Griz guide/backup cartridge

[VernAK]

.223 and Grizzly should not be in the same sentence BTW.
Should be considered a grammatical error.

Gotta throw in with Flathead on this one.

I've had three very close encounters with grizzlies over the years and must agree with several posts. There is no one perfect stopping gun for bears but several will do the job.

IMO, ya gotta have bullets heavy enough and stout enough to break major skeletal structure and continue on well into the bear.

Your gun should fit you like a good bird gun and be absolutely as reliable as can be. I don't hang ammo and gadgets on my rifles and I remove the sling if I'm not in open country.

Years ago, I shot a medium grizzly with the rather new 338 WM with the wrong bullets but some of the few available. Thinking I had killed a grizzly, I approached the site in the willows and had a hell of time killing the wounded bear with five more shots. We won't go into the first shot as you'll tell me it's bullshit.

Another medium grizzly was hit by my partner with 338WM and it did a few gymnastics before charging straight for us. Waiting for my partner to kill him, I noticed he was trying to pickup his ammo off the ground as his floor plate had dumped. I shot with my 375H&H 300gr TBBC and hit the neck close to an ear. The bullet lodged about two inches off the side of the tail.

A large boar harassed our fish camp but on his second visit he couldn't be deterred and came at me. At 13 paces I shot him in the chest and he swapped ends and went down . His back legs were paralyzed so the 12 ga Brenneke must have penetrated considerably before impacting the spine.

For bears taken while hunting, we are naturally carrying rifles. For fish camp or canoe trips we take one 870 slug gun as everyone knows how to use it and it handles like a decent bird gun.

 

[PNWGATOR]

I’m still of the opinion that an M4 with 77 TMKs delivers the most reliability, highest hit rate, depth of penetration, temporary stretch cavity and permanent wound channel.

P.S. I could care less what the bullet looks like at the conclusion of its work.

 

[LoggerDan]

Go do it then

 

[PNWGATOR]

Go do it then

I’d love to.

With regularity.

Out of curiosity, what’s your experience killing big game animals with a 77 TMK?

Just curious, as I’m certain the wound channel is more than adequate, but I have zero coastal brown bear killing under my belt.

 

[LoggerDan]

what excuses do you have for not doing it or not having done it before?

 

[PNWGATOR]

what excuses do you have for not doing it or not having done it before?

Mostly being an internet blowhard eating Cheetos on the couch in my parent’s basement…

 

[mtnwrunner]

Well, you can always take those cheetos with you when you go to alaska........

Randy

 

[LoggerDan]

I’d love to.

With regularity.

Out of curiosity, what’s your experience killing big game animals with a 77 TMK?

Just curious, as I’m certain the wound channel is more than adequate, but I have zero coastal brown bear killing under my belt.

With that bullet? None. I don’t feel the need to prove anything using tiny bullets.

 

[Mangata]

Really fond of having a compact lever gun in this situation.
Easy to deploy & gain target with open sight in close contact.
I have never had my lever jam, and can cycle reasonably well in my own opinion.
Have four rounds counting the round in the chamber. Round in the chamber is safe with cross bolt safety & half cock on the hammer. Saw a guy once after he was mauled who was alone without a round in the chamber. Ultimately short cycled his bolt, said it was terribly disappointing to pull the trigger with the bear at the end of his barrel and only hear a click…
Agree with center mass, shoulders for shot placement.

 

[Billy Goat]

Round in the chamber is safe with cross bolt safety & half cock on the hammer.

I have shot at deer without flicking that crossbows safety thing on the newer lever guns.

Can't imagine I'd remember that damn thing under pressure. Probably manage to cycle the tube empty and not realize it.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

With that bullet? None. I don’t feel the need to prove anything using tiny bullets.

Small bullets are cool, I love shooting my 6.5 and not burning an entire bottle of powder ever 80 rounds but I’m with you.

Taking a 223 for big bears in alaska is a hard pass, a straight up nope.

 

[MattB]

I’m still of the opinion that an M4 with 77 TMKs delivers the most reliability, highest hit rate, depth of penetration, temporary stretch cavity and permanent wound channel.

P.S. I could care less what the bullet looks like at the conclusion of its work.

When trying to stop them as a guide would rather than just kill them, I think a .223 is massively out of its league.

We got weathered in Anchorage once and spent hours at the airport gate with a guide who was the head of the guide association on Kodiak. As was previously explained, brown bears have a slow heart rate and can live for a fair bit more time after taking a shot that wrecks the heart/lungs. There are numerous documented instances of bears were killed by being shot during an attack, but that still stomped the piss out of the shooter before they died.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

When trying to stop them as a guide would rather than just kill them, I think a .223 is massively out of its league.

We got weathered in Anchorage once and spent hours at the airport gate with a guide who was the head of the guide association on Kodiak. As was previously explained, brown bears have a slow heart rate and can live for a fair bit more time after taking a shot that wrecks the heart/lungs. There are numerous documented instances of bears were killed by being shot during an attack, but that still stomped the piss out of the shooter before they died.

I’ve seen this first hand minus the being killed by the bear part but a few years back I shot a bear that I stalked up on mid September, it was busy eating berries. I hit it good from about 280yds, it rolled on its back and hopped up and started running towards me and a buddy. When it saw us, it peeled right (our left) at about 50 yds and ran for a solid 100 yards while looking side ways right at us. It went over a small rise and expired.

That shot wrecked its lungs but it still had a minute or so left in him.

 

[Mangata]

I have shot at deer without flicking that crossbows safety thing on the newer lever guns.

Can't imagine I'd remember that damn thing under pressure. Probably manage to cycle the tube empty and not realize it.

A bit of practice can smooth that out.

In my opinion safest mode to have a round in the chamber.
Least safe in my personal experience would be semi auto with a round in the chamber.
Again, discussing my thoughts on back up gun for brown bear.

 

[FLATHEAD]

Until you've seen a Brown Bear, you cant really appreciate their size.
Literally the size of a horse.
I felt under gunned with my .300 Win.

 

[VernAK]

Until you've skinned and packed-out a brown bear, you can't really appreciate their size.

 

[dirtytough]

So the only person in this thread that would actually use a 223 for a guide cartridge has never been around brown/griz bears in a follow up situation. Interesting.

 

[ldmay375]

Until you've skinned and packed-out a brown bear, you can't really appreciate their size.

I will also add size appreciation of a 300-400 pound grizzly / brown with one as the single point of focus, while the bear is running through the brush and ferns directly at you. That one looked plenty big and plenty fast that day.

 

[DawnPatrol]

It’s the combination of speed and size that always impresses me. They are unbelievably fast when they want to be, especially for such a big animal.

 

[LoggerDan]

It’s danged amazing how quiet they can be. Or loud. Numerous times on Afognak, I’d be looking at my lay, thinking about my next steps, fire up the ol 661 and you’d hear one take off running and it would sound like a D9 tearing through the woods. Damned unfair!