Fowling shots and barrel corrosion

[Sawtoothsteve]

Greetings,

I'm fairly new to muzzle loading, and primarily use as a secondary weapon for a late season hunt when the archery season doesn't pan out to hopefully avoid tag soup. Well, the archery hunt didn't work out this year, so I'm at the muzzle loader bench right now to prep for a November hunt. I've had a few shooting sessions with a new bullet that I'm getting better consistency out of my Traditions Vortek rifle than I have found before, but consistency doesn't seem to show up until between 4 and 6 fowling shots.

This brings me to the question of fowling the gun before the hunt and how long I can/should go before I give the barrel a good cleaning? Reading through some older posts, it seems a fowling shot is common and recommended, cleaning the barrel after each shooting session a must, and yet some report leaving the gun "charged" for months with no ill effect on shooting, but if that were "left over" from a hunt, I would assume a fowling shot had also occurred. I would love to hear from some more knowledgeable on the subject. Can I fowl the barrel and leave it alone for several days or even weeks without a worry?

For reference, I am shooting a western legal Traditions Vortek LDR with stainless and cerekote barrel. I am shooting 90 gr Triple 7 FFFG and a 420gr No Excuses lead conical with a musket cap for ignition.

Any input would be super appreciated.

Steve

 

[GMB54-120]

Traditions Vortek LDR with stainless and cerekote barrel.

Never seen that model in stainless. Only seen it offered in stainless colored Cerakote.

 

[nphunter]

Personally I don’t foul my barrel and prefer to keep it clean if I shoot it’s getting cleaned that day. I have never had a misfire not firing any caps either prior to loading. As corrosive as 777 is in a gun I just don’t really see how it would be worth it to keep it fouled for a couple week long season. How accurate is accurate and how much does it improve, you’re not competition shooting and don’t have to be shooting MOA to hunt. I would think if you’re hunting with the western version and open sights the you will be the limiting factor not the fouled barrel.

 

[Sawtoothsteve]

NPHunting, thanks for the reply. To be more specific, the clean barrel shot at a 100 yard target is about 9 inches high and 12 inches right of my groups from a fouled barrel. Shots 2, and 3 are erratic and then it seems to settle in. That's enough for me to even consider cleaning and refouling the barrel daily if that's what's prudent but I would also rather not be shooting before daylight in my hunting area every day....

 

[EdP]

The only MLs I shoot are custom reproduction flintlocks. 3F BP for main charge and prime, no substitutes, patched round ball. Never fire a fouling shot, always clean same day shot is taken. May leave a load in the rifle for weeks if no shot is taken with no issue because no corrosive fouling has been generated. In your situation I suggest working with your projectile/seal combination to eliminate or reduce the difference between the first shot and subsequent shots.

 

[Sawtoothsteve]

The only MLs I shoot are custom reproduction flintlocks. 3F BP for main charge and prime, no substitutes, patched round ball. Never fire a fouling shot, always clean same day shot is taken. May leave a load in the rifle for weeks if no shot is taken with no issue because no corrosive fouling has been generated. In your situation I suggest working with your projectile/seal combination to eliminate or reduce the difference between the first shot and subsequent shots.

Thanks for the tip. I am currently lubing the lead conical with bore butter, and putting a bore butter impregnated felt wad between powder and bullet. Is there a better way of getting a seal?

 

[Rich M]

We used to use car wax on the interior barrel of our MLs to help prevent rust. These days I put Flitz polish on the outside and now want to try it on the inside.

Sawtooth - maybe try a diff conical? I'm surprised that it takes 4 shots to tame your rifle and make it shoot straight.

 

[EdP]

I agree with Rich M. Try a different bullet, Usually 1 shot is all it takes, but the traditional ML shooters that take a fouling shot before a match don't load anything but powder for that fouling shot.

How are you lubing your felt wads? I soak mine in melted Crisco for use in a smoothbore.

 

[Sawtoothsteve]

Thanks EdP. I'm lubing my felt wads by rubbing bore butter into them.

So far I've shot 8 different bullets from 4 different manufacturers at 80, 90, 100, and 110gr charges. The no excuses 420gr with 90gr charge seem the best, but only after the fouling shots as described above. My level of frustration even has me considering a new rifle, but if fouling the barrel once (3 shots) for a 3 day hunt isn't going to ruin the gun, I'm probably OK for this upcoming hunt but that's the big question.... can I leave the barrel for at least 3 days? If so, then I'll deal with the gun issue in the off-season.

 

[49ereric]

I don’t hunt with my muzzle loaders but before shooting I take alcohol patches to the barrel and remove oil and take out the nipple and do the same Then fire a couple of caps and load. Nothing to corrode if it sat for a month if I hunted.
practice the first shot from a clean barrel repeatedly and then see where the 2nd shot hits if different in case you need a follow up shot when hunting.

 

[07yzryder]

Not ML but may xfer across as I'm new to the ML game as well. Watched an erik cortina video where speedy used a patch of a lockeeze (graphite suspended solution) down the barrel to simulate a fouling shot by putting a layer of graphite down. Wonder if that would help Iin this situation.

 

[Wrench]

Thanks EdP. I'm lubing my felt wads by rubbing bore butter into them.

So far I've shot 8 different bullets from 4 different manufacturers at 80, 90, 100, and 110gr charges. The no excuses 420gr with 90gr charge seem the best, but only after the fouling shots as described above. My level of frustration even has me considering a new rifle, but if fouling the barrel once (3 shots) for a 3 day hunt isn't going to ruin the gun, I'm probably OK for this upcoming hunt but that's the big question.... can I leave the barrel for at least 3 days? If so, then I'll deal with the gun issue in the off-season.

Take your charge down to 75 and see what happens.

I have 3 rifles that shoot the 495 no excuses and every single one shoots better with lighter charges of 777.

For reference, my knight just pushed the 495 with 80grs 777 to 1365 and 75 gave me 1340.

If it takes being half fouled to shoot....it's probably not THE load to settle on.

 

[OXN939]

Can I fowl the barrel and leave it alone for several days or even weeks without a worry?

I am shooting Triple 7 FFFG

Even the least corrosive BP substitutes will start to corrode a barrel pretty quickly. There is no penalty for cleaning your bore between each shot. If you do this, you can obtain consistent groups and also not have to worry about damaging your firearm.

 

[Sawtoothsteve]

Not ML but may xfer across as I'm new to the ML game as well. Watched an erik cortina video where speedy used a patch of a lockeeze (graphite suspended solution) down the barrel to simulate a fouling shot by putting a layer of graphite down. Wonder if that would help Iin this situation.

That's an interesting idea. I'll keep that trick in mind if this weekend's shooting is a bust.

 

[Sawtoothsteve]

Take your charge down to 75 and see what happens.

I have 3 rifles that shoot the 495 no excuses and every single one shoots better with lighter charges of 777.

For reference, my knight just pushed the 495 with 80grs 777 to 1365 and 75 gave me 1340.

If it takes being half fouled to shoot....it's probably not THE load to settle on.

I'll give this a go tomorrow and see how it goes.

 

[Sawtoothsteve]

I don’t hunt with my muzzle loaders but before shooting I take alcohol patches to the barrel and remove oil and take out the nipple and do the same Then fire a couple of caps and load. Nothing to corrode if it sat for a month if I hunted.
practice the first shot from a clean barrel repeatedly and then see where the 2nd shot hits if different in case you need a follow up shot when hunting.

Going to try fouling with caps tomorrow and see how it goes.

I really appreciate everyone's input. Definitely a couple ideas for me to try. Hoping tomorrow's shooting finds success to report!

 

[Underclocked]

If you swab clean and dry the bore then allow the barrel to cool to ambient after each shot. What kind of group do you get?
I would also check about some bore-riding conicals lubed with a modern lube such as used by Bullshop or NoExcuses. Using Bore Butter for anything in a modern rifle makes me wince.

 

[FrontierGander]

If you need to fire 6 rounds before you gun is accurate, I'd find a new load.

 

[ElDiablito]

Everyone I know hunts on a fouled barrel. I wouldn’t worry about fouling with 777 over a short period of time (couple of days). If you end up with a little corrosion it likely won’t noticeably affect your accuracy anyway. Good news is you can toss the Traditions rifle if accuracy does go south on you and buy something else.

 

[Sawtoothsteve]

Good news! Got out this morning just before sunrise in dead calm air. Fouled clean barrel with two caps, then loaded with same load I had good luck with on a fouled barrel. First shot/cold barrel and I bulls-eyed. Thanks all for the input. I think I'm on the right track and feeling much more confident for the hunt in a couple weeks.

With appreciation,

Steve