Gear questions and shaving an ounce here and there

[Chris in TN]

I need some gear input on multiple fronts but all within the theme of shaving weight and avoiding the sort of redundancy I don't need while still having the sort that I do need. Feel free to add your own questions:

-IIRC the tent we're taking (1st rifle/southern CO) weighs about 5.5#. It has a rain fly. Given proper sleeping bags, if the Wx before we hike into the mountains calls for warmer/dryer days, would you pull the fly and leave it in the car? I want a tent no matter what, for personal comfort and sense of security (I know tents aren't secure; I also know my 13 year old girl doesn't want to sleep under the stars in bear/cat country). Given 0-5 degree bags and a dry tent with a bathtub type floor, at what lowest forecasted temp should I think the extra layer of rainfly is worth having to help stay warm? If there's rain the forecast that's a no-brainer. We have good pads and with two of us in a smaller tent with our clothes dry and spread over our bags I tend to think we'll be OK down to perhaps 20-25 degrees if the wind is mild and we're on a leeward site. Obviously, if I miss this and we can't sleep comfortably we'll have to go back to the car for more covers the next day, which would stink, but if it's needed I can. We'll have extra camp stuff in the car specifically in case we need to car camp while packing meat, like if we bring a load of meat to the car with camp still up on the mountain.

(ETA: I realize the dangers of being cold. If the wx calls for conditions beyond our gear we'll not be camped, or be camped closer to the car, or in the car, or in town)

The above brings up another question: I need a reliable and relevant weather forecast. I have learned in the past that if you're on the mountains and the weather forecast down in town calls for a couple inches of snow and 30 degrees, you might see 20 degrees and a foot of snow. I don't want to do that again. So are there reliable high-elevation weather forecasts for SW Colorado? Do I just watch the nearest ski resort area forecasts? I realize that snow is *generally* rare and usually melts quick before October ~20 but I have also been stranded (once for a day, once for maybe half a day) in CO and have also drove out of camp bouncing with all four wheels spinning wildly to make it out before the next inch of snow stopped us.

(ETA: All three of those snow experiences were between 10-20 and 10-25 of different years)

-I have always brought paracord anytime I'm more than a few hundred yards from the vehicle. But how much? Two people, no more than 3-4 nights tops in camp, doubtful we pull and remake camp more than once, and only one elk tag to work with. I usually bring 20' or so when deer hunting but this isn't that. I want enough for camp, emergencies, and maybe having to move a dead elk out of a ditch so I can debone. I also have a couple of small pulleys I intend to bring for that.

How many layers of water filtration? I'm expecting to be able to find water on the mountain though I'm aware the entire region is dry right now and I'm watching that closely. But I have two filtration setups, one for each of us, we'll both have two 1-liter smartwater bottles for daily storage, and we'll both have iodine tablets for backup. Is this overkill? We'll have bottled water for emergencies but if it's *THAT* dry we'll likely be forced to hunt closer to the car so we can reach the bottled water. Or tote a case of it in on a separate trip. I really don't like that idea.

-Earplugs for sleeping? Will it drive me crazy not being able to hear all the woodsy noises that keep me awake when camping?
-Melatonin for camping nights. Yes or no? I tend to stay awake cataloging noises even if I'm in my front yard, so I expect the first night on the mountain my mind will go into overdrive, then I'll sleep well the second night. A small dose of melatonin helps me but it also makes me groggy at 4am and I don't need that.

-Meat saws. My thoughts were two saws - so that we each have one for emergencies, but also so that we can use one sharp saw for camp and have one sharp saw for elk butchering, if we need to saw horns off. My plan is, if she shoots one, to remove the whole head, drop the jaw, and bring the whole head out for a euro mount, unless it's really big, at which point I'll cape for a mount (the wife will be thrilled with another elk in the barn, I'm sure) and saw the horns off. But do I really need *two* folding 7" to 9" saws? I don't really see a problem using a not-perfectly-sharp 9" folding saw to cut off a skull cap, right? I plan to do very minimal camp sawing but obviously won't know until we're there, what that might look like. At the end of the day, if I plan to debone the animal, I simply can't see how I need to use a saw for anything but removing the skull cap/antlers. So I'm leaning towards one saw, with a spare in the vehicle.

-Knives: My daughter will carry her own good quality folding knife for emergency use. I always tote a sharp pocketknife. I'll have a sharpener. I have a quality knife I've deboned or butchered a lot of animals with and I'm comfortable with it even on an elk. I realize that a swap-blade knife might be faster than sharpening, but I'm content with what I have. I just want to know - other than two pocketknives and one suitable deboning knife, how many more? One more? No more?

I think I have a handle on game bags and a tyvek sheet for a work surface. We'll have two headlamps - separate from our daily red-lamp hunting lights. Extra batteries. Everything should take the same batts so we can bring spares without excessive weight. Extras in the car.

Butchering gloves weigh nothing so I'll bring several sets.

Firestarter: We'll have a jetboil type stove with a built in igniter for 'cooking'. I realize that if there's still a drought when we get there we can't do campfires. But if we get snowed in unexpectedly and needed an emergency fire I have two bic lighters for each of us, one for the bino harness, one for the pack. We also each have a magnesium shaving stick. I'm thinking that four lighters between two of us is ridiculous already and I could leave the magnesium sticks at home. Right?

(Yes, my kid can use it)

We'll have one IFAK and I know how to use the stuff in it. I'm trying to get my daughter into a STB class before the trip but she's been exposed to some of that already. We both could use a refresher. Our plan is to be together 99.9% of the time. Do we need a second full IFAK?

I want to get a small, *LIGHT* backpack to tote our daily stuff like the IFAK and our 'kill bag' with cutlery, game bags, etc, and daily needs like TP and water bottles and whatever else won't fit in our chest packs. This pack will likely be used for a shooting rest if needed. But it needs to be fairly small and light. Am I wrong on that? Should we just use our regular backpack every day and just cinch it down so stuff doesn't rattle? I could see stuffing one sleeping bag into it for the bulk if she needs it for a rest - on typical day hunting hikes those extra few pounds wouldn't be a hindrance.

Three rounds in the rifle, up to nine on the buttstock carrier, extra loaded 3-round mag in my chest pack in case she needs it. Spare ammo in car. I can't imagine shooting more than 4x. Right?

I'd like to think I can halfway safely answer most of the above questions for myself, but I'd like to hear from people who have more experience. I'll have duct tape and zip ties and wipes and paper towels and stuff of that nature. I'm not trying to make a 'be sure I packed everything' thread out of this, more of a 'don't pack more extra gear than you need' thread.

 

[TaperPin]

It rains all the time in Colorado if it’s forecasted or not. Even in the middle of summer without a cloud in the sky early in the day, I’ve had a single cloud drop a considerable amount of hail and sleet - enough moisture that anyone without rain gear was cold and soaked. That’s what I would plan for.

 

[Chris in TN]

It rains all the time in Colorado if it’s forecasted or not. Even in the middle of summer without a cloud in the sky early in the day, I’ve had a single cloud drop a considerable amount of hail and sleet - enough moisture that anyone without rain gear was cold and soaked. That’s what I would plan for.

We plan to have raingear (full suits for both of us, but lightweight and left in packs unless needed) but I hadn't thought about pop-up showers at night. That would suck and that pretty much tells me I need the rain fly. Thank you.

 

[Poser]

I need some gear input on multiple fronts but all within the theme of shaving weight and avoiding the sort of redundancy I don't need while still having the sort that I do need. Feel free to add your own questions:

-IIRC the tent we're taking (1st rifle/southern CO) weighs about 5.5#. It has a rain fly.

(ETA: I realize the dangers of being cold. If the wx calls for conditions beyond our gear we'll not be camped, or be camped closer to the car, or in the car, or in town)

You should bring the rain fly regardless of the forecast.

The above brings up another question: I need a reliable and relevant weather forecast. I have learned in the past that if you're on the mountains and the weather forecast down in town calls for a couple inches of snow and 30 degrees, you might see 20 degrees and a foot of snow. I don't want to do that again. So are there reliable high-elevation weather forecasts for SW Colorado? Do I just watch the nearest ski resort area forecasts? I realize that snow is *generally* rare and usually melts quick before October ~20 but I have also been stranded (once for a day, once for maybe half a day) in CO and have also drove out of camp bouncing with all four wheels spinning wildly to make it out before the next inch of snow stopped us.

(ETA: All three of those snow experiences were between 10-20 and 10-25 of different years)

I've had a couple of "big" snow years during 1st rifle. Multiple feet of snow. Personally, I always check a couple of different forecasts and, if you are close to a ski resort, their forecasting can give you a good frame of reference.
In Durango, we have a local amateur weather forecaster who is the best source for all things in the immediate area. We also recently got a local weather radar ve. relying on the one in Grand Junction. I was fishing a alpine lake this summer and there was a guide there with 2 clients. He had weather alerts for the specific area set from the local radar station sent to his InReach.

That being said, I just check all of these sources before my trip, come prepared for the anticipated conditions and don't worry about the forecast once I'm hunting. I usually know there may be or will be weather moving in on X day. October snow can be very wet snow. Dealing with wet snow can be closer to deal with rain than other snow conditions.

-I have always brought paracord anytime I'm more than a few hundred yards from the vehicle. But how much? Two people, no more than 3-4 nights tops in camp, doubtful we pull and remake camp more than once, and only one elk tag to work with. I usually bring 20' or so when deer hunting but this isn't that. I want enough for camp, emergencies, and maybe having to move a dead elk out of a ditch so I can debone. I also have a couple of small pulleys I intend to bring for that.

If you are going to bring pulleys to make a geared haul system, you'll need more than 20 feet of cord. There are also lighter and stronger options than 550 cord, though 550 cord is expendable so there's that. Really depends on how you intend to use it.

How many layers of water filtration? I'm expecting to be able to find water on the mountain though I'm aware the entire region is dry right now and I'm watching that closely. But I have two filtration setups, one for each of us, we'll both have two 1-liter smartwater bottles for daily storage, and we'll both have iodine tablets for backup. Is this overkill? We'll have bottled water for emergencies but if it's *THAT* dry we'll likely be forced to hunt closer to the car so we can reach the bottled water. Or tote a case of it in on a separate trip. I really don't like that idea.

2 methods to filter water should be fine. High country water sources are very reliable.

-Earplugs for sleeping? Will it drive me crazy not being able to hear all the woodsy noises that keep me awake when camping?
-Melatonin for camping nights. Yes or no? I tend to stay awake cataloging noises even if I'm in my front yard, so I expect the first night on the mountain my mind will go into overdrive, then I'll sleep well the second night. A small dose of melatonin helps me but it also makes me groggy at 4am and I don't need that.

Colorado is eerily quiet at night.

-Meat saws. My thoughts were two saws - so that we each have one for emergencies, but also so that we can use one sharp saw for camp and have one sharp saw for elk butchering, if we need to saw horns off. My plan is, if she shoots one, to remove the whole head, drop the jaw, and bring the whole head out for a euro mount, unless it's really big, at which point I'll cape for a mount (the wife will be thrilled with another elk in the barn, I'm sure) and saw the horns off. But do I really need *two* folding 7" to 9" saws? I don't really see a problem using a not-perfectly-sharp 9" folding saw to cut off a skull cap, right? I plan to do very minimal camp sawing but obviously won't know until we're there, what that might look like. At the end of the day, if I plan to debone the animal, I simply can't see how I need to use a saw for anything but removing the skull cap/antlers. So I'm leaning towards one saw, with a spare in the vehicle.

You don't need a "meat saw" for any animal. Even heads are surprisingly simple to remove with a small knife. If you do need to saw individual antlers or just remove a skull cap, a wood saw blade will work. It will snag more than a bone saw, but it will work. I've done it a number of times. I'd just bring 1 saw.

-Knives: My daughter will carry her own good quality folding knife for emergency use. I always tote a sharp pocketknife. I'll have a sharpener. I have a quality knife I've deboned or butchered a lot of animals with and I'm comfortable with it even on an elk. I realize that a swap-blade knife might be faster than sharpening, but I'm content with what I have. I just want to know - other than two pocketknives and one suitable deboning knife, how many more? One more? No more?

No more.

I think I have a handle on game bags and a tyvek sheet for a work surface. We'll have two headlamps - separate from our daily red-lamp hunting lights. Extra batteries. Everything should take the same batts so we can bring spares without excessive weight. Extras in the car.

Butchering gloves weigh nothing so I'll bring several sets.

Firestarter: We'll have a jetboil type stove with a built in igniter for 'cooking'. I realize that if there's still a drought when we get there we can't do campfires. But if we get snowed in unexpectedly and needed an emergency fire I have two bic lighters for each of us, one for the bino harness, one for the pack. We also each have a magnesium shaving stick. I'm thinking that four lighters between two of us is ridiculous already and I could leave the magnesium sticks at home. Right?

yes.

(Yes, my kid can use it)

We'll have one IFAK and I know how to use the stuff in it. I'm trying to get my daughter into a STB class before the trip but she's been exposed to some of that already. We both could use a refresher. Our plan is to be together 99.9% of the time. Do we need a second full IFAK?

Probably not, but the FAK should be a readily available, established location.

I want to get a small, *LIGHT* backpack to tote our daily stuff like the IFAK and our 'kill bag' with cutlery, game bags, etc, and daily needs like TP and water bottles and whatever else won't fit in our chest packs. This pack will likely be used for a shooting rest if needed. But it needs to be fairly small and light. Am I wrong on that? Should we just use our regular backpack every day and just cinch it down so stuff doesn't rattle? I could see stuffing one sleeping bag into it for the bulk if she needs it for a rest - on typical day hunting hikes those extra few pounds wouldn't be a hindrance.

Just use you full size pack. On a hunting trip, you already have a crazy amount of gear. Brining a second pack is excessive.

Three rounds in the rifle, up to nine on the buttstock carrier, extra loaded 3-round mag in my chest pack in case she needs it. Spare ammo in car. I can't imagine shooting more than 4x. Right?

Highly debated topic and wildly varying opinions. I personally carry 5 rounds total for 1st rifle. Some people carry more, some less. I think about it like this: "What is the most amount of times I could realistically miss a shot and still have enough ammo to make a kill?"

 

[TaperPin]

We plan to have raingear (full suits for both of us, but lightweight and left in packs unless needed) but I hadn't thought about pop-up showers at night. That would suck and that pretty much tells me I need the rain fly. Thank you.

It sounds like a fun trip.

If you don’t find any good local weather forecasts it can be really helpful to watch western US weather maps each day for fronts and moisture that might be passing through so nothing catches you off guard. It can look confusing at first, but watching weather go from the west coast to the east starts to make sense after a few days. Weather will move over one to two states each day. All the small fronts that pass through have some wind associated with them and usually minimal moisture, but a front with a lot of moisture behind it can keep you in the tent for a day. That’s happened often enough I now pack a small paperback book to read, and tire chains in the vehicle if weather is possible.

I bring a tiny am/fm radio and ear buds to drown out forest sounds if need be - usually I don’t put the buds in and just rest them on the pillow. Normally wind in the trees puts me to sleep, but on a completely still night even a lone coyote walking by sounds huge in the dried vegetation. lol

 

[Chris in TN]

Thank you guys. That's all incredibly useful stuff to know. I'd like to get that Durango guy's name. We're not hunting in that specific area but his wx would likely be way more relevant than one from the GJ area.

Colorado is eerily quiet at night.

That's good to know and I can't put into words how much I look forward to 'hearing' it.

-I'll skip the second saw. Leave it in the car. I'll leave the extra knives at home with the magnesium sticks. One IFAK but kept on one of us at all times. I may throw a TQ on each of our chest packs too. I'll plan on using just the one pack and we'll likely make the smaller of the two do double duty as a day pack if it's big enough to fit me. If not I'll just use mine, cinched down. I might skip the extra magazine for her rifle. In 35+ years I've fired 3 shots maybe 3-4 times when dealing with a single animal. A full magazine plus what's on the stock ought to be enough to either kill something or run off every elk on that mountain. She's 3 for 3 shots on deer and she's practiced more this summer (offhand, seated, on a pack, over crossed sticks, and prone) than ever and made solid hits at 480 yards (prone) the other day. I'm hoping for much closer, of course. We'll have an inreach and I intend to set up the alerts like you mentioned.

It sounds like a fun trip.

If you don’t find any good local weather forecasts it can be really helpful to watch western US weather maps each day for fronts and moisture that might be passing through so nothing catches you off guard. It can look confusing at first, but watching weather go from the west coast to the east starts to make sense after a few days. Weather will move over one to two states each day. All the small fronts that pass through have some wind associated with them and usually minimal moisture, but a front with a lot of moisture behind it can keep you in the tent for a day. That’s happened often enough I now pack a small paperback book to read, and tire chains in the vehicle if weather is possible.

I bring a tiny am/fm radio and ear buds to drown out forest sounds if need be - usually I don’t put the buds in and just rest them on the pillow. Normally wind in the trees puts me to sleep, but on a completely still night even a lone coyote walking by sounds huge in the dried vegetation. lol

I've been watching weather out there pretty much daily since July now. I still watch the forecasts in places we've been in years past. I worked outside a lot of years and it became a habit, I guess, but it started young: when I was a kid I can remember being at Christmas dinner at grandpa's house and him and my dad and an uncle all sitting there watching The Weather Channel and they mentioned Steamboat Springs, which we'd drove through a few weeks earlier on my first western deer hunt, having something like eight feet of snowfall at the time. That sounded bizarre to me and 36 years later it still does. I don't know how y'all live in that stuff. Our weather here generally does the same thing you describe - most fronts come from Texas, more or less. If I see a front build up in Texas and move to Arkansas I'll likely get rain off it the next day or two.

We will have chains and decently aggressive a/t tires. I hate the idea of installing chains but I don't want to spring for the fancy new snow-rated tires and chains are cheap insurance. Two trips ago I needed them and didn't have them. Last trip I had them and didn't need them. I much prefer that.

You mentioned the wind in the trees. When I was younger my dad had a farm with a lot of deer. By the time he sold it the pine plantations were big enough that on later-season hunts on windy days you could sit and listen to the wind in the pines all afternoon. I took a lot of 3pm naps listening to that sound and sort of hope to hear a bit of it this fall. I sort of figured that might not even be a thing anymore with all the beetle kill, though. Scouring all these mapping websites looking at aerials with all the beetle kill down everywhere is honestly really sad. It also has me second guessing where to put our camp. I'm leaning towards finding one of those little half-acre meadows you can see on the aerial photos and trying to get at least 100' from any dead spruce. Knowing myself it'll be the meadow the elk like to feed in.

 

[Poser]

Thank you guys. That's all incredibly useful stuff to know. I'd like to get that Durango guy's name. We're not hunting in that specific area but his wx would likely be way more relevant than one from the GJ area.

Durango Weather Guy

Where the locals go, because the locals know!

durangoweatherguy.com

 

[*zap*]

Being able to stay warm and dry is pretty important.

 

[rogerdoger]

Do you have an in reach? You can get weather anytime with that device.

I just do one water filter and tablets as backup, backup backup is boil water.

Only one saw if any.

In the past I have rolled up my camelback pack and used that for the day rather than bring my backpacking pack.

I like multiple lighters, usually two. I also pack a few cotton balls with Vaseline, great fire starter.

I do 60’ and 40’ paracord with 3 carabiners. Should be enough to hang anywhere, not sure if that is needed outside of griz country.

Have a great trip, take some notes on your phone on what works and doesn’t. You can always refine the setup every year.

 

[Marbles]

Keep the rain fly. Ditch extra knives, saws, Etc. Keep your daughter comfortable so she enjoys it. Better a little heavy and too warm than cold at night in this case. I'll suffer to save weight from my own gear, but not when taking family.

 

[Chris in TN]

Being able to stay warm and dry is pretty important.

Yes. Hence the thread.

Do you have an in reach? You can get weather anytime with that device.

I just do one water filter and tablets as backup, backup backup is boil water.

Only one saw if any.

In the past I have rolled up my camelback pack and used that for the day rather than bring my backpacking pack.

I like multiple lighters, usually two. I also pack a few cotton balls with Vaseline, great fire starter.

I do 60’ and 40’ paracord with 3 carabiners. Should be enough to hang anywhere, not sure if that is needed outside of griz country.

Have a great trip, take some notes on your phone on what works and doesn’t. You can always refine the setup every year.

We'll have an inreach. We probably won't do cotton balls but will have trioxane tabs with our lighters and we'll have coconut oil (food) and paper towels, etc.

I think I'm going to put at least 75' of paracord in the kill bag and two 25' lengths in each main pack or maybe even chest pack. Even with a couple of pulleys 75' is a pretty long run. I can't imagine needing more, which is sort of the bar I'm going for here. The only field deboning I've ever done was a whitetail and it was honestly dirt simple but I was able to start on it while she was still warm and the skin pulled right off. I don't want to end up taking an hour to move an elk or trying to butcher ultra slow because it's in a ditch, if it falls in a bad spot I want to be able to make a plan and execute it and get to butchering while the carcass is still warm and easy to work with. I also don't want to cut myself because I'm working in an awkward position.

Keep the rain fly. Ditch extra knives, saws, Etc. Keep your daughter comfortable so she enjoys it. Better a little heavy and too warm than cold at night in this case. I'll suffer to save weight from my own gear, but not when taking family.

That's what I'm thinking and that principle has guided my entire summer preps. I'm trying to be mentally and physically ready to do more and endure more than she can, not so I can run her into the ground and wear her out to 'test' her, but so that I can easily handle as much as she is willing to handle, and do all the behind the scenes things to make it enjoyable for her. I'm essentially her guide for this trip and it's a big set of shoes for me to try and fill and keep her comfy and happy.

 

[rogerdoger]

75 will be good, that should be enough for a 4 to 1, you may want longer than 25’ for the anchor, that will only allow you to get up 12.5’ off the ground if you plan on hanging meat.