Great video never did jump on the 6.5 bandwagon myself.

[Mule3006Elk]

Now compare your 30/06 to a 33 nosler. Comparing them is silly right? That’s about the same case size ratio as a creedmoor to a 30/06.

The other thing you did is compare a shitty bc 6.5 bullet with a shitty bc 30 cal bullet. The benefit of the 6.5 is you can shoot high bc bullets without the recoil. It typically takes a 180+ grain 30 cal to match a 130 class 6.5 and 195+ to equal a 140+.

I shoot monos mostly so I wanted to compare something I'm familiar with that had similar S.D. that I would use on deer.

TBO, education for me so I appreciate the response. What bullet in 30 cal and weight would you compare to 6.5 CM and weight?

When you say 180 grain to match 130 grain 6.5 CM are you referring to S.D., ballistics, or other?

Silly comparison, maybe, but 6.5 CM fans do the comparison frequently. Honestly, trying to understand how the 2 compare. When I run numbers for each for a particular game animal, deer or elk, with a bullet suited for each, the 6.5 CM on drop/wind drift/velocity/energy is 2nd. I run the numbers to 500 yards which are, IMO, numbers that matter to me. With monos I focus on velocity at my max range.

Numbers may be different with high bc bullet like ELD-M and/or X.

Recoil the 6.5 CM is the better of the 2 no question.

 

[Fatcamp]

I shoot monos mostly so I wanted to compare something I'm familiar with that had similar S.D. that I would use on deer.

TBO, education for me so I appreciate the response. What bullet in 30 cal and weight would you compare to 6.5 CM and weight?

When you say 180 grain to match 130 grain 6.5 CM are you referring to S.D., ballistics, or other?

Silly comparison, maybe, but 6.5 CM fans do the comparison frequently. Honestly, trying to understand how the 2 compare. When I run numbers for each for a particular game animal, deer or elk, with a bullet suited for each, the 6.5 CM on drop/wind drift/velocity/energy is 2nd. I run the numbers to 500 yards which are, IMO, numbers that matter to me. With monos I focus on velocity at my max range.

Numbers may be different with high bc bullet like ELD-M and/or X.

Recoil the 6.5 CM is the better of the 2 no question.

Honestly, maintaining performance at distance with less recoil is the only reason I bought and shoot a 6.5CM. It doesn't matter to me one bit if ten inches of drop or drift difference exists.

Being able to shoot 50 rounds in a session is very cool. Or 20 and not feel like I've been in a fight. And that's coming from a guy who has killed half his animals with a .300WM.

 

[KenLee]

I also prefer the fit and form of xbolts in stock form over tikkas. Stock shape is better imo probably even with a vertical grip tikka. Recoil pad is the best I’ve ever had. Mag is actually perfectly flush which is nice for carrying. I can shoot my factory 300 wsm stainless stalker tighter than any factory tikka I’ve tried.

The trigger kind of sucks though and the aftermarket support really sucks. And that’s primarily why I have 4 tikkas and 1 xbolt.

I have no problem with the trigger but that may be because I had to hunt with shotguns only from age 4 until I bought my first rifle at age 11. 1960s and 70s shotguns and precise aim with slugs was seriously a form of art. I was a big kid. An inch shorter now than I was at 12.
When I buy used Browning a-bolts or x-bolts with lightened triggers that I can't get adjusted back up to 3 pounds, I put factory setups back in them.
Regarding the flush magazine, that also works for me putting the gun up on the window ledges of my hunting/shooting boxes and them balancing there...til I knock em off

 

[KenLee]

Not being rude, yet I asked for things objectively better. Everything you listed is a preference. X-Bolts are decent rifles. Objectively however, their triggers are more susceptible to problems with ice/snow/sand, their mags have more problems with debris, and there is very few threads in their scope mounting holes making it more prone to issue than it should be. Subjectively, the ones I’ve used have shot well, however they haven’t been as consistent in precision as Sako/Tikka barrels. They do have smooth actions that resist binding, their stocks are decently designed, and I do like their safety location.

They are not, objectively better though.

I'd argue with you on objective differences but no way I'm changing your mind. Just like you couldn't change mine.
I'm happy for you that you have rifles which you love, just as I love mine. I've had no problems with mine and I'm out with them probably an average of 80 days a year.

 

[KenLee]

That was the crappiset feeling rifle I ever held. Makes a Ruger American feel high dollar.

Did you ever hold a TC Venture?
Their stocks are actually decent. I bought 2 of those in compact model for kids and small ladies to use. They both group cheap blue box Power Shocks well under an inch.

 

[Fatcamp]

Did you ever hold a TC Venture?
Their stocks are actually decent. I bought 2 of those in compact model for kids and small ladies to use. They both group cheap blue box Power Shocks well under an inch.

I think it was the Compass I held. Went to hunt it and gave it a strong pass. I have heard they make a very straight shooting rifle.

 

[KenLee]

I think it was the Compass I held. Went to hunt it and gave it a strong pass. I have heard they make a very straight shooting rifle.

You are correct on the Compass stock being flimsy. Can't run a bipod or put any torque on it when shooting.
Crazy that TC was shut down during the early Covid gun buying boom.
Smith & Wesson owns TC. Basically locked the doors and walked away. $200 Compass now brings $4-500. $300 Venture now brings $5-700.
Single shot Encore or Contender frames and barrels doubled in price.

 

[wind gypsy]

I shoot monos mostly so I wanted to compare something I'm familiar with that had similar S.D. that I would use on deer.

TBO, education for me so I appreciate the response. What bullet in 30 cal and weight would you compare to 6.5 CM and weight?

When you say 180 grain to match 130 grain 6.5 CM are you referring to S.D., ballistics, or other?

I'm referring to BC, more on this below.

Silly comparison, maybe, but 6.5 CM fans do the comparison frequently. Honestly, trying to understand how the 2 compare. When I run numbers for each for a particular game animal, deer or elk, with a bullet suited for each, the 6.5 CM on drop/wind drift/velocity/energy is 2nd. I run the numbers to 500 yards which are, IMO, numbers that matter to me. With monos I focus on velocity at my max range.

Numbers may be different with high bc bullet like ELD-M and/or X.

Recoil the 6.5 CM is the better of the 2 no question.

You bring up a fair point. Lots of us tend to look at 6.5 creed ballistics based on the many high BC 6.5 bullets available. That is the use case that the cartridge was designed around but that doesn't mean that people/manufacturers only load high BC bullets in them. When it doesn't take advantage of the sleek 6.5 mm bullet options (like when using monos) things don't look as good on paper. Shooting light for caliber low bc bullets, a creed just doesn't have the case capacity to compete in the speed game. So if people judge a cartridge simply by trajectory it is unimpressive regardless. Folks in the precision rifle disciplines have long emphasized consistency, BC, and manageable recoil to shoot best because gravity (trajectory) is a constant. Most hunters lock onto trajectory numbers based on a long history of MPBR focus.

To generalize, a 6.5 creedmoor can push a 140 class bullet roughly the same speed as a 30/06 pushes a 180 class bullet. With the sleeker designed bullets, a 140 class 6.5 bullet typically has a slightly better BC than a 180 class .308 bullet. If two loads have roughly the same muzzle velocity but one has a little better BC and significantly less recoil, the hit percentages are going to favor that one.

If you look at barnes vor-tx long range factory ammo 6.5 cm 127 vs 30-06 175 or Hornady precision hunter 143 vs 30-06 178, you'll see that trajectory/velocity numbers are basically the same. The 30-06 has DOUBLE the recoil which makes a difference.

 

[woods89]

If I was going to shoot monos I would not want a CM. I'd go up in case capacity for more speed. The CM stands out with 130-140 softer bullets.

 

[wind gypsy]

$200 Compass now brings $4-500. $300 Venture now brings $5-700.

Now that's just silliness. You can buy a new stainless "KenLee Special" 6.5 creedmoor tikka for $720 right now. With a stiff plastic stock, slick as snot action, awesome/reliable factory trigger, and manufacturing tolerances tight enough to just spin on a prefit barrel of your choice and have it headspace correctly.

 

[Mule3006Elk]

I'm referring to BC, more on this below.


You bring up a fair point. I and many others tend to look at 6.5 creed ballistics based on the many high BC 6.5 bullets available. That is the use case that the cartridge was designed around but that doesn't mean that people/manufacturers only load high BC bullets in them. When it doesn't take advantage of the sleek 6.5 mm bullet options things don't look as good on paper. Shooting light for caliber low bc bullets, a creed just doesn't have the case capacity to compete in the speed game. So if people judge a cartridge simply by trajectory it is unimpressive regardless. Folks in the precision rifle disciplines have long emphasized consistency, BC, and manageable recoil to shoot best because gravity (trajectory) is a constant. Most hunters lock onto trajectory numbers based on a long history of MPBR focus.

To generalize, a 6.5 creedmoor can push a 140 class bullet roughly the same speed as a 30/06 pushes a 180 class bullet. With the sleeker designed bullets, a 140 class 6.5 bullet typically has a slightly better BC than a 180 class .308 bullet. If two loads have roughly the same muzzle velocity but one has a little better BC and significantly less recoil, the hit percentages are going to favor that one.

Good points as well.

Recoil is definitely an advantage.

Of all the available cartridges 6.5 CM gets the most attention and an array of responses positive/negative/neutral. After seeing this for yers, I too, finally thought to myself what gives and started running some numbers. Mostly out of curiosity and maybe some interest. LOL

140 grain ELM-M has a sectional density .287. I compared that to a 30-06 178 grain ELD-X which has a sectional density .268. Not the exact same bullet but very close sectional densities with different jacket thickness.

At 500 yards, both have exactly the same drop 48". Wind drift 16.5" for CM 19.2 for 30 cal. Velocity at 500 yards within 50 fps so a wash but 6.5 CM a touch faster. Energy goes to 30 cal by 322 ft/lbs. Bullet hole and wound channel would go to 30 cal. Recoil 6.5 CM.

At 750 yards which I don't shoot but to understands 6.5 CM benefits: CM drops by 3" less, CM wind drift 7" less, velocity spread increased to 80 fps with CM still faster, energy still favors 30 cal by 196 ft/lbs. Bullet hole and wound channel 30 cal. Recoil 6.5 CM.

I can see the benefits of the 6.5 CM in particular for the long range guys/gals. The wind bucking benefits are clear. As to your point, more accurate with lots of shots same day due to less recoil couldn't agree more. Just makes sense. Also benefits those who don't like or prefer to avoid higher recoil cartridges.

If you want a bigger hole, bigger wound channel, and not recoil sensitive, well 30 cal.

Not sure I'll change. I don't shoot a ton. Not recoil sensitive. BUT I can see where this cartridge has a definite niche. For me, I can see it as a great Pronghorn and Mule Deer rifle. Not sure if I would give it the nod over my 30 cal for Elk. I would feel more comfortable with a bigger hole and wound channel. Just my preference.

Thanks for the direction and helping me understand where to run my comparison!!

 

[KenLee]

Now that's just silliness. You can buy a new stainless "KenLee Special" 6.5 creedmoor tikka for $720 right now. With a stiff plastic stock, slicker as snot action, awesome and reliable factory trigger, and manufacturing tolerances tight enough to just spin on a prefit barrel of your choice and have it headspace correctly.

I'm sure not buying a Compass or Venture at those prices. Did sell a couple though .
Traded one for a nice 7x12 utility trailer.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Good points as well.

Recoil is definitely an advantage.

Of all the available cartridges 6.5 CM gets the most attention and an array of responses positive/negative/neutral. After seeing this for yers, I too, finally thought to myself what gives and started running some numbers. Mostly out of curiosity and maybe some interest. LOL

140 grain ELM-M has a sectional density .287. I compared that to a 30-06 178 grain ELD-X which has a sectional density .268. Not the exact same bullet but very close sectional densities with different jacket thickness.

At 500 yards, both have exactly the same drop 48". Wind drift 16.5" for CM 19.2 for 30 cal. Velocity at 500 yards within 50 fps so a wash but 6.5 CM a touch faster. Energy goes to 30 cal by 322 ft/lbs. Bullet hole and wound channel would go to 30 cal. Recoil 6.5 CM.

At 750 yards which I don't shoot but to understands 6.5 CM benefits: CM drops by 3" less, CM wind drift 7" less, velocity spread increased to 80 fps with CM still faster, energy still favors 30 cal by 196 ft/lbs. Bullet hold and wound channel 30 cal. Recoil 6.5 CM.

I can see the benefits of the 6.5 CM in particular for the long range guys/gals. The wind bucking benefits are clear. As to your point, more accurate with lots of shots same day due to less recoil couldn't agree more. Just makes sense. Also benefits those who don't like or prefer to avoid higher recoil cartridges.

If you want a bigger hole, bigger wound channel, and not recoil sensitive, well 30 cal.

Not sure I'll change. I don't shoot a ton. Not recoil sensitive. BUT I can see where this cartridge has a definite niche. For me, I can see it as a great Pronghorn and Mule Deer rifle. Not sure if I would give it the nod over my 30 cal for Elk. I would feel more comfortable with a bigger hole and wound channel. Just my preference.

Thanks for the direction and helping me understand where to run my comparison!!

Out of curiosity, why do you think energy matters?

 

[PNWGATOR]

I'd argue with you on objective differences but no way I'm changing your mind. Just like you couldn't change mine.
I'm happy for you that you have rifles which you love, just as I love mine. I've had no problems with mine and I'm out with them probably an average of 80 days a year.

“Love” isn’t a thing when it comes to a tool, especially a rifle.

Function is.

 

[Lwarner03]

I’ll just leave this here…

 

[Mule3006Elk]

Out of curiosity, why do you think energy matters?

Energy always matters. You can't harvest w/o energy. No way around it.
Modern projectiles ft/lbs is not the end all be all as it once was. But it does provide a unit of measure to which one can compare/contrast similar projectiles. No different than velocity, drop, wind drift, diameter, frontal surface, etc. I look at it but I collect/evaluate all available metrics.

 

[KenLee]

“Love” isn’t a thing when it comes to a tool, especially a rifle.

Function is.

How about an "extremely high level of confidence in and satisfaction with" ?
Will that work?
I've had 4 wives come and go since I started killing stuff with the 270 a-bolt that I still tote around and sits by my back door in case a quick need arises. Potential #5 better not ask me to chose between em. I love ole Black Betty.

 

[wind gypsy]

Good points as well.

Recoil is definitely an advantage.

Of all the available cartridges 6.5 CM gets the most attention and an array of responses positive/negative/neutral. After seeing this for yers, I too, finally thought to myself what gives and started running some numbers. Mostly out of curiosity and maybe some interest. LOL

140 grain ELM-M has a sectional density .287. I compared that to a 30-06 178 grain ELD-X which has a sectional density .268. Not the exact same bullet but very close sectional densities with different jacket thickness.

At 500 yards, both have exactly the same drop 48". Wind drift 16.5" for CM 19.2 for 30 cal. Velocity at 500 yards within 50 fps so a wash but 6.5 CM a touch faster. Energy goes to 30 cal by 322 ft/lbs. Bullet hole and wound channel would go to 30 cal. Recoil 6.5 CM.

At 750 yards which I don't shoot but to understands 6.5 CM benefits: CM drops by 3" less, CM wind drift 7" less, velocity spread increased to 80 fps with CM still faster, energy still favors 30 cal by 196 ft/lbs. Bullet hold and wound channel 30 cal. Recoil 6.5 CM.

I can see the benefits of the 6.5 CM in particular for the long range guys/gals. The wind bucking benefits are clear. As to your point, more accurate with lots of shots same day due to less recoil couldn't agree more. Just makes sense. Also benefits those who don't like or prefer to avoid higher recoil cartridges.

If you want a bigger hole, bigger wound channel, and not recoil sensitive, well 30 cal.

Not sure I'll change. I don't shoot a ton. Not recoil sensitive. BUT I can see where this cartridge has a definite niche. For me, I can see it as a great Pronghorn and Mule Deer rifle. Not sure if I would give it the nod over my 30 cal for Elk. I would feel more comfortable with a bigger hole and wound channel. Just my preference.

Thanks for the direction and helping me understand where to run my comparison!!

I think its pretty unlikely one would look at a wound from a 140 eld and say they wish they had more damage. I'd be surprised if a 30 cal barnes resulted in as much damage.

Lots of people aren't "recoil sensitive" but that doesn't mean they manage recoil well and/or wouldn't shoot more accurately with less recoil. There is much more to recoil than just being able to resist flinching.

 

[DangerRanger]

i can understand being annoyed by hype and fanboys of things, but to make a personal purchase decision based on other people annoying you instead of the needs you personally have is wild.

If a creedmoor fits your use case why the hell would what someone else acts like even factor into your decision? Just wild to me.

 

[Mule3006Elk]

I think its pretty unlikely one would look at a wound from a 140 eld and say they wish they had more damage. I'd be surprised if a 30 cal barnes resulted in as much damage.

Lots of people aren't "recoil sensitive" but that doesn't mean they manage recoil well and/or wouldn't shoot more accurately with less recoil. There is much more to recoil than just being able to resist flinching.

AND you seem very familiar with the 6.5 CM and projectiles. Do you like ELD-M or ELD-X for deer and weight? Same for Elk? Or is there another projectile you prefer for the above? Thanks