

Also you state crashes, not accidents with injury. I am not sure I would say a “‘mauling” and a non-injury accident are a similar occurrence.

Number of injury accidents to a measure of miles driven vs a number of grizzly mauling to a measure of outdoor recreation hours within the known grizzly population area would be a more accurate comparison.


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[jtevanMT]

There are areas outside of both Glacier and Yellowstone NP where Grizzly Bears are above the population objectives from the recovery plan and are having a negative impact on tourism, ranching, and increased bear encounters with poor outcomes (for both bears and people). Bears in these areas should be managed by FWP through hunting. Bears that are not scared of people should be removed by hunter harvest or FWP. Outfitters and ranchers should be allowed to remove problem bears from these areas with FWP permission. I have friends who will no longer hunt, guide, or backpack in some areas of MT due to negative interactions with bears.

 

[grfox92]

What are the odds of getting mauled by a grizzly when you hunt and recreate in the highest grizzly density region in the lower 48?

I know, personally, 3 people who have been mauled. One of those people had been mauled twice. Once in 2011 and once in 2014. Where does that statistic come from? If it doesn't take into account all the people who don't ever recreate in grizzly country, the statistics means nothing.

I've been archery hunting 3 or 4 days a week since September 1st. I haven't seen a single other hunter out there. I have passed around 5k cars on my way to work though....

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[Fritzh20]

 

[EastHumboldt]

I just had a flash of brilliance. One of the things that makes driving safer is air bags. We need a vest you can wear in bear country that has air bags… full of pepper spray! Bear takes a swipe and it never actually connects cuz the bag deploys and he gets a face full of juice!! I feel safer already.

Headin out to the shop to invent this sumbich cuz I know a marketing opportunity when I see one.

 

[Pramo]

I used to spend a lot of time kayaking class 4/5 steep creeks, the argument is always you have a better chance getting killed driving. I personally knew 3 people killed boating and no one in my personal circle killed in a car accident so far at age 45.

A more accurate calculation is number of people engaging in the actual activity. How many are actually hunting thick lower 48 grizzly country that's numerator not people who drive cars

 

[Ferrulewax]

I just had a flash of brilliance. One of the things that makes driving safer is air bags. We need a vest you can wear in bear country that has air bags… full of pepper spray! Bear takes a swipe and it never actually connects cuz the bag deploys and he gets a face full of juice!! I feel safer already.

Headin out to the shop to invent this sumbich cuz I know a marketing opportunity when I see one.

You’re too late!

 

[jmez]

Number came from the forest service. You aren't going to ever get an accurate comparison. 11 attacks per year, black and grizzly bears vs 7500 injury accidents per day., You can't just use hunters you have to include all people that recreate in bear country all year. 11 vs 2,737,500.

If you only want to use hunters for people engaging in the activity then you have to take out all the non hunting people from the statistics. Odds go down further. A lot of mauling's don't involve hunters.

Sure there is risk. I just find the dichotomy interesting. We engage in risky behavior every single day but no one sees it as a true risk because it is necessary and familiar. Take any numbers you want. The odds that you are going to get mauled or killed by a bear are extremely low. Numbers come from somewhere and you may win the lottery. Sucks if you, family or friends are the ones involved. Doesn't change the odds.