Good factual documentary on wolves

[Okhotnik]

Who would have ever guessed that lions kill elk, maybe even more elk than wolves, I mean other than the exact same results found in the Montana Bitterroot elk mortality study? Or that habitat and weather influence calf survival?

Its not all just the big bad wolf?

Fake news...

Elk calves stressed out by lack of habitat and inclement

Who would have ever guessed that lions kill elk, maybe even more elk than wolves, I mean other than the exact same results found in the Montana Bitterroot elk mortality study? Or that habitat and weather influence calf survival?

Its not all just the big bad wolf?

Fake news...

What do think about lion hunting with dogs as a means to control their expanding populations?

 

[BuzzH]

Elk calves stressed out by lack of habitat and inclement



What do think about lion hunting with dogs as a means to control their expanding populations?

What do you think about extremely low female lion quotas/trophy lion management pushed by houndsmen, and primarily targeting old male lions?

 

[Beendare]

[

What do you think about extremely low female lion quotas/trophy lion management pushed by houndsmen, and primarily targeting old male lions?

So since you are one of the guys pushing- what is the reasoning behind keeping a high predator population that competes with hunting opportunities?

Why not just use Hunters as the management tool that is cash positive?

Its obvious by your comments you are severely invested in this wolf reintro.....and I'm skeptical of anyone such as yourself doing these "studies" to justify their bias.

You can tell by my comments, I'm an economically feasible guy. Wildlife management is underfunded...and our #1 issue as I see it is retaining habitat. Wolves take away from both of those- a lose, lose.

Wolves in the sparsely populated north country of Canada and Alaska- great. Drop them into highly populated Colorado- thats just silly.

 

[Topo_trekker]

I don’t think anyone is pushing for high predator populations. The fact that he alluded to the study that points out we should be targeting female lions because it’s more effective for pop. control should be the clue there.

Reintro would be bad for CO if it is only impact-based management like they have setup already for migrating wolves. I will point out there are positives impacts as well as negative.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Okhotnik]

What do you think about extremely low female lion quotas/trophy lion management pushed by houndsmen, and primarily targeting old male lions?

And you refused to answer my question regarding hound hunting

Not surprised.

Take that refusal as a no you are against hound hunting to manage lion populations. Why wouldn’t you answer this question?


That’s my point. You talk constantly talk about the value of wolves and management plans ( that allow hound hunting, aerial shooting,long generous seasons for wolves, trapping , poison) in Montana and Wyoming and Idaho.

And yet all these management tools are outlawed in Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Washington, Oregon where the wolf count is close to 15, 000. And the numbers keep growing.Probably a lot more because there is no reliable method to count wolf populations.

Anti hunting groups lawsuits have really diminished lion hunting in Washington and Oregon where lion numbers are way over management objectives.
Of course hound hunting was shut down in Washington, Oregon and Lion hunting was outlawed in California.

I know hound hunters that shoot mature females but the get so much crap from anti hunters they are reluctant to do it. You do know that state game agencies discourage the taking of female lions?

What management methods will Colorado allow to manage wolves?
Trapping?
Hound hunting?
( allowed in other countries)
Aerial shooting?
Poison?
Hunting?

We both know the answer to this question

 

[BuzzH]

And you refused to answer my question regarding hound hunting

Not surprised.

Take that refusal as a no you are against hound hunting to manage lion populations. Why wouldn’t you answer this question?

I've hunted lions with hounds several times, and have killed a lion that a buddy of mines hounds treed. I've also trapped or shot every furbearer/predator but a wolverine (tried and saw one) in Montana when I lived there, lynx, fisher, otter, marten, beaver, skrat, mink, fox, bobcat, coyote, lion, black bear...you? Never did get a wolf, but they weren't off the list before I moved to Wyoming.

You also didn't answer my question regarding how the houndsmen in Montana have severely curtailed proper lion management.

That’s my point. You talk constantly talk about the value of wolves and management plans ( that allow hound hunting, aerial shooting,long generous seasons for wolves, trapping , poison) in Montana and Wyoming and Idaho.

And yet all these management tools are outlawed in Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Washington, Oregon where the wolf count is close to 15, 000. And the numbers keep growing.Probably a lot more because there is no reliable method to count wolf populations.

How is that my problem? Sounds like some folks in those states should get off their ass, like I had to do, and get control to the States. Nobody helped me and I didn't whimper on the net or ask for anyone's help. I drove across ID, MT, and WY and attended meetings, wrote, commented and DID something to get wolf control into the hands of the State I live in. For the record, ID, WY, and MT do not allow wolves to be taken via the hunting public with poison, or aerial gunned, or ran with hounds.

Anti hunting groups lawsuits have really diminished lion hunting in Washington and Oregon where lion numbers are way over management objectives.
Of course hound hunting was shut down in Washington, Oregon and Lion hunting was outlawed in California.

State issues...not my pig, not my farm. Hunter apathy and complacency has consequences...for the record, you can change State Statute...I've done it.

What management methods will Colorado allow to manage wolves?
Trapping?
Hound hunting?
Aerial shooting?
Poison?
Hunting?

We both know the answer to this question

Again, not my circus, not my monkeys...that's up to the people that live in Colorado. Its up to the hunting public there to make the decision for their State management plan. I'll help where I can if Colorado hunters ask, but I'm not going to lead the effort...its not my place to do so.

 

[BuckHunter73]

Good video, thanks for sharing. States should manage wolves

 

[BuzzH]

[



So since you are one of the guys pushing- what is the reasoning behind keeping a high predator population that competes with hunting opportunities?

Why not just use Hunters as the management tool that is cash positive?

Show me one time, in any comment I've made where I state anything about wanting to keep high predator populations. I'll save you the trouble, I never have. The goal of management is to keep populations viable and healthy whether deer, elk, moose, goat, sheep, black bear, lions, wolves, trout, walleye, song birds, game birds, whatever.

Cash positive to what? Sports fishing in every state is an economic drain on the GF departments, its not self funding at all. Neither is bighorn sheep, moose, or goat management in Wyoming either. Are you proposing that if those species don't pay for themselves and are not "cash positive" that we should drop management of those species? Seems that what you're saying.

Its obvious by your comments you are severely invested in this wolf reintro.....and I'm skeptical of anyone such as yourself doing these "studies" to justify their bias.

I'm not any more or less invested in wolf management than I am deer, elk, bear, lion, moose, sheep, goat, furbearer, etc. Like I've said before, I'm a facts guy...what I see on the ground, peer reviewed science, education, all hold more sway in how I view management of Natural Resources than the guy on the next bar-stool.

You can tell by my comments, I'm an economically feasible guy. Wildlife management is underfunded...and our #1 issue as I see it is retaining habitat. Wolves take away from both of those- a lose, lose.

Wolves in the sparsely populated north country of Canada and Alaska- great. Drop them into highly populated Colorado- thats just silly.

Wildlife management costs money, you can donate extra any time you want to the various GF agencies in every state in the U.S. You can ask for fee increases, you can lobby your legislature to provide funding, support groups that help defray wildlife management costs. I do all those things...you're welcome.

Not sure how wolves take away habitat...shopping malls, ranchettes, housing developments, roads, well pads, solar farms, wind farms, those things take away habitat.

 

[Beendare]

So I asked Googlle why we need wolves....figured I would get some impartial facts.

First link is to the very pro wolf site, Defenders of wildlife where they give a one paragraph answer to the benefit of wolves; [cut and paste]

"Wolves play a key role in keeping ecosystems healthy. They help keep deer and elk populations in check, which can benefit many other plant and animal species. The carcasses of their prey also help to redistribute nutrients and provide food for other wildlife species, like grizzly bears and scavengers. Scientists are just beginning to fully understand the positive ripple effects that wolves have on ecosystems."

Link;Defenders site

THATS^ IT!? HECK HUNTERS DO THAT. This sure exposes the Real motive of the pro wolf crowd.

Hmm, at this point I have to question whether the pro wolfies among us are getting any financial compensation related to this wolf reintroduction thing?


For full disclosure; All I've ever received from wolves is some hairy scat on the sole of my hunting boots.

...

 

[Middleofnowhere]

I’m in California and have worked on the repeal of Prop 117 (mountain lion hunting ban). The antis got a huge victory in our once great state, and they took an important management tool away from the professionals. IMO, the ban has been a complete failure. Our gov’t workers, on the taxpayer dime, have to kill as many “problem” mountain lions each year as hunters ever harvested during the prime of lion hunting in our state.

California banned the use of hounds. California is proposing to end all trapping and bobcat hunting. These “bans” are very harmful to the wildlife the antis say they are trying to protect.

Wolves are back, their population is growing and they will be spread further into the lower 48 by natural means as well as “reintroduction”. Proper management is necessary, extermination talk, etc. is not helpful.

 

[wymtnpounder]

For the record, ID, WY, and MT do not allow wolves to be taken via the hunting public with poison, or aerial gunned, or ran with hounds.

Actually WY does allow this in the predator zones.

Not sure how wolves take away habitat...shopping malls, ranchettes, housing developments, roads, well pads, solar farms, wind farms, those things take away habitat.

In many areas of NW WY elk no longer winter because of wolf predation, habitats still there just inhabitable

 

[chukar_chaser]

15,000 wolves in the Great Lakes area!!!!???!! That seems exceptionally high compared to most published numbers.

 

[BuzzH]

Actually WY does allow this in the predator zones.

In many areas of NW WY elk no longer winter because of wolf predation, habitats still there just inhabitable

Public hunters and trappers can use poison? Don't think so.

Can you give specifics on where elk no longer winter?

 

[wymtnpounder]

Public hunters and trappers can use poison? Don't think so.

Can you give specifics on where elk no longer winter?

Aerial gunning and dogs for sure not positive on poisoning.
How about the Lamar river in Yellowstone, and that's not even where I'm referring to

 

[Okhotnik]

Public hunters and trappers can use poison? Don't think so.

Can you give specifics on where elk no longer winter?

More lies and misrepresentations from Buzzh and his anti hunting eco groups

 

[Beendare]

Seems to me poison was outlawed many years ago.


I've seen elk utilizing wide open high country sage flats as bedding areas in the last 10 years or so where they never did in past decades. I asked IDFG biologists about it and they confirmed; Elk utilize the wide open [and exposed to the elements] spaces as a buffer from wolves.

They told me this negatively affects the elk as the less insulated bedding cover saps energy from them at a critical time and is harmful to their calves. ...another unintended consequence of wolf reintro.

____

 

[COHunter33]

Great Video!