GRITTY - FILM PERMITS - YOUR THOUGHTS?

[ttucci16]

Id love to hear peoples opinion that are in defense of him, how they would feel if outfitters didn't have to pay for permits to guide hunts on public land? Id even wager a bet that these YouTube douchers that aren't pulling permits are making more net income than outfitters. All the while blowing the living shit out of public land and selling out every chance they get. Calls a freaking puppet that would suck a golf ball through a garden hose for another sponsor. And guys like call, born and raised, and hushin are all exploiting public land for profit and making full time livings at it while not pulling permits. Newbergs been doing it for years so dont give me so poor me wo me bull shit. Sure wish I didn't have to have licenses and permits for my job.

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I'll take a stab at it......From what i can find, it costs an outfitter 3% of their adjusted gross revenue to use national forest land. So let's say an average guided elk hunt is 5k in Idaho. The outfitter would owe $150 per paid hunt he takes out. I would say that is small change in the grand scheme of costs. Brian would have to pay a $10 fee per day he uses public land. It seems like most of his hunts are 10 days, and I'm going to guess that he averages 80 days of hunting/filming a year for a total of $800. Still not a huge sum of money in the grand scheme of things. The only issue i see is that the process/way the law is written and enforced is absolute garbage. I don't think Brian is "blowing out public land". He rarely even says what state he is hunting. Does he market products....yes....but in my opinion does it subtly. If you're upset about brian, born and raised, and hushin "exploiting" public land, hop on over to patagonia and rei and see what their business model is based around. Their whole business model is getting out and hiking ON PUBLIC LAND. Hunters have so little impact on public land and the destruction to habitat compared to your everyday thru-hiker. It seems like your issue lies in more hunters getting into "backcountry" hunting. Look at the amount of views Brians videos get....then go look at Darwin on the trail. Brian has 6 million views vs darwin on the trail having 33 million. You think darwin on the trail is pulling permits in order to hike the whole PCT?( It averages 150 days to do, so $1500 to film and monetize it)....i highly doubt it. Do you think the USFS is going after all these "thru-hikers" and outdoor companies who film on public land....again, I doubt it. Should he have gotten the permits....yeah sure.....is it dumb that someone has to pay in order to self film a hunt....yes. Again, it seems like your issue is not the permits, but these guys getting more and more people out into the backcountry.

 

[SDHNTR]

I wish all this crap would just go away and we could get back to hunting for the sake of hunting. I’m disgusted with social media’s impact on the sport.

 

[HookUp]

I'm glad he is addressing the issue. it's true...Youtube is full of public land adventures and until someone snitches on one user nothing is done. The appropriate action for the feds would be to go after youtube for hosting these films. Youtube has the resources for the fight and at this point would likely win in court. Last time I was at Yellowstone there was a hundred plus people taking pictures and filming. Rangers were present and nothing was said to anyone. Quite the double standard they have going on.

 

[bojangles808]

still shocked he has relevance. first aron's coattails then lampers whos next

 

[Deadspace]

I have zero opinions on his permit fiasco, I just hope he can release the backlog of videos he has. Hate on him all ya want but that guy makes some awesome videos.

 

[IN_Varmntr]

still shocked he has relevance. first aron's coattails then lampers whos next

Exactly. I listened to his old stuff solely for Aron's contributions. When Brian went solo he started regurgitating everything he heard from everyone who was on his show prior.

Self-aggrandizing is what gets a lot of people noticed though. "Let me tell you how awesome I am..."

To hear how he used to talk, he would surely own up to the fine and deal with it like a gritty man should!? Yea, didn't think so.



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[Desk Jockey]

Brian is a good guy just trying to make a living in a way that a lot of us probably wish we could.

I was in the media industry for a while years ago and the permit cost friction is a real deal. Laws and regulation for “commercial” production are geared around a big Hollywood type film or TV shoot that could involve dozens of not hundreds of people. In addition to the costs your permit application has to be signed off on by biologist, botanists, veterinarians and on and on and on. Cottage industries spring up to satisfy the requirements and it adds tons to production costs. the rules are older and aren’t geared for 1-3 people filming a hunt on a digicam while practicing glow impact camping. As written, they scoop up everyone from a Hollywood production like Dances with Wolves to potentially your kids tick tok video shot in the parking lot.

In fact, in California, I think to film with animals as primary players you would need a supervising veterinarian and a paid representative of the SPCA to assure there was not mistreatment or cruelty so I don’t you could actually kill anything on film, in California as the rules are written unless you had a REALLY cool SPCA rep.

Yeah...I get it. Brian is making his case and he does make some money on this stuff, but if you really dig into it, he has a valid point. The rules are misaligned with the use case. Besides, I would think having people like him, @Randy Newberg , meateater and others showcase hunting opportunities on public land and filmed in a low impact, positive way promotes the use of public lands and probably brings in a lot of revenue for the same lands in the form of permits and visitation. It honestly probably also drives revenue for gear companies, outfitters and local businesses in those areas too.

As a reminder, US hunters fell from 17 million in 1980 to 11 million a few years ago. While the US added 100 million pops, so hunters went from 7% to 3%. We are a shrinking minority, and to survive and thrive, hunting has to have a positive public image that engages in thoughtful dialogue and presents a well packaged media presence to the non hunting public. If we don’t have that, age, apathy and the anti hunting crowd will erode the sport little by little by little and the early casualties will be public land hunting. So I will support anyone who is putting out solid, thoughtful, well-reasoned content like Brian.

 

[RyanT26]

I didn’t listen, he is a bit much for me.
Maybe he should of started his campaign of change before he got caught. It’s like the bowmar’s campaigning for a change in baiting laws.
He makes a living off public land, he can pay extra permit fees.

 

[SirChooCH]

I did not listen to the podcast but read through what he claims on instagram which is a good back and forth from people calling him out and Brian's responses. Basically he said he has not "monetized" his videos on YT with paid ads since 2017 so his videos are not a commercial business. Yet when you watch his films, he constantly points to gear he uses with discount codes which I would say is an ad to monetize your film via affiliate purchasing..?

He also claimed he cant afford to go the Cam Hanes way and hunt private to film instead because he cant afford a guide, but then said he paid about $20k in film permits last year? How are you paying that much for film permits if it is not a business that returns that money with interest/profit?

 

[archp625]

I did not listen to the podcast but read through what he claims on instagram which is a good back and forth from people calling him out and Brian's responses. Basically he said he has not "monetized" his videos on YT with paid ads since 2017 so his videos are not a commercial business. Yet when you watch his films, he constantly points to gear he uses with discount codes which I would say is an ad to monetize your film via affiliate purchasing..?

He also claimed he cant afford to go the Cam Hanes way and hunt private to film instead because he cant afford a guide, but then said he paid about $20k in film permits last year? How are you paying that much for film permits if it is not a business that returns that money with interest/profit?

Because he is full of S@#$ He got caught and doesn't want to own up to it. He just wants to make excuses. My Dad always told me if you want to be a man you have to own up to your mistakes and move on/fix them. Do not make excuses.

 

[ttucci16]

Everyone needs to listen to the podcast in order to understand all the nuance involved. Calling him out for "making excuses" is a weak point to make. I don't know how many people have been involved with the Military/Feds, but they typically aren't very fun to deal with. Brian brings up a ton of valid points of the permit process being antiquated. I see this whole thread turning into a "Brian got where he is because of Aron Snyder, and since i like Aron therefore I dislike Brian".......weak. I would love the Rokslide Staff to chime in on their permitting process to film all the hunts/gear reviews/etc that are on Rokslide. I think the guy makes great videos and hope that he keeps making them.

 

[P Carter]

From a legal standpoint, one of the issues is that non-commercial films aren’t required to get a permit. So a non profit like defenders of wildlife could make a feel good, non-commercial film about how wolves are misunderstood, while a hunter can’t video a hunt and get YouTube advertising dollars. That violates the first amendment. I’ve always thought so and I’m glad to see that someone successfully made this challenge recently.

Also, the feds absolutely wield the permitting power to play favorites. Recently the forest service here said that it would take THREE YEaRS to process someone’s commercial use permit (non-film). That is basically a denial. That’s the sort of stuff that goes on with permitting.

 

[TheTone]

Anyone still got the “contract” Brian/mtn ops wanted with kifaru to use their packs during prime filming season? Wasn’t he wanting $40,000? I’d say he’s making plenty off his sponsors to afford paying for permits and certainly shows his films are a commercial enterprise

 

[Dos Perros]

How is it that Brian is the only one that can't make the process work? Randy grumbles a little bit, but I haven't ever heard a peep out of anyone else who puts out similar content.

 

[Mtnboy]

Not only did he film without a permit, he did it in a Wilderness, he also used a drone in a Wilderness. The process to get approved for a permit is even harder in capital W wilderness and has more stipulations. He knew this, he ignored it and now he is apparently making excuses and saying "poor me".

I have no sympathy and wish he would have got a bigger fine and had more consequences. Cheating the system and not buying permits is no different than the Bundy's not paying to graze on public land in my opinion.

Screw him, I won't even give him the benefit of a download to listen to his excuses. I personally can't wait until the economy takes a shit and a bunch of these 'influencers' have to get real jobs.

 

[Glory]

Gritty/Lampers makes some of the best films out there in my opinion.

Way to many regulations out there. Glad some people have the balls to buck the system and bring some issues to light, rather than just go with the flow. I have to admit I don’t listen to podcasts but enjoy the occasional show on YouTube.

 

[Mtnboy]

Gritty/Lampers makes some of the best films out there in my opinion.

Way to many regulations out there. Glad some people have the balls to buck the system and bring some issues to light, rather than just go with the flow. I have to admit I don’t listen to podcasts but enjoy the occasional show on YouTube.

"Buck the system". So you mean you're cool with just not paying and essentially being a 'welfare filmer' ?

What issues need brought to light? If you want to use a publicly owned resource to make your living you need to pay, no different than a grazing permit, outfitter permits or any other permit used to run a business on Public Land.

It's unreal to me anyone can still follow this guy, such a sell out and hypocrite....go back and listen to his original podcasts where he spends hours shitting on anyone in the industry who has sponsors....now he's one of the biggest sponsor whores out there.

I looked up the podcast to see who he used as a "yes man", of course he brings on a photographer to help bolster his own point of view, both of these guys pocketbooks benefit greatly if they don't have to pay fees.

Call is pathetic, companies associated with him should be embarrassed.

 

[Glory]

"Buck the system". So you mean you're cool with just not paying and essentially being a 'welfare filmer' ?

What issues need brought to light? If you want to use a publicly owned resource to make your living you need to pay, no different than a grazing permit, outfitter permits or any other permit used to run a business on Public Land.

It's unreal to me anyone can still follow this guy, such a sell out and hypocrite....go back and listen to his original podcasts where he spends hours shitting on anyone in the industry who has sponsors....now he's one of the biggest sponsor whores out there.

I looked up the podcast to see who he used as a "yes man", of course he brings on a photographer to help bolster his own point of view, both of these guys pocketbooks benefit greatly if they don't have to pay fees.

Call is pathetic, companies associated with him should be embarrassed.

I don’t know you, your background, or who/what you work for, so it’s impossible for me to know your motivations and why you have disdain for Call and what he does.

some people love big gov and lots of regulations, other people have to deal with them. I guess it depends on what camp you are in.

 

[Mtnboy]

I don’t know you, your background, or who/what you work for, so it’s impossible for me to know your motivations and why you have disdain for Call and what he does.

some people love big gov and lots of regulations, other people have to deal with them. I guess it depends on what camp you are in.

I have disdain because the guy is a huge hypocrite.

He damn well knew he needed a film permit, he was in a Wilderness for crying out loud. If you know the general area where he was and pay attention in the videos you can even tell they went to lengths so disguise they were in a Wilderness.

Now he got caught and he wants to claim ignorance and "poor me".....nah....F that, throw the book at him.

And this has nothing to do with "loving big gov and regulations" it just has to do with following the regulations that have been in place for years. His peers, such as Newberg, have no problem following the rules. What makes Call special and above the law?

 

[ManyBullets]

"Does he market products....yes....but in my opinion does it subtly."

If constant product pitches and discount codes followed by a million product shots is subtle I'd like to see what you call aggressive. He's one step from being a NASCAR driver or politician with all the sponsor crap.

Film quality is outstanding, personality is lacking IMO with constant product pitches detracting from the content.
Not sure I care too much about the permit thing, but don't bitch if you get caught. Pay the fine and move on. Gov't is probably in need of modernizing the permit process for these small YT film crews. Good luck with that since gov't is setup for the big guys to win, not the little sponsor whores on YT.