Future of High fence hunts and experiences in Texas....

[Cliff Gray]

new episode up. this one pulled me a little outside my wheelhouse and i enjoyed it for that exact reason.

Brian's got a background a lot of you will recognize. tons of backcountry time, sheep hunting, all the remote stuff. But he also works in the exotic hunting business down in Texas. We got into what's actually going on in Texas on the exotic wildlife front, which was eye opening on its own. The intriguing part is where it is all headed. Brian is adamant texas is gonna become a serious destination, competitive with south africa. big claim, but he makes a real case for it.

like anything in this corner of our world there is some controversy baked in

 

[Rich M]

It is already a destination for folks who want certain african species without going to africa.

 

[S.Clancy]

The purpose of a destination hunt (Africa, Alaska, whatever) is 90%+ about the experience, <10% about the animal.

The types of people that will go to Texas as a "destination" for high fence hunts are the same people that "vacation" on cruises.....

 

[MuleyFever]

The purpose of a destination hunt (Africa, Alaska, whatever) is 90%+ about the experience, <10% about the animal.

The types of people that will go to Texas as a "destination" for high fence hunts are the same people that "vacation" on cruises.....

Reminds me of reading about someone saying they didn't like Costa Rica. Turned out they were in an all inclusive and never left the resort.

 

[Weldor]

Did'nt the Texas ranches help restock Africa with species that were hurting? better genetics from Texas? Seems I read that years back. Been hunting down there for more than a decade, it is interesting to see all the Afican species on the ranch. We don't hunt them but sure is cool to see them in person.

 

[Alpine406]

I didn't buy his take on an AK sheep hunt being the same to a high fence TX hunt, because the AK guide knew where the sheep was, took him to the valley where the sheep was, etc. Apples to oranges, as there is no guarantee on that AK sheep hunt being a slam dunk - weather, wind, sheep behavior, etc. vs. a high fence hunt where a nearly 100% success rate is part of the sales pitch. It felt more like his attempt to validate the TX destination marketing spin.
Call me cynical, but high fence has a bad rap for valid reasons - it strips away the experience of hunting to a commodity purchase one buys off the menu. The more $$$, the bigger the horns or rarer the animal. It is in a similar light as guided climbs on Everest. Way too many rich dorks with big egos and small amounts of self-preservation are short-roped up Everest to the tune of $100k, all for bragging rights. The Sherpas are the stars there, not some oil tycoon or trust fund betty who paid for the summit photo.

I don't see the appeal of whacking a kudu or Cape Buffalo in TX; I wonder how many 'hunters' tell the story of how they stalked it almost 300 yards before making the shot....in TX, and not Africa.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I didn't buy his take on an AK sheep hunt being the same to a high fence TX hunt, because the AK guide knew where the sheep was, took him to the valley where the sheep was, etc. Apples to oranges, as there is no guarantee on that AK sheep hunt being a slam dunk - weather, wind, sheep behavior, etc. vs. a high fence hunt where a nearly 100% success rate is part of the sales pitch. It felt more like his attempt to validate the TX destination marketing spin.
Call me cynical, but high fence has a bad rap for valid reasons - it strips away the experience of hunting to a commodity purchase one buys off the menu. The more $$$, the bigger the horns or rarer the animal. It is in a similar light as guided climbs on Everest. Way too many rich dorks with big egos and small amounts of self-preservation are short-roped up Everest to the tune of $100k, all for bragging rights. The Sherpas are the stars there, not some oil tycoon or trust fund betty who paid for the summit photo.

I don't see the appeal of whacking a kudu or Cape Buffalo in TX; I wonder how many 'hunters' tell the story of how they stalked it almost 300 yards before making the shot....in TX, and not Africa.

Counterpoint: I don’t really consider it hunting if I don’t find the animal myself. And being led to its lair or usual territory and being told “look over there” doesn’t count (to me). The challenge with most animals is finding them and then getting within range.

I don’t really consider it hunting if the guide does much more than allow or facilitate access to the space.

Your analogy with mountain climbing is apt. Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay worked as a team to climb Everest. Both were accomplished mountaineers. A lot of the folks who have done it since are just looking for a false sense of accomplishment.

Some dentist who whacks a Cape Buffalo might as well be in Texas as South Africa or Namibia or Zimbabwe. As long as the animal is wild and free ranging within reason, what difference does the location make? It doesn’t have to be able to migrate from Texas to Canada and back to be “wild and free-ranging.”

Paying for the animal happens one way or another no matter how you look at it.

 

[Tmac]

A surprising number of African hunts are high fence. Often very large blocks, but high fenced none the less. A very common and “affordable” hunt type in S. Africa as I understand it.

 

[BBob]

No matter how hard you try to make Texas high fence “Hunting” hunting it’ll never ever be the same “Hunting” as it is on open public grounds. I’ve been to Texas, I’ve experienced this type of hunting and it isn’t the same, never will be. Let’s just call it what it is.

Oh, and I’ll never go high fence hunting in Texas ever again. It’s not for me.

 

[Cliff Gray]

No matter how hard you try to make Texas high fence “Hunting” hunting it’ll never ever be the same “Hunting” as it is on open public grounds. I’ve been to Texas, I’ve experienced this type of hunting and it isn’t the same, never will be. Let’s just call it what it is.

Oh, and I’ll never go high fence hunting in Texas ever again. It’s not for me.

I actually don't think that Brian was trying to make the point that they are the same in the interview. He acknowledges that even he personally prefers the free-range wilderness experience. I think his point in comparing the two, heavily guided hunts versus high fence hunts, is to look at the similarities they have economically. Guys are paying for a more controlled outcome in many of these cases. I don't know that I fully agree with his entire perspective, but I do acknowledge it is a reasonable comparison.

 

[whoop]

high fence and guided can be real similar if they have places to escape and are not baited. i have never hunted either one. i like that they both exist, especially guides. i'm tickled to hear them on podcasts. they're straight out of the 80's with their wallop, 30-06's and bullet energy.

 

[Tick]

My opinion. Glad we can all have one. Every property is different. Type of fence is only one factor. Guided vs DIY, public vs private access, animal population, property size, and habitat can have much more influence on a hunt than a type of fence.

My experience on a large hf property hunting whitetail. With tens of thousands trail cam pictures I pick out about 50 bucks to kill a year. Average years we kill about 50% of the targeted bucks after hunting hard for 4 months. Some bucks take several years to kill. Some are only seen with trail cam or helicopter surveys and die of old age. Most years we kill a few old bucks without any prior knowledge they were there.
Another property, with hunting and several helicopter netting flights it took 3 years to remove a small oryx herd 100%. A big white animal is still elusive with thick brush and large acreage.

 

[Weldor]

Just like New Zealand that most rave about, those huge stags are mostly high fence , they just don't take clients near the fence lines. What about American bison, Turner Ranch some places in New Mexico are over 400,000 acres. They have fences maybe not as high but Bison don't jump that high. LOL. All a matter of ones perspective. In reality hunting in a guide's exclusive area or lease is the same. The general public usually is not there.

 

[Reburn]

Did'nt the Texas ranches help restock Africa with species that were hurting? better genetics from Texas? Seems I read that years back. Been hunting down there for more than a decade, it is interesting to see all the Afican species on the ranch. We don't hunt them but sure is cool to see them in person.

Yes.
Dama gazelle have been sent back to africa.
Arabian oryx have been sent back to the middle east.

Dama are critically endangered but You can hunt them in Texas legally since they are captive bred. There are 10x more dama in Texas then are left in Africa. Unfortunately they will probably go extinct in the wild.

Sadly there are animals in Texas that will go extinct in the wild and then they will only be in Texas and be huntable. Once they are classificed extinct you can hunt them as you choose.

 

[Weldor]

Yes.
Dama gazelle have been sent back to africa.
Arabian oryx have been sent back to the middle east.

Dama are critically endangered but You can hunt them in Texas legally since they are captive bred. There are 10x more dama in Texas then are left in Africa. Unfortunately they will probably go extinct in the wild.

I've seen those on the ranch we hunt, very cool animal.

 

[Reburn]

I've seen those on the ranch we hunt, very cool animal.

It makes me sad they will go extinct in Africa but happy they they have good value here stateside so they will continue to be bred here.

 

[Cliff Gray]

Not to get too woo woo on this, and I wish it would have come up more clearly in the interview, maybe it's a discussion to have with another guest.

Anytime I have somebody on as a guest from, let's call it, the "high fence world," I have a little bit of self reflection, and particularly as I read comments and people's perspectives on this topic across all the social media platforms I think about it more. Maybe this is as I've hunted more, maybe as I've guided more, because I think I'm as guilty as anyone of it. But as I've grown as a person and a hunter, I've realized that within some level of ethical bounds and the legality of things we agree to as a community of hunters, or just as a population, I think having goals about how you go about hunting is a good thing. Maybe specific species you want to hunt at some point in your life, maybe certain sizes of species under x, y, z circumstances. I'm a huge fan of those goals. I have them myself, no doubt about that. And I think it's internally a good thing to have those.I don't think it hurts us, even in our own mind, to compare ourselves to others, as long as we have context for what their hunts are like, what challenges those hunts have, the difficulty or whatever you want to call it. I think that's okay to do internally. it's a good motivator. We're just beings that want to achieve, and achieve better and greater things.

The challenge with hunting is that a lot of us want to make it an external scoreboard. If we're being honest, we want other people to see certain species, certain types of hunts, certain sizes of animals to represent our greatness, or where we sit in the pecking order. this is an evolving thought, but I think that's actually hurtful to ourselves and our community of hunters. And honestly it doesn't make any sense, because there's a million different variables that go into hunts that equate to difficulty, challenge, all of that. That's something I get out of these discussions. Maybe trying to do that a little bit less, and just focus on my own shit a little bit more.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Not to get too woo woo on this, and I wish it would have come up more clearly in the interview, maybe it's a discussion to have with another guest.

Anytime I have somebody on as a guest from, let's call it, the "high fence world," I have a little bit of self reflection, and particularly as I read comments and people's perspectives on this topic across all the social media platforms I think about it more. Maybe this is as I've hunted more, maybe as I've guided more, because I think I'm as guilty as anyone of it. But as I've grown as a person and a hunter, I've realized that within some level of ethical bounds and the legality of things we agree to as a community of hunters, or just as a population, I think having goals about how you go about hunting is a good thing. Maybe specific species you want to hunt at some point in your life, maybe certain sizes of species under x, y, z circumstances. I'm a huge fan of those goals. I have them myself, no doubt about that. And I think it's internally a good thing to have those.I don't think it hurts us, even in our own mind, to compare ourselves to others, as long as we have context for what their hunts are like, what challenges those hunts have, the difficulty or whatever you want to call it. I think that's okay to do internally. it's a good motivator. We're just beings that want to achieve, and achieve better and greater things.

The challenge with hunting is that a lot of us want to make it an external scoreboard. If we're being honest, we want other people to see certain species, certain types of hunts, certain sizes of animals to represent our greatness, or where we sit in the pecking order. this is an evolving thought, but I think that's actually hurtful to ourselves and our community of hunters. And honestly it doesn't make any sense, because there's a million different variables that go into hunts that equate to difficulty, challenge, all of that. That's something I get out of these discussions. Maybe trying to do that a little bit less, and just focus on my own shit a little bit more.

Well said, Cliff.