Fur Friendly 17 Cal Bullets?

[4090Sharps]

I've been calling off and on for predators for the better part of a year (mostly cold) calling for mountain lions and bears. Pretty much the only animal that shows up with any consistency is gray fox. I have yet to shoot one since that's not what I'm targeting, but that's going to change... Among my industrial sewing machine collection sits a Bonis fur sewing machine that I'd like to put to use.

I'm picking up a 17-556 barrel from KAK Industry, with the hopes of having a more fur friendly rifle. However, just about everywhere I have read online for a fur friendly bullet recommends the now-discontinued 25gr Berger Match HP and Hornady HP.

What 17 caliber bullet are fur hunters using now?

The ballistics for the 25gr Hornady Vmax look great, but I'm concerned about them being a bit too explosive on the entrance.

 

[iamthenick]

I use .17 hmr for foxes, i can see wanting something bigger in lion country tho.

 

[TxLite]

I’m fixing to start using my 17hmr for coyotes just based on proximity to neighboring areas. It’s roughly 800 yards to the nearest house but I’m concerned about my 556/6.5 Grendel deflecting/passing through and traveling further than I’d like. My research has led me to 20gr Cci gamepoint or 20gr Hornady xtp, but obviously you’re in a much different velocity bracket. At your velocities they may be way too much.

 

[4090Sharps]

Thanks for the feedback so far! There's a good chance I'll pack a shotgun for closer shots.

 

[MTSLW]

I use the 32gr Reed's bullets in my 17-204 at 4120fps they kill really well! Rarely come out if hit solid, glancing shoulder shots will leave BIG holes. You'll need a 9 twist to stabilize them.

 

[4090Sharps]

I use the 32gr Reed's bullets in my 17-204 at 4120fps they kill really well! Rarely come out if hit solid, glancing shoulder shots will leave BIG holes. You'll need a 9 twist to stabilize them.

Thanks! Hollow point or soft point? I see they have two 32gr bullets.

 

[iamthenick]

I’m fixing to start using my 17hmr for coyotes just based on proximity to neighboring areas. It’s roughly 800 yards to the nearest house but I’m concerned about my 556/6.5 Grendel deflecting/passing through and traveling further than I’d like. My research has led me to 20gr Cci gamepoint or 20gr Hornady xtp, but obviously you’re in a much different velocity bracket. At your velocities they may be way too much.

Ive only shot 1 coyote with a .17hmr but it was with those bullets at around 30 yds or so it knocked him over and he started rolling snd i went for a shot on the other coyote he was coming in with and then he got up and ran off. Never found him. I will be trying .22 mag this year. My WMA is rimfire only for small game

 

[TxLite]

Ive only shot 1 coyote with a .17hmr but it was with those bullets at around 30 yds or so it knocked him over and he started rolling snd i went for a shot on the other coyote he was coming in with and then he got up and ran off. Never found him. I will be trying .22 mag this year. My WMA is rimfire only for small game

Well that’s not very encouraging. Where was the shot placement? (So I can avoid that)

 

[Agross]

At 30 yds, and you didn’t go for a head shot? Just an assumption, but why not. I only shoot my 17 out to about 100 yds, the farthest I can see where I hunt, and it is a tack driver.

 

[iamthenick]

At 30 yds, and you didn’t go for a head shot? Just an assumption, but why not. I only shoot my 17 out to about 100 yds, the farthest I can see where I hunt, and it is a tack driver.

He surprised me and was moving in, he was about 10 yds from my caller / decoy. Its very accurate gun but not risking a headshot on a moving target.

Well that’s not very encouraging. Where was the shot placement? (So I can avoid that)

I was broadside and shot for behind the shoulder he was pretty close so i should not have missed far. Definitely hit him hard as it knocked him off his feet. I never found any blood to track either.

Im gonna assume he died but sucks to not find him, he was pretty big with a nice coat.

It was only one time i tried it and i know other people Definitely kill them with .17hmr but i now have a .22 mag barrel for the gun so i might as well use that.

The .17 has dropped every fox i shot right there in its tracks though, not another step.

 

[MTSLW]

Thanks! Hollow point or soft point? I see they have two 32gr bullets.

I've shot both, they perform about the same, the rebated boatail HP is the higher bc bullet. I think it's more like a .29 than the claimed .301 but that's still really high for that small of a bullet. Zeroed at 325yds it's less than 3" off until 375. 500yds is around 15" drop. Much over 300 yds and they'll start to run a little after a good hit but never lost one.

 

[Robinhood21]

I use the 32gr Reed's bullets in my 17-204 at 4120fps they kill really well! Rarely come out if hit solid, glancing shoulder shots will leave BIG holes. You'll need a 9 twist to stabilize them.

Man I wonder when more will be available. Every time I'm on the website they're out of stock...

 

[Hills]

I shoot the 25 berger varmints out of a 17 hornet. Maybe it's the reduced velocity compared to the big 17s but the only messy shots I have had was low in the shoulder joint and a head shot at 20 yds. Most shots are pin hole in and no exits. I shoot red fox and coons with this rifle

 

[aer21]

Blackhole bullets, I use 30gr but he makes a bunch of different weights and calibers.

 

[4090Sharps]

Blackhole bullets, I use 30gr but he makes a bunch of different weights and calibers.

Would you mind sharing some of your experiences with them?

Seeing all of these small shops using Corbin presses, I am having to remind myself that I don’t need to add bullet swaging to my list of hobbies.

 

[aer21]

Sure, no problem. I use these for coyotes out of a 17-204, this is what I started with when I had my first one built. My brother had one built around the same time and he used Nagels 30gr, they are great too but he died in 2023 I think. Not sure what happened to his bullet making stuff. I run them at ~4000fps+-, that seems to be where the magic happens. 3900-4100 seems to be the window. You can run them too fast, my brother was running the 30gr at 4300 and having to shoot coyotes 4-5 times. Too much speed and it was surface splashing. As far as performance, the thing that continually surprises me is how well it kills. Like it’ll drop a coyote seemingly like a 22-250. Just collapses them. The whole point for us was putting up fur with no or very little stitching. And these will go through a shoulder without wrecking anything. Blackhole seems to be one of the few good ones still available. I have heard Don Unmissig makes some great ones too, and he does a bunch of different stuff but I haven’t tried his 17 bullets. I’m using his 38gr .204 in my .204 but haven’t killed any coyotes with it yet. Does that help?

 

[4090Sharps]

Sure, no problem. I use these for coyotes out of a 17-204, this is what I started with when I had my first one built. My brother had one built around the same time and he used Nagels 30gr, they are great too but he died in 2023 I think. Not sure what happened to his bullet making stuff. I run them at ~4000fps+-, that seems to be where the magic happens. 3900-4100 seems to be the window. You can run them too fast, my brother was running the 30gr at 4300 and having to shoot coyotes 4-5 times. Too much speed and it was surface splashing. As far as performance, the thing that continually surprises me is how well it kills. Like it’ll drop a coyote seemingly like a 22-250. Just collapses them. The whole point for us was putting up fur with no or very little stitching. And these will go through a shoulder without wrecking anything. Blackhole seems to be one of the few good ones still available. I have heard Don Unmissig makes some great ones too, and he does a bunch of different stuff but I haven’t tried his 17 bullets. I’m using his 38gr .204 in my .204 but haven’t killed any coyotes with it yet. Does that help?

Yes, thank you! That's exactly the sort of information I was hoping for. I already ordered some 25gr V-max bullets to play around with, and think I'll be giving these Blackhole bullets a try as well.

 

[bbassi]

I've shot the Berger 25 gr varmint for years out of my 17 Remington at about 4000fps. As said previously, glancing or bone shots will explode on contact, but a solid hit in the boiler room rarely results in an exit even on fox. I process my own fur and on fox I usually only find fragments of copper against the off side skin. Did I mention I hate stitching? If you want the most fur friendly fox round, hunt with a 22mag, but good luck on the mountain lions.

On coyotes those varmint's are like the hand of God turning out the lights. Dead before they hit the ground.

 

[bbassi]

The ballistics for the 25gr Hornady Vmax look great, but I'm concerned about them being a bit too explosive on the entrance.

I can tell you from personal experience stay away from those Vmax. They shoot very well, but are made to turn prairie dogs into red mist. They will make you cry if you shoot them for fur though.

 

[4090Sharps]

I've shot the Berger 25 gr varmint for years out of my 17 Remington at about 4000fps. As said previously, glancing or bone shots will explode on contact, but a solid hit in the boiler room rarely results in an exit even on fox. I process my own fur and on fox I usually only find fragments of copper against the off side skin. Did I mention I hate stitching? If you want the most fur friendly fox round, hunt with a 22mag, but good luck on the mountain lions.

On coyotes those varmint's are like the hand of God turning out the lights. Dead before they hit the ground.

Wow! Nice fur collection there. All from a single season?

If you have any solid resources or tips that you'd like to share or have previously shared elsewhere for fur processing, I am very interested.