Gear List for surviving indefinitely, 75 Pound limit

[slim9300]

Thread said no family to deal with?

I guess I missed that. Somehow it's hard for me to ignore reality. So would your plans stay the same if you couldn't leave your family?

 

[fillthefreezer]

knock off Lathrop and Sons early on to stockpile a stash of Lowa Hunters you will probably need boots eventually.

(adding to the to do list)

 

[Hardstalk]

I guess I missed that. Somehow it's hard for me to ignore reality. So would your plans stay the same if you couldn't leave your family?

At it again? I usually dont get controversial and probably wont respond to your response on this. However Isnt this entire concept/thread based purely on fiction? I had to chuckle at the "its hard for me to ignore reality" part of the post. Whats "reality"on a topic like this?

I could say if shtf I would ride a unicorn into the a safe zone and be protected by clouds. Because the odds of shtf and insane warfare in america is about the same odds as having a unicorn as a pet incase of emergency.. Am I the only one who sees things from this point of view?

Sorry for the incoming thread jack.

 

[rodney482]

I guess I missed that. Somehow it's hard for me to ignore reality. So would your plans stay the same if you couldn't leave your family?

Yes dramatically

 

[rodney482]

There will be a time when SHTF in this country.

Show me 1 country it has not.

History repeats itself, might not be this year or in the next 20 but it will happen again.

At it again? I usually dont get controversial and probably wont respond to your response on this. However Isnt this entire concept/thread based purely on fiction? I had to chuckle at the "its hard for me to ignore reality" part of the post. Whats "reality"on a topic like this?

I could say if shtf I would ride a unicorn into the a safe zone and be protected by clouds. Because the odds of shtf and insane warfare in america is about the same odds as having a unicorn as a pet incase of emergency.. Am I the only one who sees things from this point of view?

Sorry for the incoming thread jack.

 

[Hardstalk]

There will be a time when SHTF in this country.

Show me 1 country it has not.

History repeats itself, might not be this year or in the next 20 but it will happen again.

True statement. I agree. When broken down to the simplest of terms. A day only has 24 hours. History repeats itself daily. No doubt about it. Yesterday at this time it was the same time. But, were you doing the exact same thing at this second you did yesterday? Your reading this post. It didn't exist yesterday. This post changed your routine dramatically. Possibly even the outcome of your day. To say history repeats itself is a very vague statement. The reason 90% of news is bad news is because we are genetically designed to be attracted to the flight or fight mentality. America doesn't want to see a litter of Dalmatian pups on the news. We want to see a building on fire and picture ourselves pulling out the entire crew that was stuck in the inferno. Im under the impression some people cant sift thru the b.s at times. Apocalypse stores are booming. Gun dealers cant keep things in stock. Does anyone not see the amount of recently released end of the world movies as a retail scheme that alot of people are seriously buying into?

Being prepared is truly understandable. Mad cow disease, internet goes down, no electricity, all very plausible. However trying to debate reality on a fictional current topic is a bit off the charts.

 

[tstowater]

I am a survival expert, have been through some of the toughest schools known to man and a 5.56 would be the choice of many in a "world ending" situation. If you were talking about surviving in the wild, a 22 would be a great choice.

As Aron pointed out, there are two ways of answering the OP. I was looking at the "get away from everyone approach" (as were some of the others, mainly the 22lr advocates) and others were looking at the "fight for your life angle". Makes a huge difference on type of weapon that you may want. My FIL takes the position that he wants an M1 and a bunch of ammo with the theory that he will shoot the AR boys first and then take their AR's. Interesting theory, hope we don't need to find out if it will works. Obviously his theory would be based on longer range killing capability (subject to debate of course) of the M1.

 

[slim9300]

At it again? I usually dont get controversial and probably wont respond to your response on this. However Isnt this entire concept/thread based purely on fiction? I had to chuckle at the "its hard for me to ignore reality" part of the post. Whats "reality"on a topic like this?

I could say if shtf I would ride a unicorn into the a safe zone and be protected by clouds. Because the odds of shtf and insane warfare in america is about the same odds as having a unicorn as a pet incase of emergency.. Am I the only one who sees things from this point of view?

Sorry for the incoming thread jack.

I wish I had adequate time to respond to this but I don't. I will however give a brief attempt. You and Ironman are clearly two peas in a pod when it comes to your naïvety. To equate a SHTF situation to sheer fantasy just proves my point. You are a typical American with zero understanding of history and human nature. You live in a bubble. I'm fine with that because you will be no threat to me if this worst case scenario ever happens, but I will attempt to give you a brief understanding of what could happen very easily in this country.

SHTF conditions could happen on a wide scale (ie. world wide), medium scale (ie. regionalized in the US) or small scale (say your local city). It could be caused by an unbelievable number of factors such as economic collapse, natural disaster, terrorist attack, foreign attack, etc. Some specific examples of the above would be: a large scale nuclear attack, a large scale plague, $6-8 gasoline, an EMP attack from say China, another Great Depression, etc. Regardless of what could happen, society is incredibly frail (clearly more than you realize), especially in the urban areas where the average person has no ability to survive for more than two weeks on what they have. I read a frightening stat the other day that more than 2/3 of this country are dependent on the government for some kind of food assistance. Also, reference what happened in NO during Katrina if you don't believe me.

Either way, when society breaks down (it will happen to the US eventually, hopefully not for hundreds of years) there will be civil unrest that could be short term or could be long term. People will die in great numbers like they have throughout history and eventually order will return (let's hope).

Keep hiding in your bubble and thinking me and people like me are crazy. I will never claim the above situation is going to happen, but it seems likely enough to me that I will continue to prepare on a moderate level. In the end the only thing I may have 'wasted' on preparation for SHTF is money and my kids will inherit a shit load of guns and ammo (amongst other gear). I don't see these items depreciating any time soon either.

 

[Hardstalk]

IF this worst case scenario ever happens,

SHTF conditions COULD happen on a wide scale,

It COULD be caused by an unbelievable number of factors

COULD be short term or could be long term.

. I will NEVER claim the above situation is going to happen,.

I modified your post a bit. With things that stick out TO ME.

Im an extremely open minded individual. Some people don't have that luxury. Myself and Ironman can agree with you all day. I can disagree with you all day. This topic is really intriguing to me. Its not so much the topic as it is. Why do people overly concern themselves with this topic, and why doesn't anyone have legitimate fact to base that it is reality? Slim shoot me a p.m so the o.p can get his questions answered. Id really like to touch more on the subject. Even if you don't consider yourself a radical I would like to learn more about why you feel the way you do. Its obviously something your passionate about sharing. Im all ears. Leave the ego at the door and lets bullshit.

 

[Brandon Pattison]

This thread was meant for all gear, not just weapons. I agree with both sides of the .22 vs 5.56 debate. THE most efficient round for taking small game is the .22. Google it if you don't believe me. In fact, it is the pound for pound tough to beat. If I have to deal with MEN that want to take my things essential to survival or hurt me then they will get a 30-round mag in the face. In fact, it is hard to argue with a recurve but a single weapon might not be what is needed (2 or 3 might be). If you are trying to escape and evade or just avoid being seen, a bow is tough to beat due to it's quietness. However, if I come upon an ambush I want the M4.

Snares are light and tough to beat. I trap and I know I can take more game and fish with snares and gill nets, respectively, than most of you guys can with a firearm or fishing pole. Plus they are not target indicators (sound and movement).

The part regarding no family was meant in regards to a large number of people dying off from some sort of disease and the full FEMA camps for those not lucky enough to avoid detection. Don't count on your cabin or cottage or likely spot in the bush to be free from other like-minded individuals. They will come and they will loot. Count on it.

This is more like you have to plan on longer-term sustainability with no chance of resupply. What is in addition to your 5-10 day bivy gear list to make your pilgrimage somewhat bearable? Kind of like The Road, I Am Legend, Revolution, and The Book of Eli all rolled into one. A lot of people feel that there is something bad coming. When the Twin Towers were hit the backpackers that had a bag somewhat ready (albeit New Orleans as well) were in WAY better shape for getting away from the strife. Like John J. Rambo said, "I believe the mind is the best weapon."

Obviously our list would change with regard to family but if it came down to you just digging your own grave (hooch/fighting hole) nightly and eating dirt how would you do it? I initially put 50# as the maximum but in reality you might be lighter or heavier and that is why I put it up at 75#.

When I was on the rifle and pistol team in the Marines I had the conversation of a pistol vs. a shotgun vs. a rifle on the battlefield. Gunner Hill said, "Pistol." I asked why and he said a gun would be lying there to pick up or he would just shoot one of us and take it.

 

[Aron Snyder]

I'm not taking sided, but it's not out of the question for America to turn into a 3rd world country.

If that happens, you'll be fighting for your life and your families life....now way around it! If you say "I'll just go to the hills and hide", that may work and is what I'll do, but you are gong to be crossing a lot of danger areas on the way! Those danger areas will be filed with people tryng to survive themselves and they will do ANYTHING to keep themselves and there own families alive. If you add looters, scavengers, and whatever else you could come up with, the most heavly armed will have the best chance.

If we had to fight the Taliban on even terms (no major tech advantage), we would've had serous problems, as they were fighting in tennis shoes with shitty weapons. That's not to say we don't have world class warriors fighting for America, as we do, but America as a whole isn't as tough as 3rd world countries. Most of the people we fight have been dong so since birth! We as American's have been playing Nintendo, stuffing our faces with Mcdonalds and Burger King

 

[Slim Jim]

You guys are all sounding like doomsday preppers. Haha

I have a guy at work that all he talks about is the world going to shit and what I would do to protect my family. I'm not going to spend my little time on this rock worrying about that or cancer or a heart attack or whatever else can kill me. Enjoy the short time we have here.

 

[ScottR_EHJ]

I will echo some Aron's sentiments, although I have never been in combat I have been to several third world countries.

I took a trip a couple of years ago to Ethiopia and Rwanda to spend time in orphanages. You want to find a group of people who are tough, well there you go. Most of the orphans in Rwanda were a product of the 90's genocide. The stories of what took place there are unimaginable. The will to survive from some of the people was crazy. One story was of a young girl who watched relatives turn on her Dad and literally hack his arms and legs off. They intentionally killed him that way so he would die a slow death. Sadly, things like this are common place when the circumstances turn people on each other.

I watched as two of the older orphans butchered a cow. We would be embarrassed to know how much meat they took off of that thing compared to what we are legally required to pack off the mountain. We have it easy in relative terms compared to these circumstances.

Ethiopia was a whole other world compared to Rwanda. We visited a group of children there who grew up in the trash dump. They literally had to hide at night from hyennas and compete with them for food. Humans scavenging is a reality of survival, they don't get the luxury of go bags or anything that would help them survive.

I have some more stories, but I think this illustrates the point fairly well.

 

[cmeier117]

This is a very interesting topic, I like to here what people like Aron have to say since they have seen it first hand. Some countries like Israel have their teachers go to school with Rifles on their backs etc... I just cannot fathom it but have been talking to the wife for years about atleast moving to a better state like Montana or Idaho. I honestly think if a SHTF situation happens in America and I don't mean from a Hurricane or natural disaster like Katrina it will happen very quickly and possibly over night. But if you want to see what and how people will act like, just look at Katrina? You had looters and people going nuts. It also didn't help that the Police were taking peoples guns away. But that is a hole other topic. I would take an ar-15 or Ruger 1022. But the Ar-15 would be my top choice with a 1-6 power optic. Then shelter and minimal clothing and a weeks worth of food and just kill and scavenge the rest.

 

[Brandon Pattison]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwELajFteTo

It is coming. Now go crush yourself with P.T.

 

[Brandon Pattison]

I have been in 10 other countries, most of which were shitholes. We, as being educated in this country, are smart enough to figure out how to get what we need. It might take a week of no food but we will end up like those countries and most likely worse. If you take the average American and starve them for ONE day. They think that they are dying. That is commonplace in other countries. Look at the 1992 LA riots.

 

[Hardstalk]

Franklin, Aron & slim9300 do you all have military exp? I realize Aron does im just curious if that is the root of our seriousness or disconnect? I have never had military exp and wonder if thats the reason I dont get too involved in this topic as a whole. I realize most branches of military really stress preparedness and maybe its just due to different life experiences we have had?

 

[Nick Muche]

Franklin, Aron & slim9300 do you all have military exp? I realize Aron does im just curious if that is the root of our seriousness or disconnect? I have never had military exp and wonder if thats the reason I dont get too involved in this topic as a whole. I realize most branches of military really stress preparedness and maybe its just due to different life experiences we have had?

Have you ever spent anytime in a 3rd World Country? If you haven't, you should go there just for the experience, it is eye opening to say the least... You will then understand what Aron, Slim and Franklin are talking about.

 

[Hardstalk]

Have you ever spent anytime in a 3rd World Country? If you haven't, you should go there just for the experience, it is eye opening to say the least... You will then understand what Aron, Slim and Franklin are talking about.

I have not. Im far from exposed. It very well could be ignorance on my behalf. Im pretty easy going and don't deny being naive. But I also have been pushed to a fight or flight mentality more than once on a couple extreme real life occasions. And understand that you can be as prepared as you want, in the long run you wake up going "wtf happened to the plan" thats the greatest edge I see with military training in random circumstances. Its the ability to control your mind state. Not your belongings.

 

[Mike7]

I think anyone who works as a 1st responder and many military people, realize the importance of being prepared. Natural disasters (volcanoes, solar storms, floods, droughts, pandemics, etc.) and man-made disasters (economic collapse, nuclear accidents, etc.) will continue to happen just as they always have. The only thing we have control over is whether or not we prepare at all. Some don't prepare out of a belief that all will always come out fine, some because of limited resources, and some out of laziness.

I have seen a lot of veterans with PTSD. It usually has less to do with what happened to them by the time I see them, and instead more to do with survivor's guilt or guilt about feeling like they could have been better prepared to save their buddy...wishing they would have paid better attention in first aid class, or second guessing tactical decisions, etc.

As a parent and husband, I would prefer not to be the one feeling guilty that my whole family is starving or dead only because I didn't take a few precautions...precautions that are cheap and easy, and which I thought were reasonable, but I was just too lazy to follow through with getting them in place. No different than insurance, easy to ignore until it is needed.