General Fitness Preparation vs CrossFit

[wyodan]

OR why not CrossFit two days and get your endurance the other 5

Either or. My experience with crossfitters is that they all think you need to only CrossFit. I’m not at their gym to become the best at exercising, I’m there to get better for the things I like to do. That bugs them. I do enjoy competitive exercising though.

 

[JohnDough]

I decided CrossFit was not for me when I realized I out performed CrossFiters randomly doing workouts with them in the military. At the time I ran and all my strength training was push-ups, pull-ups, dips, and crunches/flutter kicks. I found it interesting and concluded that CrossFit must not actually training people well if I was able to out do them at their own game.

I think gyms are over rated, unless you specifically want to increase lift weight or muscle bulk. But for moving your own body, just use your body and keep it simple.

That isn't a good matrix. I just started CF again after taking 8 years off from it, and I perform very near the top or at the top at my gym for lifts...but I do not typically even rank hardly on the WOD's. That said, you are right about mobility, calisthenics is legit.

 

[Marbles]

That isn't a good matrix. I just started CF again after taking 8 years off from it, and I perform very near the top or at the top at my gym for lifts...but I do not typically even rank hardly on the WOD's. That said, you are right about mobility, calisthenics is legit.

These were WOD type workouts I believe (don't know enough to be sure).

In the end, moving of any kind is better than not moving, so people should do what they find motivating and keeps them moving.

 

[Watrdawg]

I did regular gym strength workouts for most of my life, I'm 60 now, I always thought I was in pretty good shape. When I was younger I could run 6 minute miles forever it seemed. Then I started doing Crossfit about 8 years ago and quickly realized that, at least aerobically, I was nowhere near being in shape. It took me at least 6 months of doing Crossfit to get to a point where I could get through a WOD and have to have someone drag me to the truck to get home. Regardless, Crossfit is not the end all be all. I still do both a regular strength workout plus Crossfit. On top of that I also ruck with a weighted vest and ride my Mtn. Bike. I think it's better to maintain a general all around high fitness level and then when need be specialize for whatever you may need to. Being one dimensional isn't a good thing.

 

[Beanyray]

When I first started hunting out west I was just running for exercise (ran a half marathon that year), well my buddy shot a cow elk and I offered to help him on the packout. I realized very quickly I wasn't physically ready for that. It was a strength/core/stablility issue for me. So in the years to follow I added mostly lower body strength exercises to my regime. That helped get me up and down the mountains better but one year I killed a bull and had to quarter and pack it out myself. This was when I realized how deficient I was in upper body strength. Since then I tried to do more total body workouts.

Fast forward to this year after returning from the September elk mountains my wife decided she wanted to join our local Crossfit box and asked me to go with her. The first day was a partner WOD and the coach put me with an older gentleman, I thought ok this will be easy. Another guy walks up and asks me "are you in shape?" which I replied " I think so" , well that workout absolutely smoked me, I was toast afterward. I did follow up with the guy who asked if I was in shape and told him that what I meant to say was no, i'm not in shape but that older gentleman is hahaha.

So i'm 2 months into Crossfit and I can definitely feel my overall strength has greatly improved. It has also shown me my weak areas (core, lower back, traps). I am still running on the weekends and I'm sure i'll be doing weighted rucks before next September to supplement. But I can say from my short 2 months that Crossfit is good for someone who feels stuck in a fitness rut and wants to shake up your routine.

 

[Speaks]

While there might not be a ton out there on ideal fitness for mountain hunting there is a ton of info on ideal fitness for mountaineering which seems quite directly applicable. "Training for the Uphill Athlete" and "Training for the New Alpinist" are good reads on the topic.

 

[mtwarden]

^ lots of Zone 2 training and muscular endurance just isn’t sexy enough

 

[P Carter]

^ lots of Zone 2 training and muscular endurance just isn’t sexy enough

I just listened to the Evoke Endurance podcast, where Scott Johnston interviews Ruth Croft, a high-level ultrarunner from New Zealand. And they were basically like, "Meh, nothing special about the training, just a ton-ton-ton of volume and strength training twice a week. The difficulty is in doing it all, not figuring out fancy things to do."

 

[mtwarden]

I just listened to the Evoke Endurance podcast, where Scott Johnston interviews Ruth Croft, a high-level ultrarunner from New Zealand. And they were basically like, "Meh, nothing special about the training, just a ton-ton-ton of volume and strength training twice a week. The difficulty is in doing it all, not figuring out fancy things to do."

True that! Not sexy, but works

 

[awcopeland]

I think that it's pretty amazing that you can get so many opinoins on what program to do, when really the number one thing to take into account is what you eat. It doesn't really matter what you do for training. Unless you want to run ultras, you don't need hours and hours of zone 2, 3, 4 training. Do what you enjoy doing and will keep you doing it. Do it at a rate and volume, and intensity (individually specific) that avoids injury.

You can't outwork a poor diet. If you're 15, you might think you can, but you can't. Try to eliminate as much processed food as possible. Good rule of thumb: it you left the food on the counter at room temperature and it doesn't spoil within 7-10 days tops, then try to avoid it.

Cam Hanes, Dan Staton, Ryan Lampers all do 3 very different training methodologies, but they all kill piles of animals. Guess what, they all are very conscious about what they put into their bodies.

 

[chukwithak]

I know people singing the praises of Crossfit and I know people injured from it.

I’m sure the group dynamic is motivating and I acknowledge the benefit of coaching but I don’t believe things like box jumps or deadlifting 135 for reps for time are what I need to be doing at almost 58 years old. If you’re 25 years old, you might benefit from those things.

I would argue against this 100%. Science indicates that the older we get, the more we actually need to do smaller reps and heavier weights. As we age our hormonal levels change as well as our bone density, and this is directly correlated at lifting heavier. Also, think about Grandma and Grandpa, who are on the treadmill every day. They walk their asses off, but that doesn't create glute or core strength. When you need to turn the 1000lb elk over, how are you going to pull that elk over? Low rep, heavy (for you) strength training is critical. ESPECIALLY as we get older. More reps = more joint damage. Stress from weight on a joint is a factor, but if you work your way up, your joints will be able to adapt and manage.

 

[chukwithak]

I decided CrossFit was not for me when I realized I out performed CrossFiters randomly doing workouts with them in the military. At the time I ran and all my strength training was push-ups, pull-ups, dips, and crunches/flutter kicks. I found it interesting and concluded that CrossFit must not actually training people well if I was able to out do them at their own game.

I think gyms are over rated, unless you specifically want to increase lift weight or muscle bulk. But for moving your own body, just use your body and keep it simple.

This has to be directly correlated to the programming you dropped in on. No mention of any gymnastics, or weight-related movements. Again, CrossFit is about the gym, coaches, and programming. A bad coach with bad programming = poor results. A good program + consistent training = positive results. I've been around CrossFit since 2007. I've trained Ultra runners to NFL players, and I come from a high-level military background. Crossfit is simply what it sounds like, cross-training fitness. Maybe look into another gym or an online program to follow. There are some very good one's out there.

 

[chukwithak]

One of the best "CrossFit" workouts I do on a weekly basis to prep for the season is modified Chad. Chad is 1000 steps up to a 20" box with a 45-pound pack for men, for time.

Take this workout and break into smaller chunks. I got a 50lb seed bag and filled it with sand. It's a lot more comfortable than anything else and easy to toss if you trip. A pack, and you're going down.

10 step ups take about 40-45 seconds. When you get on top of the box, STAND ALL THE WAY UP. Dont be a lazy ass and engage your glutes at the top.

Start off just doing 200 total step ups. Set a 5 minute EMOM timer. Do 50 step ups in the 5 minutes. How ever fast you get done, remaining time is rest. Do that for a couple week, then move to 250. Then 300, 400, 500 etc.

Once you get to 400 or 500, you can then increase 50 step ups in 5 minutes, to 100 in 10 minutes.

Rather than resting, you can use the remaining time to do something else like light spin on a bike, or plank holds. Bench press. Use the downtime to an advantage but something maintainable.

Get creative with it. You can also get a smaller box. 20" box is great for quad and glute strength, but when we're in the steeps, the 20" box is more leg drive then we really use. 12" - 16" is fine, but you'll get more strength out of the 20" box, and strength makes heavier packs lighter.

The reason for the bag on the shoulders is core stability and strength. If you don't train with weight over the top of your core, you're not training core stability with weight, which is what you use when packing with weight.

 

[mtwarden]

So are you saying you like CrossFit?

 

[chukwithak]

So are you saying you like CrossFit?

Yes. And I will state that I like Crossfit because they hold an athlete accountable for a range of motion, and mobility and encourage lifting based on 1 rep max percentages.

They use backed science and data for their measurements when creating working %.

1rm is based off YOUR ability. Meaning your mobility, your strength, your ability. As all of these increase, so will your 1RM. As you plateau or fatigue, your 1RM will change as well.

What wont change is the % of your 1rm max and work you should be able to do.

I hope that makes sense.

Crossfit also uses workouts (Hero wods, The girls, etc) to measure fitness.

If you're not into the competition side, everything can be scaled for the general pop. You don't need to barbell snatch. You can alternate DB snatch with is great for general pop.

It comes back to the athlete, athlete's goals and communication, programming and coaching, but generally crossfit has a lot of back science that proves it's worth.

Hyrox does not hold any accountability for form or mobility.

 

[mtwarden]

Just wanted to be sure

 

[chukwithak]

I attached a research paper I did for nursing. It's about endurance training with an elevated heart rate and the complications that are arising. The fiancee is a top-end ultra runner, and this encouraged me to look into it. I was seeing a lot of complications amongst the team. She now trains crossfit 3x a week and runs 3x a week.

 

[mtwarden]

Zone 2 for the win; you’ll se that a lot in this forum- for good reason

 

[P Carter]

I would argue against this 100%. Science indicates that the older we get, the more we actually need to do smaller reps and heavier weights. As we age our hormonal levels change as well as our bone density, and this is directly correlated at lifting heavier. Also, think about Grandma and Grandpa, who are on the treadmill every day. They walk their asses off, but that doesn't create glute or core strength. When you need to turn the 1000lb elk over, how are you going to pull that elk over? Low rep, heavy (for you) strength training is critical. ESPECIALLY as we get older. More reps = more joint damage. Stress from weight on a joint is a factor, but if you work your way up, your joints will be able to adapt and manage.

I think he’s saying the same thing you are - as you get older, there’s no need to do box jumps and deadlift 135 for reps. (Ie, light but high volume.) Or the other “frantic”, competitive CrossFit atmosphere. That increases injury risk without sufficient corresponding benefit.

Instead, focus strength training where it needs to be: heavy weight, low reps, straight line progression, perfect form, intentional controlled movement, back off when you need to (don’t push through fatigue or injury to hit an arbitrary “rx”, etc.)

 

[Kurts86]

I think an important baseline is that if you want to be good at carrying loads around in the mountains the best thing to do is carry loads around in the mountains. It’s the principle of specificity taught in exercise physiology 101. I think the question gets a lot harder for guys who don’t live in the mountains. If you live in a mountain town and are training at a CrossFit gym you are headed down the wrong direction.

I laugh a little when people talk about CrossFit and endurance. CrossFit is very focused on anaerobic and lactic acid (less than 3 minutes) training not aerobic training of which hunting is 99.99% aerobic. Coming from a running and bike racing background they aren’t really close. Cross fit is running for the guys that would otherwise just be doing weight lifting. It’s football practice for adults not cross country practice. I think overall running is a better use of non specific training than cross fit but they are such separate groups and athletes that either done regularly will leave you much better than average. I’d much rather take a 2:45 marathoner into the mountains than local CrossFit gym burpee champion. The runners have a much bigger aerobic capacity and a much better power to weight ratio.

Crossfit creates accountability and that is its greatest value. It gets people to do something day in and day out which is 90% of the battle. It’s just not an efficient use of time if you are training to move weight around in the mountains.

Running isn’t totally without its issues, you definitely can get complacent with lateral movements, strength and flexibility. You definitely have to do some interval or faster run days or you can really plateau. The HIT aspect of CrossFit does have some value because I would argue a lot of recreational endurance athletes, especially those not training to race aren’t pushing themselves fast enough and are running the same pace and distance most days. The good high level runners vary their training and recovery pace quite significantly relative to the average jogger in your neighborhood.

Mountain biking, or really biking in general are worse than running for mountain prep besides the reduced risk of repetitive use injuries that running incurs. It isn’t weight bearing and the time commitment for the same fitness is 2x what running is. Most bike racing training focuses on going from 80% threshold effort to 5 to 30 second burst of speed to cover breaks, sprint and get over obstacles which makes it less applicable than running. Cycling is also worse than running at promoting leg stability, core and upper body strength. I will say cyclists are on the whole are a lot better than runners at learning to refuel because of the length of typical races/training which does apply to hunting but marathon and ultra runners definitely understand nutrition.